Elarion 6 Report post Posted March 24, 2015 Hi. My guild is semi-hardcore, we raid 5 days per week, we have about 35~ raiders. We using EpGp loot system. Every hour in raid awarded with EP. We using this EpGp settings: Main Spec - 100% GP Minor upgrade - 25% GP Greed - free Offspec - free Pass - no item Main problem - ppl dont want take better item for GP, but they want take items for free. Sometimes they do not take 700 item, couse it's not best. For example - rsham equipped ring 685itmlbl, and dropped 700 - he wont roll it, couse 700 have bad stats, but it minor upgrade for him. In other hand, sometimes ppl knows - noone will role item, and press "minor upgrade" or "greed" and recive 700 item for free, when their equipped is 685. I thougt about master loot, but here problem - ML shoud know every class and every spec, and shoud know BiS list fore everyone. Or it will be meanless. And EpGp good for attandence check, couse it shows raider activity. Looking for some advice. ps: someone can tell me addon/site to track attandece? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peelyon 416 Report post Posted March 26, 2015 Sadly no loot system is perfect - and there will always be players that moan / complain / try and get loot for "free". We are using EPGP at the moment and I "think" one of the problems you may have is the fact minors are giving GP. We run with MS = 100% Minor = free Offspec = free Anything 10+ ilvl we automatically consider a main spec upgrade - even if the green stats are worse - or its not BiS or fully optimised / whatever. That way if they take the 100% GP hit now - the next time a item in the same slot with the same ilvl drops they get it as a minor upgrade (as only green stat change) therefore they get it for free. In your system they could argue that the 10ilvl increase is a minor upgrade then when the better stats drop again its a minor upgrade. So in theory they are "cheating" the system as they only pay 50% for 2 items! Or they refuse to take even the 25% and want it for free as its "so bad". I don't know all of the stat priorities for every class / spec so this way its a lot easier for me to quickly work out (as I see the ilvl increase as ML - I can assign quickly without getting into a discussion about stats / prio / complaining about how many points they take) - ultimately and as a ML you will already know - theres no time for messing about with loot! The reason we give minor upgrades for free is so that they are encourage to take these 10-15 ilvl increases that have "bad" stats on them. Will try and explain a bit with examples. Example: Hunter item drops that is +15 ilvl than what they are currently wearing but has bad stats. The hunter sees it as a very minor upgrade (understandably as they want BiS green stats eventually) therefore hits minor upgrade. In your guild this = 25% GP My guild this = free Next week another boss drops an item for the same slot at the same ilvl but better stats therefore as its only stat change they hit minor upgrade In your guild this = 25% GP My guild this = free So basically the hunter who believes these two items are minor upgrades (which they arguably are to him and his toon) he would only pay 50% GP in your guild or 0(!!!!) in mine. Thats why we FORCE players to take the GP at 100% for anything 10ilvl+ that way using the same example the hunter would take 100% GP for the first item and 0% for the second in my guild. That way they are still only paying 100% for the upgrade they really wanted. In your guild if you force them to take the ilvl upgrade at 100% and then an additional 25% for a minor they are paying 125% for the item they really wanted. Just read that back and it doesnt really read very well - but hopefully you understand where I'm coming from. Players will always try and "cheat the system" and use the fact you aren't entirely sure of stat priorities (even if you are you dont have the time to check what they have on what the item has thats dropped etc and make an informed decision if 5 items drop and the group has moved on to trash elsewhere etc). So keep it simple and just use that initial item level increase for base stats as the reason to award GP. Be firm with the group and tell them you expect them to take an increase whenever an item drops for them - not to "greed" or "offspec" or "minor" because they REALLY want the tier chest from next boss etc. Ultimately your players should play for the guild - and if anyone was that selfish about loot I'd show them the door tbh regardless of how good they are or crucial to your team! You could in theory still award the 25% for minor upgrades - as they are still using an item, but we find with our group its very rare that more than one player needs a minor upgrade at the same time. Sorry for the rant - its funny you posted this as we had a "discussion" (me telling people what to do in my dictatorship :P) about EPGP and players being reluctant to take upgrades etc. Hope that helps TL:DR - force players to take 100% GP for anything over 10+ ilvl regardless if the stats are bad are not! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elarion 6 Report post Posted March 26, 2015 Thank you for reply. I didnt thought about 0GP for minor, but your logic is right, better give it for 0GP, couse player already payed GP for this gear. One more problem here - if for some person this is BiS, and for another not. They both roll it for MainSpec, and for player with highest raiting this equip isn't BiS. He will take this gear, and other player will take another gear(from another boss) also not BiS for him. I am thinking about butoons(epgpLootmaster), so it will be easier destribute loot. Couse they both press "mainSpec" but in chat they start telling "it's not bis for me, if someone need it more bla bla bla". So shoud we do buttons like BiS(100% Gp), MainSpec(100% Gp), MinorUpgrade(0 GP). I think button Greed usless, couse we already have "Pass". What buttons using you? About "play for guild" i totaly agree with you. But some ppl start complain about loot, and there lot of reasons - they want higer itmlvl for higher position on recount, or they just want this 700itmlvl(higher number), or it looks great, or another reason... I never understand this, but in guild raids or pug-raids loot always was problem as i coud remember. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peelyon 416 Report post Posted March 26, 2015 You can create extra buttons for sure - BiS isnt actually a bad button tbh! Might discuss that with my officers and use that myself. I suppose a lot depends on your guild dynamic and how well you are friends / a team. I passed on 685 BiS weapon as healer because our other healer only had a 655 main hand and it was a HUGE upgrade for him - even though my PR was higher. Stuff like set pieces etc we generally confirm / check if it will give 2 set bonus etc first - and people are generally happy to pass to give the group and extra 2/4 set bonus etc. But thats just the guild I've made and I always say every expac / tier that pruples arent everything - the guild working together is :) EPGP just helps to give a more even distribution of loot - rather than /roll where 1 person ends up with like 5 items. Helps cover yourself and the group if that person who wins the 5 items then gquits or stops playing. Just have an open discussion with your officers and the group and tell them how it is! Some people just need to be told / bopped on the head! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
