BRF and Cataclysm

[Recklessfear 33]

BTW, next week I am running Cata on Thorgar and I dont give a shit what anybody says!  I wanna see some Pad numbers, the boss is not progression anymore

 

It's not pad damage...that fight is based around killing the adds quickly...

[Nyanchan 2]

I strongly disagree about darmac, the ads are a priority and they will be tanked next to the boss, if you spec into cata and manaroths you can always have 1 of those skills for each call of the pack, this gives you plenty of room to be "the room cleaner" as in using the chaos waves + either cata or manaroths fury with immolation aura while being able to keep all spears dotted with doom and corruption and all the fury you will be generating allows you to use soulfire all the time instead of shadowbolt on the boss. Plus this makes other raid members able to focus boss more easily and phases advance incredibly quick (since everyone is mostly tunneling the boss only) 

[Recklessfear 33]

I strongly disagree about darmac, the ads are a priority and they will be tanked next to the boss, if you spec into cata and manaroths you can always have 1 of those skills for each call of the pack, this gives you plenty of room to be "the room cleaner" as in using the chaos waves + either cata or manaroths fury with immolation aura while being able to keep all spears dotted with doom and corruption and all the fury you will be generating allows you to use soulfire all the time instead of shadowbolt on the boss. Plus this makes other raid members able to focus boss more easily and phases advance incredibly quick (since everyone is mostly tunneling the boss only) 

 

You're allowed to disagree, but you're wrong.

 

Pack adds aren't a high priority at all on darmac.

[Nyanchan 2]

You're allowed to disagree, but you're wrong.

 

Pack adds aren't a high priority at all on darmac.

 

Every single guide ive read or seen states that beasts should be aoed down when they appear, (wow-head, icy-veins, youtube videos), on mythic they gain blood scent periodically. Why would you neglect using a super heavy hitting aoe spell?

[Recklessfear 33]

Every single guide ive read or seen states that beasts should be aoed down when they appear, (wow-head, icy-veins, youtube videos), on mythic they gain blood scent periodically. Why would you neglect using a super heavy hitting aoe spell?

 

 

Because HoG+all your friends is enough to kill them. They don't have THAT much hp.

 

And HoG is going to give you plenty of Fury to go into more DBs on the boss.

[Vixcis 0]

My opinion :

About Thogar, I would still go DB, because in the end you don t need to kill the small adds that quickly, you just have to burst targets down (the boss, the big dispellable add that pops with the half train and the turrets).

Maybe go for supremacy but saving the CW for the little adds seem allright.

Maybe won t be the same in MM.

I don t see myself using cataclysm on any other fights except maybe for the Maidens. We ll see the logs with the updated gear !

Rip mobility, long live lifetap

[Soulzar 42]

Darmac Add waves are way too frequent to have Cata be a reliable contributor each wave.  Every lock I watched in the mythic kills were spamming 2-3 CW on each pack and they were dead.... and still had the superior ST of Demonbolt.  Cata is overkill, and Mannoroths is meh when you consider how strong AD is for demo.  You take Mannoroths and you won't even have DS for every Cata...

 

Thogar would just be for fun.  Adds die way to fast to ever think Cata is a needed talent.

[Liquidsteel 279]

I tried Cata for like 2 pulls yesterday on Darmac, wasn't a big fan. As Soulzar said, they spawn too fast, and HoG / CW is more than enough damage on them.

 

I opted for Demonbolt, and ended up topping boss damage. I'll link the kill below. Wasn't a stellar performance, however we only had like 7 or 8 wipes as it's a fairly easy boss, so didn't have long to perfect it.

 

[Vile 9]

That's some crazy celebrating at the end Shizwix, keep your boys in line!

[Nyanchan 2]

Darmac Add waves are way too frequent to have Cata be a reliable contributor each wave.  Every lock I watched in the mythic kills were spamming 2-3 CW on each pack and they were dead.... and still had the superior ST of Demonbolt.  Cata is overkill, and Mannoroths is meh when you consider how strong AD is for demo.  You take Mannoroths and you won't even have DS for every Cata...

 

Thogar would just be for fun.  Adds die way to fast to ever think Cata is a needed talent.

 

glyph of darksoul + mannoroths hits almost all the spears that are currently alive as well as a side effect.

 

Cata is not needed and im sure it would be ok with just demonbolt but it feels better for me to always have the room clean of shit while others tunnel boss.

 

but also darmac is easy so it shouldnt matter much which you choose

Edited February 13, 2015 by Nyanchan

[Liquidsteel 279]

You only really need to kill the spears before he mounts Dreadwing, so it's MUCH better to just DoT them up then clean up what's left later on.

 

More Doom and Corruption ticks are far more beneficial to you than getting in AoE damage, and the Fury you save from not using Immolation Aura can go on more Demonbolts / Meta Soul Fires.

[Facade 1]

Is it an addon that does the mouse trail effect, Liquid? It looked nice, easier to keep track of it that way.

[Alkeir 1]

Sorry to necropost, but now that Demonbolt isn't anywhere near as good as it once was with the coming of 6.1, what talents will you guys that previously used DB on fights like Blast Furnace and Beastlord use in place of it?

[Liquidsteel 279]

Cataclysm.

[Liarparadox 5]

Cataclysm.

Don't mean to necro this, but are you still using Cata on BF and Beast?

I'm mostly concerned with BlastF; My raid group tomorrow is doing heroic BlastF and P2 is causing us problems; too many people going aoe spec. While Cata is aoe, it seems to me a legit spec still, making sure to save one for the first elementalist, then off CD the next one. This seems to be what some are suggesting, though a few sources insist it's just padding.

Has anything changed with this? Still cata, or Serv/Serv (I'm not doing Demonbolt; it's too annoying to use that talent now). If Cata is still a legit spec for BF, then do I have the correct idea that it should be used on elementalists? or is the idea to hit the biggest crowd for Fury generation to spam spells in meta?

[Liquidsteel 279]

Yeah don't use it on the huge AoE phase during the transition to p2, save it for the elementalists.

[Anja 0]

This seems to be what some are suggesting, though a few sources insist it's just padding.

 

It is absolutely legitimate for Blast Furnace.

Simply make sure you're using it to hit Elementalists and not wasting the cooldown on padding via adds :P

[spikeysquad 50]

I think all 3 talents can be viable. I personally went for Cata. You get a lot of burst with it for when the Primals' shields are down and then some nice cleave as well at times to keep the adds slightly more under control. In addition all the extra DoTs on targets give you more strength on your priority ones. Good luck. 

[Gruxa 1]

Yeah don't use it on the huge AoE phase during the transition to p2, save it for the elementalists.

 

I guess this will depend on your guild's tactic , won't it?

 

Since they 'nerfed' BF on mythic you can transition very early. Our guild used a tactic where we did all primalists in 2 goes thanks to that early transition, more emphasis on keeping adds dead (aka. I didn't specifically KEEP my cata for primalists)

 

Ofcourse if it's a few seconds of, by all means keep it for the primalists, but I used my cata for the big sweep before P2 though since i knew the 1st primalist was going down in 2 turns

Edited April 15, 2015 by Gruxa

[Liquidsteel 279]

I suppose, but to be honest after the nerf we were able to do 3 elementalists in one go whilst still controlling adds. Firecallers get blown up anyway, and you only ever need to actually debuff 2 of the slags and alternate them for each explosion, meaning you get your Shadow Priest back to DPSing for the entire phase.

 

It worked for you and that's great, but the longer p2 lasts the more hectic the fight gets so I think focussing on the Primals is a better use of cooldowns.

[spikeysquad 50]

Indeed, a heroic level progress kill will be rather different than a mythic kill and/or farm. 

[Soulzar 42]

One of the great advantages to cataclysm on BF is you're not spending as much fury or globals getting doom up on all the cleave adds. This gives you time to focus down targets rather than trying to spread dots for fury.  

 

Guild got first pulls in last night.  Didn't feel too bad.  I quite liked the fight, especially the opener :P

[Liarparadox 5]

We downed Heroic BF last night on 4th attempt. Cata on elementalists seemed to work well for us. My overall dps seemed kinda lame, but I had OK dmg on the elementalist and slags so I'm happy with that. But I felt like I was running around like a chicken with my head cut off. Anyone mind linking a log that is a good representation of what a cata lock log should look like where the cata is being saved for elementalist?

I should probably know this, but does 2pc trigger on CW?

[HeadBeeGuy 11]

Hey Liar, thanks for helping carry my guild through Maidens last night. Here are some logs of some skilled warlocks playing Cata on BF:

Mythic: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/X9VHy6QhagRDKTCY#fight=45&type=damage-done

Heroic: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tjBGgbJ4WdyLkvPR#fight=40&type=damage-done

While the heroic parse likely included some padding because Midwinter and overgearing, you can see 3 of the 4 elementalists hit with Cata (2 w/DS up). It makes up a smaller % of their damage due to 4-pc Chaos Waves, but I feel these are pretty indicative of how BF should be played.

As far as I know, 2-pc does indeed proc from CW: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/16201079985?page=1

Old post, but I believe the information is still valid.

[Sargiean 0]

Hey Liar, thanks for helping carry my guild through Maidens last night. Here are some logs of some skilled warlocks playing Cata on BF:

Mythic: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/X9VHy6QhagRDKTCY#fight=45&type=damage-done

Heroic: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tjBGgbJ4WdyLkvPR#fight=40&type=damage-done

While the heroic parse likely included some padding because Midwinter and overgearing, you can see 3 of the 4 elementalists hit with Cata (2 w/DS up). It makes up a smaller % of their damage due to 4-pc Chaos Waves, but I feel these are pretty indicative of how BF should be played.

As far as I know, 2-pc does indeed proc from CW: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/16201079985?page=1

Old post, but I believe the information is still valid.

 

I have no experience on Mythic BF so I can't speak to that. 

 

However, as far as the heroic kill, the warlock there looks like hes doing some major padding. Aside from the bug that lets our dots continue to tick even on dead targets, the targets he did most damage to are slag elementals at 19.34% of his damage, and firecallers at 18.7%. With the foreman and security guards taking almost identical damage. To me, that means a tank was picking up adds and he was just aoeing the group down.The primal elementalists which control the transition between phase 2 and 3, and are arguably some - if not the most - important targets to damage during the fight didn't even make his top 5. 

 

His top damage spells were chaos wave, doom, and cataclysm. To me, this suggests he was casting cataclysm on large AOE groups. Is this truly the best use of damage on heroic blast furnace? For the length of the fight, wouldn't it make more sense to single target down the most important targets, like the elementalists when their shields are down? Wouldn't this progress the stages of the fight more quickly and take pressure off heals?

Edited April 17, 2015 by Sargiean