Balance AOE

[Andanas 0]

How do you guys handle heavy aoe fights (beast lord, operator, blast furnace)?

My RL showed me my log and the log of another druid with similar ilvl, and fight time for Beast Lord. He had more starfall than I did, but I had more star surges. It also didn't help me that I forgot to re-glyph starfall so it hit everything (oops). My dot usage looked good though. I do know I was trying to keep up my single target rotation as well as aoe, and that Probably hurt me. I'm not looking to pad the meters, but my RL feels I should be at, or near the top of the dps charts.

I don't have a log to post, as I am using my phone right now. But am I right in assuming that I shouldn't worry so much about keeping a perfect single target rotation, and save the charges for starfall? Also, how much of a dpa loss is it to starfall in solar?

[Bonita 8]

Hey Andanas,

- please post both logs asap so we can have a closer look onto

- Yep, you need that glyph!

- Keep Starfall up as much as possilbe....even in Solar, its no DPS loss because you will always deal with 3 or more targets

- try to have a Starfall ready for Pack Beast spawn

- try to be in Solar for Pack Beast spawn to 1 Dot every Beast around

- dont waste time by Moonfire Doting every single Pack Beast, it is not worthy....they just die too fast.

- keep both Dots rollin on spears

Edited March 11, 2015 by Bonita

[Andanas 0]

Thanks for the reply, Bonita.

 

My log from Beast Lord: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zwhBJ6xZ7rTv3njX#fight=16&type=damage-done&source=6

Other druid: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/YvymbZ6NKh7Cf1dV#fight=14&type=damage-done&source=100

 

My Char.: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/draenor/Andanas/advanced

 

The other druid had a few more starfall casts than I did, but had over 4200 hits compared to my 1300.  That I think I can attribute to not having the glyph, or not having any charges due to using them on the boss when there were no adds up.  I was trying to moonfire the beast packs as well, but if it doesn't help, I'll not do that.

 

I'll take your word for it that Starfall in solar is not a dps loss, though I thought I read somewhere it was.  Maybe I read it wrong.

[nygax 0]

i consider myself a very terrible boomkin, but on beastlord at 665 iLvl I did 56k dps and 76% of it was starfall...I completely abandoned single target, used every charge on starfall and dotted up the spears

Edited March 12, 2015 by nygax

[Pinkis 12]

My log is a bit different, I've pretty much just single target dpsed stuff as we have warlocks who can just aoe burst-down all the stuff, and adds pretty much don't live longer than 1 starfall. What bothers me however is this:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zwhBJ6xZ7rTv3njX#fight=16&type=damage-done&source=6&start=7005212&end=7045803

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/cp9QXBaxZfDhPvm6#fight=19&type=damage-done&source=357&start=6529239&end=6569451

I'm +7 ilvl compared to you, but on first 40 secs I did almost twice as much damage as you. That means you're doing your opener wrong. And if I've learned one thing from Kazistrasz it's that your opener is most important part of dps at the end of the fight As you can see I've spent most of my stacks on starsurge, dpsed ST and yet had 40k dps. If your raid comp is good at aoe'ing adds you won't have good aoe dps. If they stay alive longer - your dps will rise up. As I can see your raid is pretty strong at aoe, so you should weight when to aoe and when to ST.

[Bonita 8]

Hey Andanas,

- yes, put in that gylph. DPS loss if a Dot is required to get hit by Starfall

- yes, thats correct. You have read that Starfall is a DPSloss in Solar. If you deal against 2 targets. With 3 or more you're fine

- your openers was indeed weaker to Pinkis or mine.The reason can / could be the following:
  - your no troll / no berserkbuff available

  - a 2nd powerfull procing trinket is missing

  - your opener had some errors, which I will show you below

  - I see too many timegaps between your casts. Keep casting. Do not hesitate

  - you only had 4 Starfire casts within that 15 seconds uptime of CA

    (I get 9-10 with Darmac trinket, Berserking and ShardsofNothing /// Pnks had 7 with the same buffs as mine)

 

00:00:00.829 Andanas casts Starfire on Beastlord Darmac

00:00:00.901Andanas casts Solar Beam on Beastlord Darmac

00:00:00.901Andanas casts Celestial Alignment

00:00:00.901Andanas casts Void Shards

00:00:00.901Andanas casts Moonfire on Beastlord Darmac

00:00:02.450Andanas begins casting Starfire      <- Starfire1. you didnt Starsurge before. Starfire wasnt empowered. Also Moonfire GCD is 1 Sec. You took 1.5 sec between Moonfire and Starfire. 0.5 Secs wasted

00:00:05.169Andanas casts Starsurge on Beastlord Darmac   <- 1st Starsurge. You now have 2 Empow. buffs up

00:00:07.414Andanas begins casting Starfire     <- Starfire 2. GCD of Starsurge 1 Sec. Gap is 2.3 secs. 1.3 secs wasted

00:00:09.928Andanas casts Starsurge on Beastlord Darmac      <- Only 1 Starfire casted before. You still had 1 Buff up. No need for Starsurge here

00:00:11.058Andanas begins casting Starfire      <- Starfire 3

00:00:12.754Andanas begins casting Starfire      <- Starfire 4

00:00:14.319Andanas casts Starsurge on Beastlord Darmac

00:00:15.619Andanas casts Starfall

00:00:15.978Andanas's Celestial Alignment fades from Andanas    <- CA buff faded

00:00:17.889Andanas casts Moonfire on Heavy Spear 1

00:00:18.995Andanas begins casting Wrath   <-- Nonono no in Lunar

00:00:20.376Andanas begins casting Starfire

00:00:21.981Andanas casts Starfire on Heavy Spear 1

00:00:24.154Andanas casts Moonfire on Heavy Spear 2      <- 2.2 secs gap between finished Starfire cast and Moonfire cast

00:00:26.112Andanas's Incarnation: Chosen of Elune fades from Andanas

00:00:27.365Andanas casts Starfall     <- Between 00:24 Moonfire and 00:27 Starfall you casted nothing..3 secs

 

Conclusion:

Your weak OpenerDPS is related to what you see above:
You wasted 2 seconds of CA while not casting anything

and an additional 2.2 secs at the end of INC + that 3 seconds

Your Starfall cast at 00:15 and 00:27 didnt hit any Pack Beasts because of missing Glyph.

This one Wrath cast


Additional (for the Overall DPS), you had only used INC/CA twice in a almost 11 minutes fight. You coulda have 4

Edited March 12, 2015 by Bonita

[Randytaylor 1]

Looks like you wasted a lot of time doing whatever and got messed up with targeting, try to be in the middle of the room 7yds from anyone and get yourself /cast [mouseover,harm] Moonfire; Moonfire for the spear nameplates. Only move if there's a breath or spear heading your way. Try to focus on empowering your starfires and using shards when you can cast starfires most of the duration like when he's mourning a beast.

[Andanas 0]

Should I remain in Euphoria, or switch to Stellar Flare, or BoP for heavy aoe fights?

Edited March 12, 2015 by Andanas

[Bonita 8]

I recommend you the following based on real numbers by warcraftlogs-rankings:

 

- Blast Furnace: BoP or Euphoria

 

- Beastlord Darmac: Euphoria

 

- Iron Maidens: They're close together. Take talent where you feel most comfort with

*EDIT*: Euphoria or BoP

(if you are not assigned to jump to boat. if you are: Euphoria)

 

All others in BRF take Euphoria

Edited March 13, 2015 by Bonita

[Pinkis 12]

(I get 9-10 with Darmac trinket, Berserking and ShardsofNothing /// Pnks had 7 with the same buffs as mine)

I'll steal some of this thread.. :}

I usually get to cast 8, and it don't feel like I could fit in any more. Maybe that's because I use Darmac's unstable talisman (h) instead of shards of nothing (h) ? Is it worth switching back?

[Bonita 8]

I'll steal some of this thread.. :}

I usually get to cast 8, and it don't feel like I could fit in any more. Maybe that's because I use Darmac's unstable talisman (h) instead of shards of nothing (h) ? Is it worth switching back?

 

:)

Yes it is because of Shards of Nothing.

No do not switch back. As I can see from Armory you have Darmac (Haste) and Oregorger (crit) trinkets. They are BiS. Even 680 of them is better than 685 Shard of Nothing. That 1 cast less you have compared to me is compensated by the crit procc you get

[Shedim 13]

Why are you teaching him to pad on the spears? He shouldn't be wasting time putting dots on them, just kill the damn boss? Starfall alone from just one boomkin will be able to finish them off eventually. It's only when you're about to get the spears empowered by fire you want to finish them off, and from there you dot them, but that's like the very end of the fight. 

[Randytaylor 1]

Why are you teaching him to pad on the spears? He shouldn't be wasting time putting dots on them, just kill the damn boss? Starfall alone from just one boomkin will be able to finish them off eventually. It's only when you're about to get the spears empowered by fire you want to finish them off, and from there you dot them, but that's like the very end of the fight. 

Spears don't really melt, even on Heroic. You do want to dot them up and have starfall going so they're taken care of over the course of the fight. Go do mythic beastlord and come back and tell me how you didn't dot the spears and just killed the damn boss.

[Bonita 8]

Spears don't really melt, even on Heroic. You do want to dot them up and have starfall going so they're taken care of over the course of the fight. Go do mythic beastlord and come back and tell me how you didn't dot the spears and just killed the damn boss.

 

aye. Correctly.

The goal is to do max DPS and to be helpful for the raid. A Boomkin is helpul for the raid, esp on mythic Beastlord, by Doting and Starfall the spears. The Boomkin will have a nice DPS (and happy bout it) and the raid itself will be thankful of good spears management.

 

and yes yes Shedim, as long as the spears arent empowered by fire they could potentially do single DPS to Beastlord...But tbh why?? Let them Dot the spears and keep Starfall up. If you want to do single target DPS play another class...if you want to be usefull by what the class is giving you.... DOT the spears

Edited March 14, 2015 by Bonita

[Shedim 13]

OP specifically said he didn't want to pad the meters, so why are you telling him to? 

It is certainly not needed to dot the spears until they empower. I killed Beastlord Mythic on the 11th of February. I do not dot the spears and I am the only boomkin. Starfall itself will deal with the spears over the fight. You're mistaken because you irrationally think the spears need to be killed quickly - like getting overwhelmed is a bad thing. Just let the spears grow in numbers, ignore them. You don't even need to Starfall or touch them in any way for the first minute. They're completely irrelevant. Once the spears are about to get empowered, you finish them off by dotting them if needed. You'd be surprised how low they already are due to Starfall and passive cleaving from other classes like Barrage. Once they catch on fire you dot them up as they spawn. 

 

Bonita, just because moonkins can potentially top the meters, it doesn't mean killing the spears is their purpose in this fight. "if you want to be useful by what the class is giving you... DOT the spears" - how is padding the meters useful in any way? It seems you're unable to distinguish between what is best for the raid and what will give you good looking ranks at the cost of a much slower kill. 

[Bonita 8]

well, it is that easy...You have your opinion, I have mine. Ppl here asking for help have a free choise who to listen too.
For me...I look into the logs of them and I am showing them what they did wrong and where, In my opinion, they could improve.

If you have a diffrent opinion, post any helpful info for them instead of Mimimi everything I am suggesting. This would be more helpful for them, thx.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Bonita

[Andanas 0]

Wow, I didn't intend for this thread to start such a debate.  

 

Anyway, we killed Beast Lord again yesterday, and here's that log:

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ZrtKf9WYGvJ6mAqy#type=damage-done

 

An improvement for sure, but can be better.  I know the opener was very weak, and for a couple of reasons.  I didn't want to use all my star surges, and not have any starfall for the first beast pack, and the boss is almost immediately moved to where the packs come out, and out of range.  I also didn't use long term cooldowns as well as I could have.

[Shedim 13]

That is why I am telling him to stop thinking about his overall dps and start focusing on being a good raider. It's not about opinions, it's about someone coming to ask for help and us providing the best advice. If you like to dot the spears, fine by me. But it is certainly not the most optimal thing to do.

 

Andanas, compare your damage distribution to spears over time with mine (I know mythic differs a bit from heroic)

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ZrtKf9WYGvJ6mAqy#type=damage-done&target=138&source=12

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BAQpThRkMq8j2FxZ#fight=3&type=damage-done&source=61&target=91

 

As you can see, I am only focusing the spears once they are important (when they set on fire). Until then, they're completely irrelevant. Leave them be, so classes that get a single target dps increase from dotting the spears (like shadowpriests and demonology warlocks as example) can use them to increase their damage done on beastlord and the beasts. Depending on the raid composition you can even choose to ignore the pack beasts like I did (a lot of classes have passive cleave, which means they don't lose boss damage by killing the beasts. Boomkins lose a lot of boss damage by deciding to aoe, so only do so if absolutely needed because the tanks are otherwise struggling with the adds).

 

I am telling you this rather than correcting your actual gameplay, because the most important thing is to get your priorities straight, if you wish to become a good raider. Boomkins are strong on Beastlord because they provide excellent single target damage with the capability to switch to AoE damage once the spears become relevant to kill quickly. Many other classes can only do either, and need to decide beforehand by the choice of talents/spec. 

 

To get back to your original topic, I will try to provide some AoE advice for BRF (with emphasis on mythic difficulty):

 

Oregorger (credentials: World rank 2 mythic speed kill)

Euphoria for increased boss damage. During roll phase, run around and dot as many spears as you can. Displacer Beast can always get you out of any trouble. Try to keep Starfall up until most of the boxes have been killed, but keep in mind that the dot damage is the most significant. The obstacles in the room doesn't give you line of sight problems with the boss in this phase, so try to refresh your dots on the boss and get rid of excess starsurge procs. 

 

Beastlord (credentials: World rank 7 mythic on boss damage rankings)

Euphoria, especially for mythic difficulty where the entire fight is about the 1 minute single target nuke window at the end of the fight. Ignore spears at first, until right before he jumps on Dreadwing. From there and for the rest of the fight, apply your dots to they spears as they spawn and keep Starfall up. Make sure you position yourself near the center of the room, so your Starfall can actually hit all the spears. If add damage is absolutely needed, you can use Starfall as they spawn. Generally the adds are not a problem until the very last phase, where you keep Starfall up to kill the spears anyways. Using Sunfire on the adds can boost your add damage, but I wouldn't waste a global doing so as they should melt in seconds anyways. 

 

Flamebender (credentials: World rank 11 mythic on overall damage rankings)

Euphoria, no doubt. Use all cooldowns on pull, if you have the 4-piece bonus, your Celestial Alignment should be up again for the 1-minute dogs if you use heroism on pull (which you should). Precast Starfall as the dogs spawn and keep dots and Starfall rolling. Use second potion for the first set of dogs. Make sure your Starfall can actually hit all of them, if someone decides to kite them away from melee. Conserve your Celestial Alignment and your Incarnation as they come off cooldown and use them again for the 3:20-minute dogs. Third set of dogs should be ignored, as the boss should die around here. 

 

Operator Thogar (credentials: World rank 57 on mythic. Nothing special, but with a lot of warriors the adds melt before Starfall deals any significant damage)

Euphoria. Even though the heavy movement affects boomkins more than anyone else, we shine on this fight because of the many 3-target situations. When cannons arrive, dot them up and Starfall running. When adds arrive keep Starfall up, but don't dot them just focus on the boss. Try to save Celestial Alignment for when the Man-at-arms spawn. Once he spawns, precast Starfall, dot him and the firemender up, and then go single target nuts on the Man-at-arms. Position yourself places where nobody else can (like in the fire rings), to avoid too much movement due to people spawning grenades on you. You can do this, because of Displacer Beast. When the fire rings spawn for example, make sure to position yourself inside one. Few other people will be here. As you need to move lane, blink to another fire ring.

 

Kromog (credentials: Killed this at mythic, no stunning rankings as we have 3x Bladestorm, instantly killing the hands :/ )

Euphoria. Identify which hand positions are always the last ones to get killed. Precast Starfall and then try to dot all these up, so your dots last the longest possible (and so that you get these people out faster before they die). Rather spend time doing single target dps on hands with a lot of HP than dotting hands that will die in less than 5-6 seconds anyways. On mythic difficulty, your raid will bring a boomkin just because of the pillars. Make sure your Celestial Alignment are ALWAYS up for these. Time your eclipse bar with Astral Communion in a way, that allows you to dot the first pillar with both dots before the next one spawn, without using Celestial Alignment. (Eg. be in solar eclipse as the first pillar spawn, but time it so you move into lunar just as you have casted sunfire). As the second pillar spawns, precast Starfall, then use CA and apply both your dots to the second hand. As the third pillar spawns, dot it up and go full single target on this one. Consider ignoring refreshing your Starfall as it wears off, as single target damage on the third pillar is usually the issue. Starsurge gives you a lot of burst instead, but it depends on the situation. Ignore all damage on Kromog during this pillar phase, so try to refresh your dots on him before going into it. 

 

Iron Maidens (credentials: World rank 145 mythic kill, no stunning rankings as I'm on both ships)

Euphoria is the best talents here, because you want better single target nuke. If you're on the ship, this is no doubt the best talent. If you're not on the ship, you can consider BoP for slightly higher overall damage output. However, Euphoria is probably still better, because it enables you to help nuking Marak down faster and to kill the Turrets faster. This is more beneficial for progression. Once the content is on farm, you can switch to BoP for faster kills, as you know you're not in danger of wiping. 

 

An interesting alternative way of playing this fight is with Glyph of Celestial Alignment and Balance of Power. The idea is that you make your Celestial Alignment last for about a minute, only using charges on refreshing Starfall. In this way, you can have Celestial Alignment up for 1 minute. I did the math and calculated this to be a slight damage increase at the cost of very spread damage (you cannot control where this damage goes, which can be undesirable if you wish to nuke Marak quickly or kill Turrets faster). It makes your rotation much easier, especially when you have to dodge the turrets, as all you have to do is cast Starfall every 10 second. You get 8-9 globals in between where you have absolutely nothing to do (as using your Celestial Alignment charges on casting stuff would cause you to lose the buff). Use this time to put Rejuvenations on everyone. You can actually heal a significant amount. Consider using Heart of the Wild for this purpose, although Nature's Vigil provides about the same HPS if executed properly.

How do you execute this method? Before the bosses are brought below 20%, make sure to apply all yours dots on all targets before using Celestial Alignment. Try to hardcast Wraths, even in Lunar eclipse to extend your Sunfire (especially on Marak). As you bring them below 20%, cast Starfall THEN use Celestial Alignment. You now have 8 charges, of which 5 of them will be used to keep 100% uptime on Starfall. 2 of the charges should be used for the spawning turrets, and a last one can be used to refresh dots or cast a Starsurge. In between all this, spam Rejuvenations. You have plenty of mana for this. 

 

Blast Furnace (credentials: none, but got LFR rank 1 lol) 

This one is tricky, and I am myself progression on mythic here atm. First of all - this fight is a single target fight with several hard dps checks, disguised as an aoe/cleave fight. This is important to keep in mind. The dps checks are as follows:

1. Nuking Operators quickly

2. Killing Primal Elementalists within the window where the shield is down (1-2 windows depending on difficulty)

3. Killing the actual boss before the heat wipes your raid

 

Now, how do we tune our gameplay towards meeting these dps checks best? Euphoria is the answer. It gives us the ability to be near the top of the meters for single target nuke, as we can pool up 3 Starsurge charges. 

However, if your raid seems to struggle with killing the non-important adds (Security Guards, Engineers, Firecallers, as well as lowering the Slag Elementals to remove the Primal Elementalists' shield) Balance of Power might be the best talent of choice. If you feel you're getting overwhelmed by these adds, try Balance of Power. The optimal thing is still to use Euphoria though, as this allows you to reach phase 3 quicker. Also, I cannot emphasize this enough: do not use Starfall in phase 3. You see all these shiny boomkin rankings on warcraftlogs, but all they do is dotting the Slag Elementals in phase 3, when this isn't beneficial to the raid at all. If you want to be a good raider, be a bigger player than this. Ignore the dps charts, do what is needed to execute the mechanics properly.

Should you dot the adds throughout all the phases? This depends on your raid setup, your gear and the situation, so you need to figure this out yourself. I've listed the important dps checks, try to fulfill these. If you got plenty of dps on the Elementalists for example, feel free to start lowering the next Slags, by applying your dots and keeping Starfall up. On the other hand, if you struggle to kill the Primal Elementalists within the time the shield is down, disregard all aoe damage, even Starfall and try to nuke it as hard as you can. Boomkins should be near the top for single target nuke damage. 

Edited March 15, 2015 by Shedim

[Bonita 8]

sorry mate, I cant find a World rank 7 mythic on boss damage rankings for Beastlord...but ok if you say so, I will not doubt it

I just cant figure it out, why you..doing a 64k DPS with Starfall and Dots at spears at Beastlord while doing progress (1st/2nd kill), nowadays,a month later, decides to stop Starfall and Dot spears and do only 50k dps because of single... you bored?? ..But OK, its your decision.. I think its nuts.

And theres no real benefit for your guild becuase you single him...

And please dont say: "The fight will be over earlier if I do singletarget DPS" ...or I really must start laughing.

 

Well, I am not bored.. I am doing casual progress...2r/w ..with medium skilled people.. I do want max DPS. And ppl here also want it....I / We dont have the comfort you have in your 4r/w hardcore, we kill every boss a week after release, guild where your SPs, Mages, Locks etc are bad asses and do their 95% DPS....and are able to kill every damn spear spawned in just a few secs later in the fight...Nonono..medium skilled people need more time..:Time we/they dont have later when spears fire up..So, killing the spears "slowly" by DOT and Starfall prevents from lot of trouble later.

 

And generally said.... just because I am an casual raider (like the ones here looking for help), it doesnt mean everything I say is Bullshit and also doesnt mean everything you say is GOLD. If you think that way, i am sorry for you.

 

But to be fair and honest, i dont wanna fight you.. as already said..we are two diffrent thinking people. Its a forum...people have the choise who to listen to. And your suggestion for Maidens and CA-Glyph sounds interessting.

[Shedim 13]

Good point, why did I start out with dotting the spears on my initial kill and then stop on more recent ones? Because I didn't know better. We went in there on release date and killed it in a short time. When you haven't seen the fight before, you will by default start doing as much dps as you can. Not being on top of the exact mechanics, we just tried to kill the spears in a good pace. We've since then realized that the spears are a very low priority until they empower and using Starfall/dots to kill them early on serves absolutely no purpose at any level of play, even LFR. If you do this, it is purely to pad the meters because you think that is fun. That is alright with me, I will someday too try to get a good rank again and do it myself, but OP stated that he needed advice for boomkin AoE and that he did not wish to pad the meters. Then it doesn't matter if he is a casual player just playing once in a while or if he is raider looking to eventually compete for good ranks. I gave him the advice he asked for and the piece of advice you gave him "keep starfall up at all times", was not what he asked for. 

 

And please don't ridicule me, it is a poor way to try to win an argument. Wasting Starsurge procs on killing spears that would otherwise die from passive and free aoe damage WILL make the fight last longer, as you could've spent that time and those resources killing the boss quicker instead (eventually making sure your healers have more mana, making progression easier and reducing your chance of wiping). For the reference, here are the boss damage rankings for Beast Lord. It is not a super good metric either though, as the damage on the big beasts also matter and isn't included in these ranks.

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/7#boss=1694&metric=bossdps&class=Druid&spec=Balance

 

Now, you say this is a forum. I guess the purpose is to discuss tactics, rotations, talents and all things boomkin so that we can all become better players. Combined we can figure out more little tricks, benefit from each others experience and save time by using other people's work. I myself rerolled boomkin for BRF and not more than 2 months ago I was reading the guides here on icy-veins trying to learn the basics. I come here stating my opinions, not only to help, but also in hope that others might challenge these opinions and argue why they think differently, because I could be wrong about some of this advice I'm giving - I could've missed something, and I would like to know if that is the case.

 

Sadly it is not where I see this debate going. Whenever I state something different from what advice you're giving people, you quickly end the argument by saying that you're just casual players and this doesn't apply to you. I am not trying to shove things down your throat, but if you engage in a forum post on how to optimize one's gameplay, then discussing how to optimize should be the topic of the thread. As soon as someone disagrees with you, you cannot just end the argument. How can any of these people trust your advice, if you cannot argue why it is the optimal way to play?

 

I admire your passions and dedication for helping new boomkins becoming better players. You are helping a lot of people. Personally I don't have the patience to go over logs again and again to correct the same mistakes. But if you're going to correct players, why not give them the best possible advice? Why just settle for trying to teach them how to be a mediocre player. If someone is going to make drastic adaptations to their rotation and game style, they might as well get it right the first time. I can here mention the example of the Lunar/Solar peak buff discussion we had. Why advice people to change something in their rotation that isn't the optimal thing to do, why not just teach them the proper and most optimal way to play at first, when it is not any more difficult.