6.2 Buffs/Nerfs

[Gwennie 0]

So, what would bring the three specs into rough parity, such that you could reasonably choose any of them (not necessarily on every fight)? I really want to learn and play as demo, but don't want to hold back any group I'm in because I'm being stubborn. I'd assume that blizzard is not actually intending to make a spec unplayable. Is it possible they know something we don't?

[spikeysquad 50]

Perhaps they do Gwennie and personally I really hope so as I will miss playing Demo, the leap and its mobility. I'll be first to admit that Demo cleaving and AoE burst needs a look at and some of that will be better anyhow once we drop our current 4 set. For me though I actually value single target (ST) damage more. Currently all warlock specs with say BIS gear and a bit of luck can do very similar ST damage (assuming low movement). Also be aware that of all classes/specs warlocks are not usually top on this kind of fight by any means either.

 

So Demo on the PTR  now has a 25% nerf to SF, CW/HoG, Doom and SB/ToC all of which are used in our ST rotation. In addition our mastery has also been nerfed by 4% which affects pet damage and meta spell damage. One of our DoTs has been buffed actually by 12% and I just checked but that is only accounting for about 5% of top ranked peoples' damage anyhow on something like Mythic Gruul so that's quite insignificant. Destro so far has no changes and Affliction actually gets all 3 DoTs buffed.

 

The PTR big changes were released at the end of April and I believe that the only change has been yet another nerf (the HoG one) and perhaps one other before to Demo(?) So if there is some greater plan then Blizz are not being very open about it or quick in doing anything about it. All specs will be playable but the question for most raiders is what will be competitive. Before the Demonbolt nerf for example Affliction and Destro didn't get a look in and still now Demo overshadows them in the majority of situations. Such a heavy handed Demo nerf though seems to suggest currently it will be unusable if we want to be on an even keel with everyone else. 

[vaeevictiss 17]

this shit just makes me so upset every time i see it lol. I used to be hardcore Affliction (hense the sig). I hadnt played demo since burning crusade. I shit you not, i dont believe my lock ever went demon form until WoD. I ended up playing it because i had to since destro and aff became shit. 

 

I love it...i love the playstyle, the stance dancing, and Demonic Leap is probably the best ability in the game lol. This is such a kick in the balls.

 

Its like the people at blizzard dont even understand...

 

"waa waa not enough people play demo, lets buff it"

 

"yay, we got people to play demo...ok, lets really just fuck it up so no one wants to play it again"

 

 

Im just waiting to see an updated patch note:

 

"Demonology has been removed. In its place we added a new 3 minute cooldown called "Remember What it Used to be Like". This will make players hands glow with green fire for 25 seconds to make it look like you are about to cast something really cool. This spell has a chance to occasionally transform you into a demon for 5 seconds or Mike Morheim rolling in a pile of money for 10 seconds".

Edited May 21, 2015 by vaeevictiss

[taliesin52 3]

Im just waiting to see an updated patch note:

 

"Demonology has been removed. In its place we added a new 3 minute cooldown called "Remember What it Used to be Like". This will make players hands glow with green fire for 25 seconds to make it look like you are about to cast something really cool. This spell has a chance to occasionally transform you into a demon for 5 seconds or Mike Morheim rolling in a pile of money for 10 seconds".

 

Patch Notes:

* Fixed a persistent issue where Demonology warlocks were doing damage.

[Scathbais 1]

Did Demo just get buffed and is it significant given the spell specific nerfs?

 

Mastery: Master Demonologist now increases damage dealt by the Warlock and their demon servants by 1.25% per mastery (up from 0.96%), and further increases damage dealt by Touch of Chaos, Chaos Wave, Doom, Immolation Aura, and Soul Fire while in Metamorphosis by 2.5% per mastery (up from 1.92%). has decreased in effectiveness by 4%.

[Anja 0]

It is just a flat buff to mastery and it will not offset the 25% nerf to Demonology spells, even if you were to have mastery present in every slot.

I do find their approach of buffing mastery's effectiveness per-point to be a little odd.

[Scathbais 1]

It is just a flat buff to mastery and it will not offset the 25% nerf to Demonology spells, even if you were to have mastery present in every slot.

I do find their approach of buffing mastery's effectiveness per-point to be a little odd.

Actually I think it does offset it, but it means we really need to stack mastery over everything else.

Our damage and our pets damage per point of mastery went up by 30% and additionally in meta our spells hit 30% harder per point of mastery.  

 

I think this is either a net wash or maybe even a buff, but I am not a theory crafter so don't really know for sure.

[Anja 0]

Assuming mastery present for every slot at mythique HFC item level it would be safe to eyeball it as a wash, until then it will not offset or surpass the 25% damage reduction.

Basically this will mean that demo becomes heavily gear-reliant and will remain unfeasible until the previously mentioned gear benchmark. Mastery will, obviously, gain even more priority going forward (greater than spellpower but still behind buffed intellect).

It will still play out as a net loss in 700-706 ilvl gear and below, indisputably.

tangentially related : return of demonbolt ?

[spikeysquad 50]

Being no theory crafter either crossing fingers that Demo will still be viable however ideally not in Demonbolt form... 

[Thrazen 0]

tangentially related : return of demonbolt ?

If most of our Demonic Energy building spells are getting a nerf, but mastery is getting a buff, I would say yes. If I'm not mistaken, this will turn us into a very nuke heavy class in little windows. I don't know if that will offset everything else taking a hit, but here's hoping.

[vaeevictiss 17]

I really dont get what they are doing. 

 

We already were middle of the road. Only fight locks could consistently dominate is Thogarr. Sure, there are your greats that pull it off, but on average, Thogarr is the one that we really excelled at. 

 

So they decide to nerf the only spec that really work, aside from Borefliction as a close contender. Now they want to give back some trivial buff, that will only benefit top tier raiders. 

 

Its basically like they are saying, "Oh you want to play Demo? Well you better get in a Mythic guild".

[Anja 0]

If you are not pursuing top-tier content during its initial relevance, your choice of spec is then largely a matter of preference.

You can absolutely complete Heroic difficulty and lower as Demonology if so you please. You would not do as well, but nothing below mythique is tuned so tightly that your choice of spec will be the deciding factor in success.

I also do not understand why you entirely neglect Destruction in your assessment; it is already performing admirably at easily-attainable levels of gear (Heroic-BrF with tier and GSR) and is only set to improve as more Mastery becomes available.

"Borefliction" is also receiving pretty substantial buffs which will easily make it a competitive spec.

I would say that you are overreacting pretty heavily to the changes ; give it a chance to go live and see how it plays.

[vaeevictiss 17]

I call it borefliction because ive played since vanilla and i know how it used to be. It used to be fun but they gutted it. Buff or no buff the playstyle isnt changing. The thing is, i WANT to play demo, but really shouldn't if there is a better spec. I shouldnt have to be mythic geared for the spec to pull its own weight in a raid.

Edited June 3, 2015 by vaeevictiss

[Anja 0]

because it was so much more interesting in vanilla.

[vaeevictiss 17]

it was

 

Look, you dont have to agree with everything blizzard does and try to justify it. Its ok to complain when unnecessary nerfs were made.

Edited June 3, 2015 by vaeevictiss

[Anja 0]

I don't agree with it.

I find it pointless to make long, empty, melodramatic monologues about my yearning for days past and my dissatisfaction with things I have no ability to alter.

Constructive feedback is fine. I do not really see much of that being provided by the most vocal protesters.

I cannot seriously consider your posts when they are prefaced with "I've played since ____" and you entirely omit a perfectly competitive spec from your analysis of the performance of the class.

If you do have anything pertinent to the actual changes being discussed in here, that would be a great thing to talk about. Otherwise there are a great number of alternate outlets to vent your frustrations.

[vaeevictiss 17]

Thats all any discussion is here is, is venting. If the only reason to discuss or vent here was to make changes happen then none of these forums would even exist. 

 

Blizzard reps arent going to scour endless forums looking for things people are upset about, they are going to look on their forum. So what exactly is it you expect to accomplish here?

 

And it is pertinent to bring up previous iterations of builds so you can compare what was gained and what was lost. Quite frankly it is really the only way to compare.

[Lockybalboa 618]

Thats all any discussion is here is, is venting.

 

You're thinking of Reddit. The primary purpose of the forums here is for people to share information and knowledge and in so doing raise the level of their personal ability, the evolution of the class, and provide information that otherwise might be lost.

 

 

Blizzard reps arent going to scour endless forums looking for things people are upset about, they are going to look on their forum. So what exactly is it you expect to accomplish here?

 

They have and they do. They have stated multiple times in blue posts over the years that they regularly look at fansites for information about the community and to see what we have turned up relating to the game. Point of fact there have been a few instances where Zag has posted on these forums about number fixes/changes and within 3 weeks Blizzard released a hotfix tuning Warlocks by exactly what was posted. Although it is rare to see this kind of change, it does happen. 

 

It should never be assumed that we are unheard, we might be ignored, disregarded, or unaccredited, but we are not unheard. 

[vaeevictiss 17]

somebody may have posted it on their forums as well. They even have also said that if people have concerns to state it on their forums.

 

they shouldnt need fansites to know they gutted not only the most viable spec, but also the most fun-to-play spec.

Edited June 3, 2015 by vaeevictiss

[taliesin52 3]

somebody may have posted it on their forums as well. They even have also said that if people have concerns to state it on their forums.

 

they shouldnt need fansites to know they gutted not only the most viable spec, but also the most fun-to-play spec.

 

I think they knew what they did to Demo, 25% is a big number, and while that seems to be Blizzard's way to handle all decisions, I doubt they were ignorant that it would be a masive nerf.  This is probably why we've seen the reversion of the mastery nerf followed by a substantial mastery buff.  As for fun to play, that's a very subjective thing.  For me fun to play was early MoP Affliction on council fights with multi-dotting insanity.  Soul Swap for days! 

 

Blizzard may not need fan sites to give them information, but it sure as heck doesn't hurt.  Any good company is going to look at every source of information and feedback available.  To be honest, the Blizzard forums are damn near useless for feedback.  Trolling and crappy attitudes are rampant, and you have to sort through piles of manure to find gold.  In contrast many fan sites, this one foremost are full of high quality feedback and discussion while also keeping the petty BS arguing and whining to a minimum.  "Blizzard ruined X because... .reasons!" is the the standard on their forums, and is rarely if ever seen here.

[Zagam 1,982]

SUP YA'LL! 

 

I'M BAAAAACKKKK! 

 

Working on some shit but I got a lot of work to do tomorrow to update the guide - holy shit is it out of date.  Got some yummy trinket analyses and some other updates to get rocking for 6.2. 

[Lockybalboa 618]

SUP YA'LL! 

 

I'M BAAAAACKKKK! 

 

Working on some shit but I got a lot of work to do tomorrow to update the guide - holy shit is it out of date.  Got some yummy trinket analyses and some other updates to get rocking for 6.2. 

 

 

Nerd.

 

Welcome back bro.

[Liarparadox 5]

Welcome back! Can't wait for the updates!!

[Soulzar 42]

Woot, Zagam the IV Traffic magnet is back!

 

 

So far, the Mastery buffs look to have pulled Demo out of the gutter.  Its fairly clear that Affliction will be top dog Single target this tier, even if its nerfed.  Its by far an outlier right now and I expect to stay top.

 

I am curious however.... The few cleave fights...  Is Demo now comparable to Destro?  The Mastery buff should have made Cata stronger, despite HoG nerfs.  I am not familiar enough with the mechanics of the fights to have an idea of which specs toolkit will be optimal.

 

Demo would Synergize with Aff gearing much better than Destro .. if I could keep it as my second spec... i would be a happy Lock.  Is SIMC 6.2 apl at the point yet where it can do basic multi target T18 sims?

[Zagam 1,982]

I am curious however.... The few cleave fights...  Is Demo now comparable to Destro?  The Mastery buff should have made Cata stronger, despite HoG nerfs.  I am not familiar enough with the mechanics of the fights to have an idea of which specs toolkit will be optimal.

 

Demo would Synergize with Aff gearing much better than Destro .. if I could keep it as my second spec... i would be a happy Lock.  Is SIMC 6.2 apl at the point yet where it can do basic multi target T18 sims?

Gahhda gave me a 612-03 Simcraft for me to dick around with.  I'll be doing that tonight and some on Sunday just to look at trinkets, multiple target scenarios, etc.  

 

From a thought point, it's going to depend on what the encounter brings.  Fight like Thogar with short bursts of AoE?  Demo still probably wins.  Slightly longer sustained AoE?  Destro will pull out.  I haven't looked at any of the fights in HFC yet outside of the picture of the boss, so I can't say one way or another what spec looks ideal for it.  I'm also not 100% sure they're done with class balance iterations.  I really can't see Affliction staying where it is, but then again, Arcane is simming above 110k, so who knows.