So, I'm combat now...blast furnace log

[gonlaz 6]

God I hate combat, hate it.

 

Long story short I play assassination for 5 years now and even though it's not the same I still am competitive with it, at one point with 658 gear I out dpsd two 670 subs. hanz and franz I almost always am the top rogue, even if by only 200 dps with my 640 oh so it is viable and I don't really feel the need to leave it. All things being equal with weapons, if I had 670s in hand I am sure that my single target would be tits. (that said I am not trying to say I am better than the others, I do not think that)

So after receiving a couple of combat stat drops decided it was best to switch two weeks ago, makes sense after all with the cleaving needed. 

Now I'm not sure if I'm just so bored with the spec that I don't try but this week, last night I was down right awful...blast furnace and beastlord seem to be the bane of my existence but even so I performed better last week on them and also the iron maidens

 

And I know combat is silly easy but for some reason it's in my head and I am not doing well, anyone with advice on blast furnace and beast lord, or would you take a look at this pathetic log for me?

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/xZrMy9mpcgRvGnN1#fight=16&type=damage-done&source=4

 

thanks in advance

Edited February 18, 2015 by gonlaz

[Vagiseals 1]

I had similar problems when I switched to combat after being Assasination for years and years.

 

I am not expert in reading the finer details of logs but the obvious things I can see for your Blast Furnace Normal Kill are as follows:

 

Revealing Strike uptime - 75%

This needs to be as high as possible aiming for 98%++

I had this problem when I first switched but after practice you should see this number increase

 

Slice & Dice uptime - 81%

Again this needs to be higher

 

Also Killing spree and AR usage seems wierd.

Your first use of Killing Spree was after 2mins. You need to be using this pretty much on CD unless a boss mechanic interferres with this.

 

You should always use KS before using AR as the extra finsihers you get from AR reduces the CD for KS by a fair bit. You only got 6 Killing Sprees in which to me seems very low considering you also got 6 AR's in and AR has a longer CD.

 

I will let someone else go into finer details but these thinks jumped out to me

[gonlaz 6]

hmm, I had thought KS was solely on BG level red, damn and there it is right in the guide, use it on CD, lol ugh. I had been waiting to use it on bg red all night.

Also in a mob group I try to RS on each one of them, that's also wrong probably, I really don't know.

 

My iron maidens fight last week I don't think I was using CT on the 3, main platform, and I may have been doing higher dps...it seems really to not be useful unless it's 4 or more mobs, do you have a thought on that? Do you spam CT as your finisher with 2, 3 mobs like the maidens?

 

I tell ya I have been so closed minded to combat I may just be subconsciously resisting it

[Aeolla 1]

hmm, I had thought KS was solely on BG level red, damn and there it is right in the guide, use it on CD, lol ugh. I had been waiting to use it on bg red all night.

Also in a mob group I try to RS on each one of them, that's also wrong probably, I really don't know.

 

My iron maidens fight last week I don't think I was using CT on the 3, main platform, and I may have been doing higher dps...it seems really to not be useful unless it's 4 or more mobs, do you have a thought on that? Do you spam CT as your finisher with 2, 3 mobs like the maidens?

 

I tell ya I have been so closed minded to combat I may just be subconsciously resisting it

 

Since you're learning Combat, just learn to use KS and AR on cooldown. Your Eviscerates take 10 seconds off those cooldowns each time so you can imagine how that 2 min cooldowns is slashed by quitttte a bit. 

 

You do not need to be RSing on your Cleave targets. The effect is that it helps the SS/Evis you are currently attacking/main target... it's not a DoT to put up on everything.

 

You will not use Crimson Tempest for anything, ever. Your AoE is Blade Flurry on anything more then one target.

 

When you get in the habit of using your DPS cooldowns when they're up ASAP, then you can start thinking about possibly delaying them for Bandit's Guile. 95% of the time though, you're not going to do this as it's a DPS loss waiting. For example if Deep Insight will come up with 2 more SS and KS just came up - sure you can wait a sec to get into Deep Insight.

 

All of this information is available in Icy Vein's guide for Combat Rogues - you should read it. One thing I'll add is that when you're looking to maximize damage via Cooldown and BG timings, it's very important to have an effective UI so you can see all of the information at a quick glance. Check out Carrn's UI sticky here when you get a chance. 

Edited February 18, 2015 by Aeolla

[gonlaz 6]

I do thank you for the input. The guide says to use Ct which is why I asked

Edited February 19, 2015 by gonlaz

[Vagiseals 1]

I havent read the guide in a while but I thought the guide suggested trying to maintain the CT dot when fighting 2 or more targets when the targets stay alive for the duration?

[Shammm 1]

I havent read the guide in a while but I thought the guide suggested trying to maintain the CT dot when fighting 2 or more targets when the targets stay alive for the duration?

Yes, why is that in the guide if everyone im asking says we should never use it?

[gonlaz 6]

f

 

I havent read the guide in a while but I thought the guide suggested trying to maintain the CT dot when fighting 2 or more targets when the targets stay alive for the duration?

From the guide:

 

"When fighting 2, 3, or 4 enemies, turn on Blade Flurry Icon Blade Flurry and proceed with your single-target rotation on one of the enemies. Maintain the Crimson Tempest Icon Crimson Tempest DoT.

When fighting 5 or more enemies, Crimson Tempest Icon Crimson Tempest should replace Eviscerate Icon Eviscerate as your primary Finishing Move."

 

no matter though, I feel like last night things improved just using ar and ks on cd with bf on and went assassination on other fights, finally got as better dagger as well, a 2 pc and coined Gruul's heroic trink. I think now that I let it sink in and paid attention to the advice/guide things will be fine, at least there was improvement

[Razs 1]

Looking at the log Gonlaz pretty much all of what's been said here is correct - the central idea you need to have when playing combat is maximizing cooldown usage. As a rule of thumb use KS and AR ASAP when they come up, as said above on occasion if you know your deep insight is coming in 1 or 2 more SS when one or both of these come up, you can wait to get it up but it's not worth it to delay much longer than that - the only other time you'd wait is if there's an ability that's preventing you from using one or both cooldowns or you know you're about to have more than a second or two of downtime (this applies to AR, there's nothing worse than popping it and then not being able to hit the boss for half of its duration). Using KS before AR is important which can be another reason to delay, if you see your AR just came up and KS only has 10 seconds on it, use your Evis or wait for it to come so you can KS and then use AR. Even at current heroic gear levels (680~) a well executed AR usually can cut the CD on KS down to 40 seconds or so, which means that shortly after AR ends your KS is already back up again. 

 

Also you should never let SnD or RS drop off, especially with the T17 2pc set bonus not having either one of these up for even a few seconds is going to really slow you down and hurt your dps.

 

As said above when in cleaving situations you only need RS up on your main target, BF will take care of the rest. 

 

As far as Crimson Tempest is concerned - in my experience and testing in 2 or 3 targets you should not use CT, when 4 or more targets are in range you can start putting up a 5pt CT dot, after some testing I've found that even with a large group of targets in an AoE situation, you don't need to spam CT and ignore Evis, most mass AoE situations at least some of the targets don't last longer than the CT dot, or not much longer depending on your raid comp. I usually will put up a 5pt CT, drop 2 5pt Evis and then another CT if there are still 4+ targets up. 

 

As far as openers are concerned with respect to your cd's, keep in mind every 5pt evis you do while either KS or AR is off cooldown is a dps loss - my opener usually consists of ShS or sprint to boss in stealth - ambush - RS - vanish - ambush - KS and then I use my 5pt SnD and pop AR and begin my normal rotation. 

 

Looking at the log your vanish usage looks good, vanish is not necessarily something to us on CD - it is very useful for help you get out of those "ruts" in your rotation, where your CD's are down energy is low and maybe you have a period of bad RNG with your combat potency energy gains and/or extra combo points from RS, a vanish ambush is great for getting those extra points you need to refresh SnD before it drops or get that Evis in and get this back on track and moving a bit quicker again. 

 

Hope this helps :)

[Vagiseals 1]

Lmy opener usually consists of ShS or sprint to boss in stealth - ambush - RS - vanish - ambush - KS and then I use my 5pt SnD and pop AR and begin my normal rotation. 

You should really cast SnD before you KS as I am pretty sure that you still do white hits while your casting KS.

 

My Opener is:

Stealth > Pre-pot at 1 second > ShS/Sprint to boss if required > Ambush > RvS > SS > SnD > SS > SS > SS > KS > SS > AR and then continmue with normal rotations

 

This gets RvS and SnD up ASAP and the 4 SS ensure you are low energy when you KS and also that you have the green insight buff up. I just do one SS at the end of KS to ensure i am not energy capped before I pop AR.

[gonlaz 6]

Thank you Raz and Vag (vag, lol)

 

Your last two posts helped me a great deal, I left CT in the dust unless we're at that huge group of mobs before flamebender or later towards the maidens and saw an immediate increase in productivity. 

 

 

 

Now that our top rogue is apparently leaving, I have to go main spec sub, I love assassination (raiding n it for 5 years now, love it) and am good enough on it but to improve a little more I need to switch, so I'm sure I'll be posting on that asap lol

Edited February 27, 2015 by gonlaz

[Carrn 284]

Sub is tons of fun, but takes practice. Don't be afraid to spend a lot of time on a dummy getting a feel for the spec

[gonlaz 6]

indeed I have already, last night even did a brf normal, I as not very good at it, I'll be doing research and practice all weekend and then some I'm sure