question about stamina and crit

[spartiate 2]

Hello,

I read carefully all the guides on this site for wartank and i have a question:

 

Mastery is priority number one but when i look at askmister robot and i choose best in slot,it comes up with a stamina trinket and enchanting my rings with critical strike.

It also advice to place stamina in socket.

 

So is misterrobot wrong ?

Thank you

 

Spårtiate -hyjal EU

[Estarriol 167]

I'd recommend gemming and enchanting crit.. The stam trinkets are pretty bad. I'd recommend Tablet of Turnbuckle Teamwork and Blast Furnace Door.

 

Edit: Crit. I meant crit.

[spartiate 2]

Thanx Estarriol that's what i'm doing at the moment ,enchanting and gemming mastery.

I have the blast furnace door and the trinket armor bonus of pol.

[spartiate 2]

hello i must add something.

In the icy veins' guide ,it is advised to eat stamina and to take a health flask.Would'nt it be better to eat mastery and to take a force flask?

I have another question ,about bladestorm:

I think i can hear my shield blocking some hits when i go bladestorm but i'm not sure.

So can we still block,parry and dodge while performing bladestorm?

Thank you

Spårtiate Hyjal EU

[Estarriol 167]

I would recommend crit food and strength flask. I typoed on the last reply. I meant gem and enchant crit.

 

You can indeed block while Bladestorming, as well as dodging and parrying.

[spartiate 2]

ok thank you very much for the answer Estarriol.

Another question though ;)

I have the 4 part t17 ,what do you recommend as off set?The torso?

[Estarriol 167]

I use the hands. The secondaries on the set chest are better than the secondaries on the set gloves, so you get a bit more benefit from the off-set gloves.

[spartiate 2]

ok thank you very much Estarriol

[Ballharder 1]

I use the hands. The secondaries on the set chest are better than the secondaries on the set gloves, so you get a bit more benefit from the off-set gloves.

 

A couple questions.  Is it the general consensus that Crit is >> Mastery? (and if so why is that not what the guide says?) I've been going by the logic that Mastery >= Crit >= Vers > Mult = Haste.  By that logic the gloves are roughly = to the chest.

 

Related, as long as the gloves or shoulders of a set do not have 2 undesirable stats, isn't it usually a better idea to replace a "main" piece (helm/chest/pants) as they have higher stat values?

 

In this specific example I would assume you're using Gauntlets of Dramatic Blows (129 crit/146 mastery).  So you're giving up 129 crit for 122 ms and 4 mastery to use the tier gloves (150 mastery/122MS).  If you use the tier chest (186 crit/186 haste) you're getting 186 of a "bad" stat rather than 122.  You could use Chestplate of Rolling Fury (194 vers/172 mastery) or Bloodsoaked Heart Protector (154 crit/204 mastery) or craft a chest with 186 crit/186 mastery.  You're getting no "bad" stat on an item giving ~180 instead of ~120.  Seems quite a bit better to me, even if the values of the "good" and "bad" stats aren't quite the same.

 

EDIT: I'll add I'm fairly new to tanking in WOD so I'm just asking questions based on mostly my own lines of thought... so one more.  I was gemming/enchanting crit before I got my 2/4pc, but thought the set bonuses probably increased the value of mastery due to higher shield block uptime and block value (critical block being the main beneficiary of mastery and these two effects).  Is that not the case?

Edited April 2, 2015 by Ballharder

[Moozedude 47]

Is the Str flask because of the parry, which for Warriors is probably stronger than the larger health pool from Stam?

[spartiate 2]

Mozzedude

I don't think strength increase  parry rating but crit does.

I think str flask for more damage/threat

[Furiacki 1]

A couple questions.  Is it the general consensus that Crit is >> Mastery? (and if so why is that not what the guide says?) I've been going by the logic that Mastery >= Crit >= Vers > Mult = Haste.  By that logic the gloves are roughly = to the chest.

 

Related, as long as the gloves or shoulders of a set do not have 2 undesirable stats, isn't it usually a better idea to replace a "main" piece (helm/chest/pants) as they have higher stat values?

 

In this specific example I would assume you're using Gauntlets of Dramatic Blows (129 crit/146 mastery).  So you're giving up 129 crit for 122 ms and 4 mastery to use the tier gloves (150 mastery/122MS).  If you use the tier chest (186 crit/186 haste) you're getting 186 of a "bad" stat rather than 122.  You could use Chestplate of Rolling Fury (194 vers/172 mastery) or Bloodsoaked Heart Protector (154 crit/204 mastery) or craft a chest with 186 crit/186 mastery.  You're getting no "bad" stat on an item giving ~180 instead of ~120.  Seems quite a bit better to me, even if the values of the "good" and "bad" stats aren't quite the same.

 

EDIT: I'll add I'm fairly new to tanking in WOD so I'm just asking questions based on mostly my own lines of thought... so one more.  I was gemming/enchanting crit before I got my 2/4pc, but thought the set bonuses probably increased the value of mastery due to higher shield block uptime and block value (critical block being the main beneficiary of mastery and these two effects).  Is that not the case?

 

I believe the thinking for gloves as the offset is likely because the Tier gloves have multi - which is by far our worst stat, vs chest with crit/haste.  Haste is stronger (but still quite weak).  Also Estarriol appears to be a big fan of crit so that likely plays into her decision (same with gemming & consumables of mastery vs crit).  Her line of thinking that I have gleaned from another thread is that we have boatloads of mastery, but crit is less common on our gear.  She seems to have sound logic concerning this.

 

Neither gearing strategy is "wrong" and there is no way to definitively determine if one is better than the other as it is all subjective, and will vary from fight to fight.  It is basically 6 of one and half-dozen of the other.

 

I personally gem crit on my non bonus armor pieces (because I use those for DPS) but enchant/gem mastery on my tank only pieces.

[Moozedude 47]

Mozzedude

I don't think strength increase  parry rating but crit does.

I think str flask for more damage/threat

 

Str doesn't increase parry rating.  It increases raw parry, prior to rating and diminishing returns.  It appears to convert at about 200 Str per 1% parry, meaning the flask would be 1% parry increase.

 

Seeing as, far as I can tell, the conversation is about what is best for tanking, in which survival > dps, I was looking to the defensive gains of a Str flask over the survival gain of a Stam flask.

 

My concern is, while I'm not scared of being one-shot like in SoO, am I worried that since I have no healing to speak of, I need to survive long enough for my heals to notice I'm dying and put some love my way.  Speaking of which, our T2 heal choice is a percentage of health, so more stam means a bigger heal, even if it is proportionally equal.

[spartiate 2]

Moozedude,

i'm french so i don't quite understand what "raw parry " means.

Could you explain this a little?

Thanx ;)

[Moozedude 47]

So, "raw" parry is the parry derived not from rating.  Basically, when you hover over your parry stat in the character pane, it says what % you have, and at the bottom says how much rating, and how much % from rating.  You will see that this rating is equal to your crit rating.  You will also see this rating % is not equal to your total parry.  This is because a majority of your parry is actually from your strength, and I called it "raw" parry.

 

As a test for verification, have your character pane open and scrolled to defenses, so parry is visible.  Then, use a strength potion (worth 1000 str).  You will see your parry jump about 5%, representing the increase in "raw" parry due to strength.  This increase is not subject to diminishing returns, as it is not rating.

[spartiate 2]

thanx Moozedude

i have a better understanding of parry now

[Estarriol 167]

 

Is it the general consensus that Crit is >> Mastery? (and if so why is that not what the guide says?) I've been going by the logic that Mastery >= Crit >= Vers > Mult = Haste.  By that logic the gloves are roughly = to the chest.

 

Crit>Mastery to a point due to DR. Additionally, Crit>Mastery>>Vers>Haste>>Multi

 

Multistrike is absolutely atrocious. Haste is merely lackluster.

 

 

Related, as long as the gloves or shoulders of a set do not have 2 undesirable stats, isn't it usually a better idea to replace a "main" piece (helm/chest/pants) as they have higher stat values?

 

Again, haste can pretend to be useful, multistrike can't. Additionally, there are several pieces in BRF where we cannot get crit (neck, back, wrist, waist, shoulders), leaving warriors in significantly more need of crit than mastery. Looking at raw stats of single pieces fails to encompass the total stats you have overall and the balance thereof.

 

 

I'll add I'm fairly new to tanking in WOD so I'm just asking questions based on mostly my own lines of thought... so one more.  I was gemming/enchanting crit before I got my 2/4pc, but thought the set bonuses probably increased the value of mastery due to higher shield block uptime and block value (critical block being the main beneficiary of mastery and these two effects).  Is that not the case?

 

Warriors are fine within the uptime of shield block. It provides sufficient protection on its own. Where we are incredibly, painfully weak is outside of that uptime. Thus, the static block given by mastery is more important, as is the parry given by crit. Further, if you can get a roughly equal %parry per crit rating as you are getting %static block from mastery rating, then crit is superior. Basically, if you can parry 4 attacks out of 20 OR block 4 attacks out of 20, the parry is superior. Where mastery begins to win out is when you can parry 4/20 OR block 8/20 (or so).

 

Right now, I have 1398 crit on my warrior, giving me 8.63% parry and 2377 mastery, giving me 14% block. If I take off enough gear to basically even out mastery and crit without losing any crit, then I have mastery giving me 10% and crit giving me 8.63% parry. Thus, you can see that my mastery, over 100 hits, will give me roughly 10 blocks and my crit will give me roughly 8-9 parries. Even if all 10 of those blocks crit block, I am still getting more mileage from my parry. Total damage reduction is not always superior because it's better to reduce more hits for less than reduce a few hits by 100%, however, if you have equal chances to reduce by a fraction or reduce entirely, then it is better to reduce entirely. Not sure that makes sense, but hopefully.

 

Also, the 2/4p doesn't increase the strength of mastery, they just increase the strength of shield block. It is outside of shield block that we need to plan and gear for because shield barrier is painfully weak.

 

 

Is the Str flask because of the parry, which for Warriors is probably stronger than the larger health pool from Stam?

 

The parry's a nice perk, but it's actually for the attack power. The stam's pretty lackluster, but the attack power helps make shield barrier slightly less pathetic.

 

 

My concern is, while I'm not scared of being one-shot like in SoO, am I worried that since I have no healing to speak of, I need to survive long enough for my heals to notice I'm dying and put some love my way.  Speaking of which, our T2 heal choice is a percentage of health, so more stam means a bigger heal, even if it is proportionally equal.

 

We'd need roughly all the stam from all of the gear in all the World of Warcraft for it to make a significant difference in our self heals.

[Ballharder 1]

Thanks for taking the time to respond; everything you said makes sense except one thing...haste; I must be missing something?  It's just the GCD reduction right?  To me that means it's pretty much useless outside of getting like 1-2 pieces to help with latency.  Further than that you would need to get 25% to fit in an extra spell between shield slams.  I get that it's probably fine to delay our rotation even at like ~15-20%, but we aren't coming close to that number at current gear levels.  What am I missing?  The auto attacks have got to be about the same threat as multistrike... and while the heal is minimal from Blood Thirst at least it's something?

[Moozedude 47]

Aha, thanks for the AP note.  I forgot about SBarr scaling, as that ability has been almost an afterthought...  Either I use it when I have nothing else to do (which is weird, 'cause, you know, HS), or I use it when magic damage is heavy.  WTB ability to block spells (silly pally).

 

The stam = heals thing was mostly tongue-in-cheek.  I know the stacking of the stam thing is not awesome.  It just amused me.

[Furiacki 1]

Thanks for taking the time to respond; everything you said makes sense except one thing...haste; I must be missing something?  It's just the GCD reduction right?  To me that means it's pretty much useless outside of getting like 1-2 pieces to help with latency.  Further than that you would need to get 25% to fit in an extra spell between shield slams.  I get that it's probably fine to delay our rotation even at like ~15-20%, but we aren't coming close to that number at current gear levels.  What am I missing?  The auto attacks have got to be about the same threat as multistrike... and while the heal is minimal from Blood Thirst at least it's something?

 

Haste reduces the CD on shield slam at an equal proportion so you get the same # of shield slams per x GCDs

[Estarriol 167]

Haste reduces the CD on shield slam at an equal proportion so you get the same # of shield slams per x GCDs

 

Precisely. Thus, it gives you more rage. It also decreases the CD of Thunder Clap, which is good for AoE.

 

 

Aha, thanks for the AP note.  I forgot about SBarr scaling, as that ability has been almost an afterthought...  Either I use it when I have nothing else to do (which is weird, 'cause, you know, HS), or I use it when magic damage is heavy.  WTB ability to block spells (silly pally).

 

The stam = heals thing was mostly tongue-in-cheek.  I know the stacking of the stam thing is not awesome.  It just amused me.

 

WTB SBar buff! I'd be okay with not blocking magic if they'd buff Sbar. x.x

[Furiacki 1]

Static 5% damage reduction is nice, but I was hoping to see more out of 6.2 for us.