Prot: Why is haste the #2 stat?

[kitae 0]

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/protection-paladin-pve-tank-statistics-priority

 

The explanation given for haste's value is:

 

Haste increases your Holy Power generation slightly, thanks to  Sanctity of Battle. It also improves your DPS and threat.

 

So defensively, this lets you use shield of the righteous (and world of glory) more often. 

 

Mastery's in comparison

Mastery, thanks to  Mastery: Divine Bulwark, increases your chance to block attacks and your attack power, as well as increasing the gain from both of the effects of  Shield of the Righteous. It is, therefore, a direct increase of your survivability.

 

Passive block chance plus increased effectiveness of shield of the righteous.

 

Mastery sounds more useful, would love some context on comparative value of haste to mastery and in what cases would a paladin tank choose haste over mastery (if all the time, an explanation why).

 

Thank you. 

[Ferathir 0]

Hi there, kitae!

There are several things that Sanctity of Battle does not cover in the tooltip provided. (A lot of "under the hood" workings going on..!) For instance, Sacred Shield, which is one of the most optimal 3rd tier (level 45) talents, benefits from Haste! It reduces the refresh rate of the absorb effect provided by Sacred Shield translating into more mitigation (and therefore more survival.) It can also indirectly compliment your seals, particularly Seal of Insight. Faster melee means more chances at the self-heal that it provides-- in turn providing you with more survival!

 

To cover why Haste has become so important: Prior to the hotfix applied on the 12th, Sacred Duty increased Haste by 5% from all sources. But Sacred Duty now provides 30% more Haste from all sources. Furthermore, the following change was provided: "The Haste stat is now 11.1% more effective. For example, characters at level 100 now receive a 1% increase per 90 Haste (up from 1% per 100 Haste.)" These changes have secured Haste's spot as the #1 secondary stat.

 

In my personal experience, I have found that the survival and threat provided by Haste is now far greater than that of Mastery's due to the reasons stated above-- it is simply more effective! We have received several blows to our overall damage output, but Haste sees to it that we remain somewhat relevant in the matter. While Mastery may provide several uses, it becomes limited by its very design. Whereas Haste encompasses many abilities (and we receive so much of it, now!)

 

You could say that that the more frequent use of abilities is far more efficient than increasing the effectiveness of some by a small portion. But don't count Mastery out! It is still an excellent stat that deserves some focus and praise! Were it to be present in any gear piece that lacked Mastery, I would certainly take it over any other!

[Elarion 6]

30% bonus haste feels insane for me, but i am not prot-pally(GIVE IT FOR MY HOLY PAL!!!).

[Lev 0]

With the last hotfix, haste got buffed again to where it was in MoP.

That does not mean, that the other stats got worse. In fact, mastery gets buffed (back to MoP state actually) again, since the whole point of haste being useful in terms of mitigation results out of a higher uptime of SotR (more mastery = more dmg reduction during uptimes).

All combined with more dps output and faster stacking of "Bastion of Glory" (for decent self-healing) results in a first place for haste.

[Karthauzi 0]

Hello,

 

I just readded all my gems and enchants from mastery to haste, it feels now like im getting more dmg now, regardless if im using Shield of the Righteous or not.

There is a significant survivability-loss for me switching gems and enchants from mastery to haste.

 

Why?

[Ferathir 0]

Hello,

 

I just readded all my gems and enchants from mastery to haste, it feels now like im getting more dmg now, regardless if im using Shield of the Righteous or not.

There is a significant survivability-loss for me switching gems and enchants from mastery to haste.

 

Why?

Hello, Karthauzi!

Sorry, but without any logs and character sheets to look at it will be incredibly difficult to understand why you seem to be taking extra damage. One thing I will say is that Mastery DOES provide more PASSIVE mitigation. But as far as overall mitigation goes, Haste is superior. Whenever possible, provide combat logs and your armory so that we may further analyze what the situation is! :)

[Karthauzi 0]

Hello Ferathir, thank you for your reply!

 

Here is my Armory Character:

 

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/antonidas/Olivier/simple

 

how i make a battlelog? which addon can do that?

 

As Example: it feels like in heroic, im taking much more damage from the fire (twins) with all gems and enchants on haste, so i reckon, mastery gives me much additional protection vs magic damage.

I think the Holy Shield talent works together with mastery in that case.

 

I am correctly using my cd´s when i m taking damage or prepare to getting much damage where Healers cant reach me to heal or cant heal me enough.

 

Greetings from Germany

Edited January 28, 2015 by Karthauzi

[Orthios 271]

Hello Ferathir, thank you for your reply!

 

Here is my Armory Character:

 

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/antonidas/Olivier/simple

 

how i make a battlelog? which addon can do that?

 

As Example: it feels like in heroic, im taking much more damage from the fire (twins) with all gems and enchants on haste, so i reckon, mastery gives me much additional protection vs magic damage.

I think the Holy Shield talent works together with mastery in that case.

 

I am correctly using my cd´s when i m taking damage or prepare to getting much damage where Healers cant reach me to heal or cant heal me enough.

 

Greetings from Germany

https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/4681-how-to-upload-your-own-logs-to-warcraft-logs/

Krazyito did a pretty good write up of how to do logs, and covers pretty much everything you need to know about how to create and upload them.

[Karthauzi 0]

Hey, thanks for the link.

 

I hope i done it right:

 

here is my log, hc dungeon, last boss fight.

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6PwX7gb8zmB3kaJF

 

I think you cant see anything on this log but my rotation, what sort of log is best for what u need?

 

EDIT:

 

I have a new problem + to this one, so i got 2.

 

Today i was raiding again 6/7 normal and hc 1/7, the deathknight had problems to keep his aggro...Why? i dont used my spot ability, and he looses aggro 70% the time, i was forced to use only 2 abilities, crusader strike, judgment and sometimes shield of the righteous.

That was not the first time tanks mentioned me that, specially deathknights? Maybe they buffed haste to much so i do much more damage and aggro?

Edited January 28, 2015 by Karthauzi

[WesleyGunder 0]

Hey, thanks for the link.

 

I hope i done it right:

 

here is my log, hc dungeon, last boss fight.

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6PwX7gb8zmB3kaJF

 

I think you cant see anything on this log but my rotation, what sort of log is best for what u need?

 

EDIT:

 

I have a new problem + to this one, so i got 2.

 

Today i was raiding again 6/7 normal and hc 1/7, the deathknight had problems to keep his aggro...Why? i dont used my spot ability, and he looses aggro 70% the time, i was forced to use only 2 abilities, crusader strike, judgment and sometimes shield of the righteous.

That was not the first time tanks mentioned me that, specially deathknights? Maybe they buffed haste to much so i do much more damage and aggro?

Oh boy a lot of issues.... It appears too me that you have a damage build rather then a survival build if I where you, I would Start by change your SW talent for DP, and lose the final Wrath and Alabastor shield glyths. On the subject of a damage build is a double edged sword meaning  that while it makes your DPS high it does it at a cost too survivabillity. In your case you would benifit to have around 3 to 4% more Mastery before raid buff so that you get your block up to at least too 40% when your using might or other raid buff to Mastery.

 

Note the reason I suggest DP over SW cause it will give you free procs of your SoTR too get your 5 stacks up faster and more Damage mitagation.

 

As for the tank swap and Aggro issue most of the time that is ether you or the other tank not knowing their class and taunting at the wrong time. IE our Averger Sheild is one of our taunting spells! Other possibillity is that if your ilvl is higher then his it will be difficult for him too taunt off of you!

 

So for your stats gemming and enchanting for haste is still the right answer just get rid of the pvp gear and get more raid gear that has more Haste and Mastery, and make sure you have Bonus Armor on all your gear as possible since Bonus Armor is are true top stat. if you have trouble getting that gear try through your Garrison Missions, instead of PVP.

[Karthauzi 0]

Hi WesleyGunder,

 

i got a block chance of 41,82% with blessing on might activated.

 

There is only 1 pvp piece (shoulders) and that gives me crit and mastery.

 

Im trying now dp instead of sw and use holy wrath as filler or when i need to stun etc...

 

i changed now alabastor shield gylph to glyph of Hand of Sacrifice and glyph of Final Wrath to glyph of Holy Wrath.

 

now u can check me if it is better http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/antonidas/Olivier/simple

 

Im using glyph of Divine Protection only on only melee bosses like butcher now. (glyph switching)

 

There are no other good glyphes i can maybe use to improve my tank paladin.

 

Greetings from Germany

 

EDIT:

 

dp is a HUGE increase of my survivability in context with the much haste, i got now 80 - 90% uptime of shield of the righteous!! Sometimes i get so fast i can click it 3 times  behind one another.

 

Never thought chances can be so good.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Karthauzi

[WesleyGunder 0]

Hi WesleyGunder,

 

i got a block chance of 41,82% with blessing on might activated.

 

There is only 1 pvp piece (shoulders) and that gives me crit and mastery.

 

Im trying now dp instead of sw and use holy wrath as filler or when i need to stun etc...

 

i changed now alabastor shield gylph to glyph of Hand of Sacrifice and glyph of Final Wrath to glyph of Holy Wrath.

 

now u can check me if it is better http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/antonidas/Olivier/simple

 

Im using glyph of Divine Protection only on only melee bosses like butcher now. (glyph switching)

 

There are no other good glyphes i can maybe use to improve my tank paladin.

 

Greetings from Germany

 

EDIT:

 

dp is a HUGE increase of my survivability in context with the much haste, i got now 80 - 90% uptime of shield of the righteous!! Sometimes i get so fast i can click it 3 times  behind one another.

 

Never thought chances can be so good.

Also if you want more Stuns you can use the Glyth of Dazing Shield but otherwise no there isn't any better glyths.