Ret - FV vs DS

[Pancakz 0]

The ret rotation calls for using DS when both FV and EDS procs are active.  However, I have noticed that my FV still hits for more that DS even with both those procs active.  So, the question is: what am I missing here?

[nayrol94 0]

I would think its because of the fact that when youre DS procs it wont consume any extra Holy power I personally always aim to pool 5 holy power incase I find myself in that situation for example I would pool 5 holy power hit FV then DS would proc and id use it followed up with any holy power generator move and use FV again makes for a nice burst that way

[Grognard 6]

You want to pair EDS with the FV proc because of the extra damage. It's not as powerful as FV, however it doesn't consume any resource but a global. Without wasting a proc, EDS is essentially rotational filler that you squeeze in as priority allows until the buff is down to ~4s remaining - or I tend to pop EDS at 5HoPo just to not waste a proc if the next T/FV ends up proccing another.

[Pancakz 0]

Right, so I understand that with both procs there is a significant damage increase to DS, but even with both procs if I'm getting a bunch of DP procs, I'm going to use those all on FV and never on DS because, as far as I can tell, FV is a better use of DP procs. 

 

So, it seems to me like the only time a ret pally ever wants to use DS is in this scenario: FV proc is up, EDS proc is up, AND FV is down (i.e. you are below 3 HoPo and no DP proc).

[Grognard 6]

If you have the FV buff, an EDS proc, and a DP proc, casting DS will only consume the EDS proc and the FV buff, allowing you to immediately FV again to regain the FV buff and potentially gain another of each the EDS proc and the DP proc. You don't want to waste an EDS proc because you're losing on free damage, but you don't delay higher priority abilities for EDS. We have the priority list for this very reason.

[Pancakz 0]

Okay, that is starting to make more sense to me now.  I think the key phrase you used was "free damage" and that wasn't clicking with me before.  I also didn't realize it wouldn't strip the DP proc.

 

So a follow-up to that then: do you have a preference for an add-on that does a good job of tracking EDS procs?

[Grognard 6]

CLCRet has functionality to make sure EDS procs are placed correctly in the priority queue so as to not waste them. Personally, I just use a ClassTimer and manually eyeball the buff duration - same with DP.

[Endrux 0]

I have a question about DS vs FV and I hope you might be able to answer it: 

 

In the scenario where you have a free DS proc but no EDS buff, should you use the unbuffed&free DS? Or maybe is it better to cast first a FV to get the buff and then cast a free&buffed DS? 

 

The second option seems to yield a better damage output since it's FV+EDS vs DS+FV, however, the first option casts FV when you already have a freeDS buff, so you are losing the chance to get an aditional DS from your 3 HoPo.

[Grognard 6]

The bonus damage from the FV buff is substantial enough that you don't want to use EDS without it. There is the potential to "lose" a proc, but FV buff with EDS buff makes DS hit almost as hard as FV (195% weapon as Holy vs. FV's normal 200% weapon as Holy) with the added benefit of not consuming Holy Power.