RESTO- Soul of the Forest or Tree of Life?

[AngryToilet 0]

I've tried both and can't decide what is better. I find Tree of Life eats my mana more over the course of a fight. Any advice either way is appreciated.

[Pinkis 12]

Personally I use tree of life. It's not best for every fight, but as for example I use it every transition on imperator fight, as this phase requires a lot of healing, and you're going to spend ton of mana anyway, so Tree actually saves it. If you're popping tree and just spaming regrowth - yeah, that sux. However not every fight requires such healing and maybe for fights like spore SoTF would be more usefull. 

[AngryToilet 0]

Thanks for the advice. Anyone else care to give input? I see tons of people viewing this topic but only 1 reply.

[Brady84 4]

To get the most benefit from SOTF do you not pretty much have to spam WG on cooldown, which takes a ton of mana to do anyway, and then depending on overheal is actually less mana efficient than using rejuv

 

ITOL, is either an "oh sh**" cooldown so your raid doesnt wipe, or you use it smart on rejuv/wild growth, unless somebodys going to die or i'm sitting under the blue mushroom on brack I never use the instant cast RG because blasting 6k mana a second is suicide 

 

Tbh I'd say if you prefer SOTF then stick with it, but IMO for most fights ITOL is better especially if your using germ at lv100 

 

Suppose a lot of it also depends on what talent(s) you take at 90 & 100 as well

Edited January 20, 2015 by Brady84

[AngryToilet 0]

I appriciate the input.

[sonie 7]

Soul of the Forest goes almost hand in hand with Dream of Cenarius. It's a combination that definitely is underrated.

 

I use Soul of the Forest:

Kargath - Short fight

Brackenspore 

Twins(together with DoC) 

Tectus(together with DoC) - Spam wrath always, and use WG for every aoe. This means you will have good mana for the last phase, where you can actually use Genesis because last phase should only last around 1min max.

Imperator Mar'gok(together with DoC) - Very long fight, where you will use Wild Growth for every arcane add AoE, every force nova, and pretty much on cooldown in the Intermission phases.

 

Next reset I am also going to try out SOTF together with DoC on Ko'ragh.

[Terrazen 0]

Hi All,

The TL;DR is that I use SotF + Rampant Growth with unglyphed regrowth.  I say I've played before, why/when/how this combination is interesting, ask for advice and ask not to be flamed :P

So...

I just wanted to post my thoughts/experiments on this exact question... and get any input I can [like the original poster, I imagine?]...

I've been in the minority in using SotF since it was only a 50% haste buff to the follow-up spell - which was usually to swiftmend+wildgrowth... ...

Back then when Tree of Life had the ability to lifebloom multiple targets and before they fixed moment of clarity procs

I don't even know what I was thinking - looking back....?

Oh wait!  I was *pissed off* that Tree of Life was no longer our permanent form - so I think part of my protest was on principle - lol :P

Anyway, been gone awhile, missed the glyph for efflorescence on shrooms instead of swiftmend [which is now "baked in"] as well as the overhealing -> charging wild mushrooms...

Coming back to WoD I noticed some sad changes... Goodbye detonating mushrooms, nourish, and innervate [when did we lose *you*, old friend?]...

Yet there were also some interesting changes [yay 1 stack lifebloom/no haste breakpoints]... and level 100 talents as well!

In a nutshell, depending on the content you're looking at, whether it's 5 mans or 25... most fights have light and heavy periods of healing.  Tree of Life is good for when those line up around the 3 minute mark and arguably a better choice for those fights...

But - I noticed that SotF now:

- halves Healing Touch cast time [not that interesting - a half-mana regrowth at best? - most people use regrowth with glyph instead... right?]

- +50% healing on next Wild Growth [essentially what it was when I first took SotF]

- +100% aka double healing on next Rejuvenation or *REGROWTH*...

So... every 15 seconds you can pump the utility of *one* of those spells... If AoE is going out - SM + Wild Growth - Need a big heal on the tank - drop SM then a double power Regrowth - Not so crazy damage - SM + Rejuv... or perhaps hold off for a few seconds for a better opportunity or to save some mana?

You get the idea.

It would be *cool* if we could do it more often though... right?

Like with the level 100 talent: Rampant [Re]Growth???

So... it takes the CD off of swiftmend but it *costs you* a HoT [regrowth or rejuv only]...

Also - I believe you are normally able to swiftmend someone elses target [but not now - which would matter with multi-druid situations]?

So I use an unglyphed regrowth which gives me 12 seconds on the target I hit to drop a swiftmend on them and then pop
another "amplified" spell [dependent on situations like above].  The healing lost from clipping the (regrowth) HoT is fairly negligible imho, but the utility is there.  Regrowth has 60% crit already - and with 10-20% crit that brings it up to "mostly critting" - I guess I've just accepted this as "good enough" to get the HoT benefit....

I'm not going into *all* the possibilities - but with this combination I've been able to - in certain situations - pull some pretty high single target throughput by swiftmend + regrowth [200% + soon to be consumed HoT] + swiftmend + regrowth [200%] + ... until that person is no longer in danger of imminent death...

Rampant Growth is also useful in clipping [with a swiftmend] a rejuv that's about to expire anyway and apply a double-strength rejuv to follow (or whatever the situation demands)...

At any rate - I'm late back to WoW and I'm not doing any serious progression raiding at this time.  Perhaps regrowth not being a guaranteed crit *alone* would make this combination infeasible?  Or going OoM if abused?  With clearcasting procs and the normal HoT's in our arsenal, I've been able to conserve a fair amount of mana in times of less healing and while SM requires some damage to heal and a present regrowth/rejuv [from damage already being healed], it is a nice option to have when it "hits the fan" - whether by mechanic or mistake...

Insofar as the Dream of Cenarius is concerned - I tried to play with it on recommendations from icyveins and the valid concerns around mana with SotF - but I found that either I was too busy healing/moving/etc for more than 1 or 2 casts here and there [which is fine, I suppose, because that's still *free* healing that lets you get your mana back] - but I would rather just let my HoT ticks, clearcasting procs, and mana pots [1 min CD - right?] carry me through the lows so I can take Heart of the Wild.  At a 6 minute CD - it's a 1 use item - except for longer fights - but it lasts 45 seconds and it is a 35% increase that when you *need* throughput [anytime you'd pop hero/bloodlust *usually*] you have it.

So I'm playing with this personally, and it addresses the healing lows and highs that I see on most fights quite nicely, so far.  One thing to note is that swiftmend will *always* prefer the regrowth tick over rejuv - for better or for worse - from the limited testing I've done.

If there has been other discussion on this topic in other places, could someone please post links?

I signed up just to respond with my thoughts to this question - after reading for advices/maths/tips/etc first, of course :)

Please *don't* flame - please *do* critique - I'm just trying to add to this conversation - it's one of the questions I have been trying to answer since I came back for Warlords.

Thank you for reading [sorry for the long post - I TL;DR'd like a good boy though, lol] :)


 

[AngryToilet 0]

Great post Terrazen. Lots of good things to consider. I still have not decided which is better between Tree of Life and Soul of the Forest. I suppose it's just a matter of what boss I'm on. On that note, is there anyone reading this that has their talents/glyphs situated per boss fight? If so, could you list what combination you use for each boss in Highmaul?

[Ivie 0]

Both are amazing. They each have their benefits. Healing as a resto druid is excessively situational. I used to only run Soul of the Forest due to its versatility. However, the day i sat down to really analyze my character i made a shocking discovery. I was confining my utility and overall healing done per encounter to one of the two playstyles a druid has. Before I begin to explain MY perspective on this topic, please note that the difference between an average resto and an exceptional resto lies in your awareness. Do you have a rogue in your group that doesn't cloak of shadows magic damage? Do you have a death knight that doesn't AMS magic damage? Does your balance druid forget to barkskin on koraghs fire? All of these things punish you if they are not executed. Whether your a raid leader or not, know your raids cooldowns. Don't overlap ironbark with a shield wall, etc.

Benefits of SotF:

SotF + Glyph of Wild Growth + a casted Wild Growth = 150% effective WG on 6 targets for 8% mana. The +50% from SotF and additional target from the glyph help maximize the healing potential for the mana spent. Only cast Wild Growth if SotF is proc'd.

SotF + Nature's Swiftness + a casted Regrowth = 200% effective Regrowth with a higher living seed proc immediately. This is a MASSIVE heal, perfect for moments when a tank gets absolutely slammed. This can nearly heal tanks from 15% to 85-90% in a global.

SotF + Rejuvenation = in theory a third rejuv on the target (assuming you run germination). The 100% effectiveness of your next rejuv is great for moments in which 5 or less players need healing, and you don't need to wild growth. This makes it so the person you rejuv with the SotF proc requires a little less atention for the time being, freeing up a fraction of your time to do something different, depending on how the situation plays out. SotF is a better choice for long fights, ones that require longevity and mechanics, instead of burst healing.

Benefits of Incarnation: Tree of Life:

ToL is a game changer. It's a cooldown used to output massive healing for less mana than initially required, for short burst moments. This helps to counter massive aoe damage from bosses. Please take note, to effectively use this as a raid cooldown without raping your mana, you MUST pair it with Nature's Vigil! Most people believe that because regrowth is instant with this cooldown, you should spam it. FALSE! ToL + NV + Rejuvenation is not only a fraction of yoir mana cost now, but each rejuv you're applying to an individual is healing another individual closeby due to NV. It also gains the inherent 15% increase from ToL. Applying multiple rejuvs on multiple targets with ToL + NV going to make every tick, from every player, heal another player. This is a continuous loop of cycling rejuv ticks. Pair this with a single Wild Growth (especially if glyphed) and you just bought yoursself another Tranq, essentially. This is amazing for fights like Mythic Butcher where people are getting continuously slammed. If you execute this properly, you save mana in the long run, and you get an additional burst AoE heal. I can't stress enough, do NOT spam Regrowth! Only Regrowth if you absolutely have to! NV + ToL + a single wild growth + rejuv spam should be MORE than enough to soar in hps and keep your raid alive during aoe heavy periods. The main goal of this combo is to be able to do this instead of tranqing, so you have tranquility when it's needed most. Tranquility is so valuable you ONLY want to use it during the HIGHEST periods of raidwide damage.

[AngryToilet 0]

Ivie, great points. Some I never thought about. Especially the last paragraph about Tree of Life. I must admit when I pop ToL I can't resist spamming regrowth because the point of popping ToL is in dire situations where everyone is low health. I will definitely try the Wild Growth/Rejuv spam instead. Thanks!!

Edited January 23, 2015 by AngryToilet

[Ivie 0]

Try not to spam Wild Growth too much though, as it can rape your mana as well, try to limit your casts on it.

 

For further advice refer to my guide on my guild website. It covers Talents / Glyphs and why each talent is great. Also has a sick wild mushroom macro. It also goes more in depth with numbers for each talent / glyph

 

http://fotmguild.info/forum/m/27531097/viewthread/18175219-resto-getting-most-out-your-talents-glyphs-sotf

 

this may also help as well, potentially:

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/eitrigg/Ivie/advanced

Edited January 23, 2015 by Ivie

[Terrazen 0]

Hi again thread,

 

It's been a few days since a reply on here, and for my part I just wanted to contribute a couple things to anyone finding this thread via google or anything else.

 

I enjoyed the discussion in the few posts here, but a note to ivie:

 

You do not have sufficient access to view this page. No view access.
 

Is what greets people when they attempt to access your first link.  It would have been great to see the advice, but not worth creating an account on a guilds server just to view 1 post.

 

If you could summarize or repost here that would be great!

 

Also - a couple more things:

 

PTR Patch Notes for 6.1 [19533] - Tons of stuff - but TL;DR is:

Rampant Growth now increases Swiftmend heal by 20%
Naturalist Talent now increases damage of resto druids spells & abilities by 15% - Relevant to DoC/NV/HotW decisions perhaps?

A [currently 26 page] thread discussing *all kinds of resto druid-y goodness*, with many contributors and spirited discussion... I found it when looking at the haste vs mastery question - but completely missed it when looking for SotF vs ToL - which may be attributable to my mediocre google-fu

I'm linking to the part where I first found another running unglyphed regrowth/rampant growth/SotF - but ToL/Germination are definitely covered there too, with DoC and NV discussion, which fights people have used which specs, etc, etc, etc...
 

Thanks to AngryToilet for starting this thread and everyone who contributed.  I definitely recommend that thread on MMO-Champion that I linked above if you have anymore questions or input.  It seems to be a very lively thread with much discussion

Edited January 27, 2015 by Terrazen

[sonie 7]

I don't see how this RG buff is going to make it any more viable, Germination still too good.

 

The 15% damage buff will make Dream of Cenarius even better, and definitely is something that is underrated together with SotF WG spam, also buffing haste slightly more ahead of mastery since mastery doesn't scale with DoC.

 

The damage part of hotw got slightly nerfed also.

[Krazyito 521]

If i did math right, it seems that damage inside HotW has been nerfed by 10%, while damage outside has been buffed by 15%.

[AngryToilet 0]

I've been using the SotF/DoC combo for a few weeks now and I really like it. I enjoy being about to use Wrath to heal with during times of minimal raidwide damage. My number seem to be good too. I think it's pretty comparable to the Tree of Life method. So my conclusion is that's it's completely a play-style preference. In some cases the mechanics of a boss will require ToL though.