Find Weakness as Night ELF

[Houd 0]

Hello. There is much dicusion about Find Weakness uptime.

 

I raid at a semi high level but you can always improve.

 

Here are my questions. My Find Weakness uptime ranged from 45-55%. Mostly closer to 50% than 45%. I am Night ElF so I can shadowmeld->Ambush every 2mins. 

 

Which rotation would you guys use for most Find Weakness uptime? Im unsure if I should:

 

Shadowmeld

Vanish

Prep->Vanish

 

Vanish

Shadowmeld

Prep-Vanish

 

Vanish

Prep->Vanish

Shadowmeld

 

Which combination will grant me the best result with CD's comming back online, or another combination that this? In long fights I would imagine it would to use prep as fast as possible, but most fights you don't get more than 1 prep other than the one you use early on. I don't understand how non-night elves can sometime reach 55% uptime allthough mostly other have around 45-50%. 

 

My gear are badly itemized for sub compared to combat, however I still feel my rotation is strong:

 

Opener of premed->snd->garrote->dump energy->SD/SR->rotation.

Dont clip Find Weakness

Pull Energy before Vanish/Shadowmeld.

Keep Rupture up

Keep SnD up

Else Evis.

 

Another question. A month or 2 ago Hemo was simmed as DPS neutral. Is that still the case of should I keep it up?

 

 

[Carrn 284]

Hemo is technically a gain only when Find Weakness is down, and even then it's small. I still maintain it when appropriate, but many people have decided to give it the chop

 

I would priorotize Dance > Vanish > Prep Vanish > Meld

 

So at the start you could have 50s of FW uptime over the first minute of the fight, with a second or two of downtime in the middle of some of them to refresh SnD and Rup if the timing works out nicely.

 

Applying it to a more realistic raid situation though, I'd probably save Shadowmeld as kind of a buffer - the chances that you get 50 straight seconds to dps the boss without moving (since Meld is restricted to standing still) is pretty slim unless you're on Butcher, so I'd probably save it for a point in the fight where you have uptime on the boss but don't have either Dance or Vanish off cooldown. This will vary by fight, and depending on how it times out with your raid, might not even be necessary. 

 

Actually, I guess another good situation to use it in would be instead of Dance. For example: if you have a handful of cp's, don't need to refresh Rupture or SnD, and have enforced downtime coming up due to boss mechanics in the next 10 seconds, you can save your Dance for a time when it won't be wasted and just use Meld to pop Find Weakness. A decent example of this might be crates on Oregorger - not worth wasting Dance on, but getting the armor reduction is nice

 

TL;DR priority is listed above, but Meld is better saved for situational use imo

[Houd 0]

Thanks for the reply. Using Meld situational is however a bad idea imo and just leads to less FW uptime. Every SUB fight in BRF except Oregorger you wont experience those problems, and even at Oregorger it's easy to predict the time of his rolls. And if he rolls popping SD is ofcourse stupid. 

 

Can you comment on excat % of FW? How to improve - as it seems very static of how much you can get as everyone have the same SD/vanish cd's.

 

TLDR, how to min/max for the extra %?

[lipsinch 46]

I'm curious about one thing: isn't clipping FW on 1s a DPS advantage?

 

And IMO I think that Shadowmeld should be used 1st, given it has the biggest CD between the FW appliers, as in:

 

Opener

SD

Shadowmeld

Vanish Prep

Vanish

 

I think that would ensure you to use it more often in a fight.

 

Edit: Houd, every time I read your name I remember of Houdini. Not sure if intended. Lol.

Edited March 3, 2015 by lipsinch

[Houd 0]

I'm curious about one thing: isn't clipping FW on 1s a DPS advantage?

 

And IMO I think that Shadowmeld should be used 1st, given it has the biggest CD between the FW appliers, as in:

 

Opener

SD

Shadowmeld

Vanish Prep

Vanish

 

I think that would ensure you to use it more often in a fight.

 

Edit: Houd, every time I read your name I remember of Houdini. Not sure if intended. Lol.

 

I'm curious about one thing: isn't clipping FW on 1s a DPS advantage?

 

And IMO I think that Shadowmeld should be used 1st, given it has the biggest CD between the FW appliers, as in:

 

Opener

SD

Shadowmeld

Vanish Prep

Vanish

 

I think that would ensure you to use it more often in a fight.

 

Edit: Houd, every time I read your name I remember of Houdini. Not sure if intended. Lol.

 

I was named Houdini in prev games and my rl friends shortened it to Houd - So it's very much the intention :)

 

Your logic is however sound. However if you clip it you would lose total uptime?

[lipsinch 46]

The main idea of having the buff is to increase damage output.

 

I'm assuming you clip FW with Ambush, which is our hardest direct hitting combo generator skill, and it extends it's duration. If you simply let it fall and reapply without clipping, you'd extend it for 5 or 6 seconds (not sure, perhaps more?) but the usage would be towards Backstabs, which isn't damage-wise compared to Ambush, and Ambush has the same properties as Backstab (MS procs, plus % dagger damage). And a small plus on positional requirement, which sometimes helps a lot (tanks, I'm looking at you with your boss dance).

 

Given that, I think that a FW Ambush will hit WAY harder than a FW Backstab. One thing to think though, is if the quantity of Backstab casts outweight or equates itself with Ambush damage gain within FW window.

[Houd 0]

If you clip you still have lower total uptime of FW. After my opener->meld->vanish->vanish->sd> there will be a big gap before next vanish and the gap will only the bigger if I clip.

[lipsinch 46]

If I clip just the last FW second will have that big impact?

 

And similarly as I said earlier, gotta ponder if having that smaller downtime will be a bigger DPS gain than keeping FW up for this shorter period and Ambushing in the meantime.

 

Edit: better wording.

Edited March 3, 2015 by lipsinch

[Houd 0]

Sorry but I dont see your logic. How will the ambush time change with clipping? If anything you get less uptime = less ambush?

[lipsinch 46]

Let me try write this down. This is what I understood and what I thought:

 

You say that you let FW fall off and reapply right after.

 

I asked if clipping FW with Ambush 1s before FW drops is a DPS gain. Why:

 

I assume that increasing FW window leads to more Backstab usages towards the end of that window. You'd be extending the FW duration with Ambush anyway. The difference is that if you clip it, your extending Ambush will benefit from the debuff on the mob, and thus getting a DPS gain.

 

Wouldn't that FW-buffed Ambush be a DPS gain over letting FW fall off and reapply (unbuffed Ambush) and then using Backstab with this 1s of extended FW this way?

[Carrn 284]

Lip is right, I think. It's splitting hairs and comes close to being the same thing, but making sure that Ambush benefits from the pre-existing FW is better than filling it with another BS. which won't do as much damage

[Houd 0]

Ok. I think I know what you mean now. If I vanish and ambush at ie. 0,1 sec left of FW I get the ambush with the exsisting FW and then reapply a new one.

 

But I don't see the practical use in that. Between my FW's i usually reapply SnD and perhaps Rupture and then use some seconds to pulls energy so I can get several timed ambushes off to refresh FW with Subterfuge.

[Carrn 284]

Yeah it depends what the timings of everything are when you're in the fight