Demo Trinket Question

[Tread 1]

Hello,

I've been brainstorming for whole day now. I'm currently using Shard of Nothing 685 Mythic version and Durmac Unstable Talisman 665 Normal version.

Last night I dropped BMC 665 Normal from blackhand. I don't know if I should swap it with something and if I should then with what.
I'm playing demonology warlock, please help me out with some feedback.

[spikeysquad 50]

Well the Sims that I have seen have put the 3 nice trinkys from BRF and their combinations under 150 dps of one another at 680 so basically there is little difference. At 665 item level even less so whatever you do will not be game breaking.

 

While DUT was doing well on the Sims I, and this is a personal opinion rather than an educated one, would not take 2 haste trinkets at once hence Shards and BMC I would use for now.

 

Being honest later on I am still unsure about a haste proc trinky though I do like Shards as I control it. 

Edited March 9, 2015 by spikeysquad

[Tread 1]

Thanks for your help mate!

One more question. Does popping GoServ benefit from DS/trinket procs?

[Paracel 165]

Thanks for your help mate!

One more question. Does popping GoServ benefit from DS/trinket procs?

Yes.

I'd kept SoN and used BMC. Multistrike proc is somewhat tricky to use, but it's raw power. Unlike DUT, it allows you to have small burn windows for excessive fury inbetween Dark Souls - ToC is no friend of Haste.

[kika 1]

Hi All, I have a related question and I would like your feedback

 

I am currently using Normal Blackiron Micro Crucible (665) + Heroic Darmac's Unstable Talisman (680).. I also have in my bags Copeland's Clarity (665) and Mythic Quiescent Runestone (685)

 

I am going serv/serv for ST and Syn/Cata for 2+ 

 

Do you think I should keep using BMC + DUT? As @Paracel said BMC is raw power, but QR is 20 ilvl diff... I dont really know what to do, some advice would be greatly appreciated 

 

Thanks all

[Godmare 3]

Hi All, I have a related question and I would like your feedback

 

I am currently using Normal Blackiron Micro Crucible (665) + Heroic Darmac's Unstable Talisman (680).. I also have in my bags Copeland's Clarity (665) and Mythic Quiescent Runestone (685)

 

I am going serv/serv for ST and Syn/Cata for 2+ 

 

Do you think I should keep using BMC + DUT? As @Paracel said BMC is raw power, but QR is 20 ilvl diff... I dont really know what to do, some advice would be greatly appreciated 

 

Thanks all

I'd go with what u have. BMC 670 vs the QR 685 the BMC wins and its nice to have something to pop cds with for a nice burst.

[Drkdragon 9]

Since this post is still on the front page Ill use this.

 

Current trinket choices

ilvl 661 SoN

ilvl 676 DUT

ilvl 670 Sandmans

 

I know the DUT but what to go with it? Double haste seems like its not the best idea but I also don't like the idea of having no control over both of my trinkets.

[Paracel 165]

Since this post is still on the front page Ill use this.

 

Current trinket choices

ilvl 661 SoN

ilvl 676 DUT

ilvl 670 Sandmans

 

I know the DUT but what to go with it? Double haste seems like its not the best idea but I also don't like the idea of having no control over both of my trinkets.

I really, really, really hate DUT because it doesn't give you anything special to work with. It's like a passive DPS gain compared to any other trinket. Pretty much QR with buff instead of passive stat and no multistrike.

But Int count on it and size of that haste proc is too yummy. That's the reason you would want in as 1st trinket.

2nd choice is a bit hard.

Sandman is a shitty proc, but a performance one, unlike DUT.

SoN gives haste - essentially the same problem we are facing with DUT. It's also meh with Cata and DB.

I'd keep Sandman over SoN just because of lucky RNG factor - giant crit buff inside of your DS is awesome. That proc outside of your DS windows - still gives you something to spend excessive Soul Fires.

.

[spikeysquad 50]

I agree that double haste isn't good but that is partly because I am also finding that I do not really like RPPM haste trinkets. However, you may be able to take nice advantage of the SoN and your sexiest procs especially if DemServ.

 

As to using both proc trinkets well that is the way of BRF to be honest and something most will have to adapt to anyhow.

 

Can you upgrade Sandmans?

 

As it stands I would probably take Sandmans and the DuT but ultimately this is just a personal opinion. There are some sims around but they show individual trinkets at these levels and pairings would have a different result however they are all rather close.  

[Tread 1]

It's me again. ^^

Shard of Nothing Mythic 685
Goren Soul Repository 685
Blackhand Micro Crucible 670

help.

[Liquidsteel 279]

SoN and GSR

[Stunlocked 8]

I know that when Zag wrote the original Demo guide and did some theory-crafting on trinkets, his general rule of thumb was to pick the two with the highest item level.  

[Soulzar 42]

Last night I rolled a Mythic GSR, so happy!!  I dropped my Heroic WF DUT... and proceeded to cry the next few bosses as the timing on ALL my openers is now jacked without that haste proc on pull!

 

I am going to have to mess around between H/Socket BMC and H/WF DUT.  I had originally kept my BMC since it has a socket and higher base int, but my openers suffered noticeably, as while I had better burst procs on pull, I was missing timing on the max stacks.

 

I have a feeling I'll end up using DUT for more ST fights or ones i'm running DB on, and BMC on Cata fights.

[Paracel 165]

Last night I rolled a Mythic GSR, so happy!!  I dropped my Heroic WF DUT... and proceeded to cry the next few bosses as the timing on ALL my openers is now jacked without that haste proc on pull!

 

I am going to have to mess around between H/Socket BMC and H/WF DUT.  I had originally kept my BMC since it has a socket and higher base int, but my openers suffered noticeably, as while I had better burst procs on pull, I was missing timing on the max stacks.

 

I have a feeling I'll end up using DUT for more ST fights or ones i'm running DB on, and BMC on Cata fights.

I can't follow your point about DB.

 

What does Haste rating give to DB?

 

Faster generation?

C'mon, you are spending your MC and 4pc HoG is good uptime, especially with big gear and Haste level.

Performance trinkets (GSR/BMC/CC/Sandman/Stone of Fire) are much better for that DB because your resource generation - your fury for DB - is already solid. You need to improve the damage of those 4 DBs each minute because there is no possibility you'll make that count bigger.

Serv/Serv is another side of that coin because you can increase your MC count due to Haste from DUT - thus increasing your damage. Having 2 performance procs can make you both good and bad deal - more windows for bleed and chances that they will come up during burn phases but less MC overall and as you've said, your opener was really messy. Let's not forget that Haste is affecting pets which is nice.

Cata is something in between, I'd say, as you want to have pew-pew cake for your CWs and Cata damage and eat your MC cake, too.

If the fight is more AoE focused (Thogar, Kromog, Darmac, Mythic Flamebender, where you concentrate on bursting adds) IMO performance is better.

Cleave fight - Hans/Frans or Iron Maidens - where you benefit from your MC and DoTs much more(sustained damage), DUT comes handy.

That's what I think.

I suffer badly from having DUT and QR as they are essentially both give me passive haste and Int which is a no-go for my DB experience and is hurting my bleed ability.

If somebody can find it helpful, there is a conversion of proc values from DUT/GSR into passive values:

670 DUT/GSR : 283 Int, 307 Haste/Crit

685 DUT/GSR : 325 Int, 353 Haste/Crit

700 DUT/GSR : 374 Int, 406 Haste/Crit

I don't have BMC so I have neither the Idea how it works nor how to calculate it's passive worth.

Can somebody give me a hint?

 

M GSR, I think, should be your choice over H BMC, as its proc is easier to control and more conveinient. It also works OK with either Cata, Serv/Serv or DB. Especially DB.

If you feel your way around BMC - take what's yours.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Paracel

[Soulzar 42]

I can't follow your point about DB.

 

What does Haste rating give to DB?

 

Faster generation?

C'mon, you are spending your MC and 4pc HoG is good uptime, especially with big gear and Haste level.

Performance trinkets (GSR/BMC/CC/Sandman/Stone of Fire) are much better for that DB because your resource generation - your fury for DB - is already solid. You need to improve the damage of those 4 DBs each minute because there is no possibility you'll make that count bigger.

 

 

Aside from lowering its Cooldown?

 

Reverse the question, what good is BMC proc for DB outside of your opener when they align?  Are you going to delay DB dumps for BMC procs?  No..  Are you going to jump into meta and cast DB regardless of CD because you got a BMC proc?  No.    Even with the 4p, the faster fury generation makes a big difference in your cycle times. 

 

Haste is our better secondary for sustained over crit or multistrike, but the nature of most fights in BRF allows us to take advantage of the burst potential of Crit/MS... which is why they are all a solid choice.

 

I would put higher value on Crit/MS for H&F and Maidens, because fury generation multi target is already so high, that you want as many dmg modifier procs as possible to dump your CW's and SF's on to bleed your excess fury.

[Paracel 165]

Is DB cooldown important?

You are tied to DS cooldown of 60 seconds for your cycles rather than DB cooldown, afaik. And DS is not affected by Haste.
If you are using DB differently, tell me why and in which cases? I'm very interested.

Your argument that BMC is useless while it's not aligned with DBs doesn't feel right for me. Rest of your spells are still doing damage and a plenty of it. Also bigger passive Int and RPPM have a chance to be synced right, still.

I would like a bit more explaination, if you don't mind.

[Liquidsteel 279]

BMC will be better for DB.

 

It's all about RNG. You basically do the fight for 5 weeks in a row and your highest parse will be the one where the fight ends just after a DB rotation, and where your 3 and 4 stack DB's had crit/multistrike RNG in their favour.

[Soulzar 42]

Caveat: Keep in mind your massive rebuttal post that initiated this discussion was replying to some "thinking out loud" impressions of a few pulls I had with a new trinket after a month with a haste proc.  I base everything I do in game off personal experience, never ever sims. I feel I've been pulled into a debate I'm not in the position to argue one side vs the other because I am still evaluating the results myself.  

 

Is DB cooldown important?

You are tied to DS cooldown of 60 seconds for your cycles rather than DB cooldown, afaik. And DS is not affected by Haste.
If you are using DB differently, tell me why and in which cases? I'm very interested.

Your argument that BMC is useless while it's not aligned with DBs doesn't feel right for me. Rest of your spells are still doing damage and a plenty of it. Also bigger passive Int and RPPM have a chance to be synced right, still.

I would like a bit more explaination, if you don't mind.

 

I never said anything about it being useless.   

 

I was simply pointing out that when 30% of your dmg is tied to DB and you're crossing your fingers for the proc to align with your DB dump... that the proc is providing less to DB's damage.  The BMC still has a higher static int to help prop that up though, which will be there for every DB.  The Haste proc on the other hand is not "wasted" if it procs outside of your DB dump window, as the fury generation gets you to your next dump cycle faster and more reliably.  Yes there is a limit on Fury income in relation to the DB cooldown, but its certainly a lot less than a minute, and very frequently my DB CD is up before my fury is at 800.  In the situations i am currently using DB, that "fury gain" proc was quite useful.

 

Everything above said, after last nights pulls things are starting to feel a bit better with the new combo.  Opener is feeling natural again and minor changes to play to make sure my dump cycles align correctly again with the mechanics I'm using DB for.  While stars aligning for your DB cycle to hit the 10 proc is still not very reliable, having two 10s DMG modifying procs does go a long way to having one of the two rolling quite frequently when its time to DB dump.  

 

Pull still feels much stronger with the haste proc, however overall dmg on my DB targets was where it needed to be with the MS trinket.

[Tread 1]

I'm back. :D

http://www.wowhead.com/item=113914/leggings-of-the-molten-torrent&bonus=567Using these pants atm. I just got t17 heroic pants and I'm thinking if I should replace it with these. With them I could wear good mastery gloves and could still keep 4 set piece. I just don't know if the change is worth sacrificing 15 ilvl.