Shadowburn or Chaos Bolt

[Soco 0]

I'm pretty new to playing my warlock in a serious setting and got a quick question. 

 

When a raid boss is below 20% health and I have full embers, should I spam Shadowburn even though the boss won't die within 5 seconds or should a spam Chaos Bolt? Third option I guess, I could alternate them and do Chaos, Shadow, Chaos, Shadow? 

[Oltier 471]

Only Shadowburn. As it is written in the guide.

[Soco 0]

Thanks for your quick reply, although in regards to your snippy "as it is written in the guide" bit...the guide says "below 20% and when the conditions of Chaos Bolt are met"

 

the last condition of Chaos Bolt is "the target will die shortly" 

 

so I suppose my question should have read "Should I still spam Shadowburn even if my target is not necessarily going to die shortly. I'm sure the answer is the same, but just thought I point out that your attitude is slightly more rude than necessary. 

 

Thanks again though for your quick reply and help.

[spikeysquad 50]

Unless I am mistaken (and I am sure someone will correct me) the current advice is only to use SB if it will die within those 5 seconds or if you can Havoc the SB onto another target. Otherwise you use CB but ideally only with procs, no spamming of it without! (Be aware this that this advice is for a non GoSac-CR, level 100 talent, rotation though). SB can be an option if you are on the move and about to cap Embers and/or have nothing else to cast. 

 

At lower gear levels mana regeneration can be an issue and while you are casting CB you regain a lot of MP. Also like the guide says SB doesn't always crit and if not you lose damage over using CB.

Edited March 11, 2015 by spikeysquad

[Astynax 24]

Unless I am mistaken (and I am sure someone will correct me) the current advice is only to use SB if it will die within those 5 seconds or if you can Havoc the SB onto another target. Otherwise you use CB but ideally only with procs, no spamming of it without! (Be aware this that this advice is for a non GoSac-CR, level 100 talent, rotation though). SB can be an option if you are on the move and about to cap Embers and/or have nothing else to cast. 

 

At lower gear levels mana regeneration can be an issue and while you are casting CB you regain a lot of MP. Also like the guide says SB doesn't always crit and if not you lose damage over using CB.

 

Yeah... I'm gonna say "you are mistaken.." The net DPET is ALWAYS higher for shadowburn. Not casting shadowburn, and instead casting chaos bolt is like justifying not buying a lottery ticket by saying you have a low chance to win... except in this scenario, you're losing the $5 anyway.

 

The answer is "You should always cast shadowburn instead of chaos bolt (barring some ungodly haste scenario that is quite literally impossible to get to ATM) below 20% health." When do you cast shadowburn? Essentially, with relevant procs, or before you cap, and with havoc when possible (trying to double align here.) The other scenario that gets added is on a low health enemy, when you can single (or double) shadowburn and essentially get a free one off (so that the cost <= the return). You should always be casting shadowburn on the boss below 20%. You should always be prioritizing shadowburn over Chaos bolt. You should never cap embers. If any of the conditions that you should spend embers on powerful spells are met, you should prioritize shadowburn. Period.

 

The reason Oltier's tone is a bit snarky is simply because the guide says it as simply and perfectly as it can be said. I understand how someone unfamiliar with the mechanics of how our damage works could miss that, but there is no simpler way to say it; and the question itself appears as if it has been posed without viewing the relevant resources, which is a bit of a pet peeve around here. "Under the conditions that warrant a Chaos bolt cast and ANY [priority] target is < 20%, OR the target will refund the cost of casting shadowburn."Cast it.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Astynax

[spikeysquad 50]

Fair enough Astynax. I have just realised that I follow Liquidsteel's guide here in the forums and others are reading the main one on this site and the information is contradictory between the two.  

[Astynax 24]

Fair enough Astynax. I have just realised that I follow Liquidsteel's guide here in the forums and others are reading the main one on this site and the information is contradictory between the two.  

 

The main one isn't entirely up-to-date, and is usually a bit behind, so that's fair and all. But the one on the main site is probably..... 85% or so.

[Liquidsteel 279]

The guide could use an update, however to clear a few things up.

The removal of mana refund on Shadowburn resulted in Destro going oom, so Chaos Bolt became superior in all situations other than Havoc cleave and add sniping.

The subsequent buff to Charred Remains in patch 6.1 meant that mana was no longer an issue, so Shadowburn is now usable again.

[spikeysquad 50]

I did read around when I decided which guide(s) to follow and Brusalk's (MMO Champion) also said that SB was a dps loss in a ST situation. Perhaps with better gear that changes though.

 

So just curious Liquid say you are using "normal" DemServ spec, as many people still seem to be, would you still suggest to CB in execute? 

 

I am not actually specced into Destro at the moment so cannot do any testing. 

Edited March 11, 2015 by spikeysquad

[Liquidsteel 279]

I would, yes, assuming you are running into mana problems.

[Stunlocked 8]

However, I thought the mana issues in the original guide were also due to the fact that at the time Rain of Fire was part of the single target rotation, and RoF is a mana-hog.   

 

My understanding was we didn't want to use Shadowburn on single-target fights simply because it did less damage than Chaos Bolt.  

[Liquidsteel 279]

Nah even without RoF you still had mana issues on pure single target.