Gearing out of Tier 17 (Destro)

[PJabbers688 0]

Hello. I've been playing a Warlock since Vanilla, but have only gotten into serious guild-organized raiding this expansion. As such, I now have an incentive to perform as well as my class will allow, but I'm also not well-versed on how to properly transition from one tier to another gear-wise.

 

My question is: when do I start replacing my tier 17 gear with gear of higher ilvl?

 

I have all 5 tier 17 pieces. I wear only four at a time, to get the four-piece bonus, since I have better stuff in my bags for the 5th slot. Four of the pieces are from Normal, so ilvl 670, while one is from Heroic, so ilvl 685. As I play in 6.2, I am finding gear in the high 600's and low 700's. So in many cases, replacing a piece of tier gear results in 30 or so additional ilvls for the slot. But that Chaos Bolt multistrike from the four-piece tier 17 bonus is just so awesome, so I've been just keeping the higher-ilvl stuff in my bags for now (replacing the 5th slot mentioned earlier, and changing around which slot that is, if it results in a net ilvl and mastery increase).

 

Do I need to run a simcraft every time I get a new piece of gear? Or do I simply never replace tier 17 stuff until I have tier 18 stuff? If the latter, do I start replacing once I can get the tier 18 two-piece bonus, or wait until I can get the four-piece bonus?

 

Thank you very much for your time.

 

EDIT: In case having my armory would be useful at all.

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/earthen-ring/Jexton/simple

Edited June 29, 2015 by PJabbers688

[Recklessfear 33]

Unsure on the breaking of t17 for non-tier pieces. I'd guess 2 levels of raid (ie. replacing normal piece with mythic), but it could vary per piece.  Remember, don't ALWAYS go for the int. However, sometimes enough int will beat it out. Be sure to sim your character via simulationcraft.

 

If replacing t17 with t18 tier, 2pc and 2pc is better than 4pc t17 for destro

[Astynax 24]

I haven't seen the math, so take what I'm about to point out with a grain of salt. Generally speaking, you don't drop tier bonuses until it's 1. Very worth it (we're talking more than just 30 ilvls) or 2. You get the new tier. So, in other words. Replace non set whenever you can. Replace tier set when you get the 2 pc.

Again, I'm guessing, but instant cast chaos bolts... It's like a wet dream.

[spikeysquad 50]

Not quite instant cast. It's only 0.5 seconds less I believe. 

[Liquidsteel 279]

Even if it was below the GCD it's still not technically instant - you still have to stand still to cast it.

[Astynax 24]

Even if it was below the GCD it's still not technically instant - you still have to stand still to cast it.

 

My bad. The thread I saw had it as a 2.5 reduc. I haven't looked at any of the new pieces yet. Still trying to get back in swing. 

 

Still, it's a 20% DPIT buff. (if I'm mathing right?).

[PJabbers688 0]

Thanks for your responses, everyone. It really helped me figure out which pieces to spend Apexis and profession mats on last night.

 

So I will ignore any non-tier pieces for the five tier slots, and I will only replace tier 17 pieces when I get get the tier 18 set bonus.

[Vomitory 0]

If replacing t17 with t18 tier, 2pc and 2pc is better than 4pc t17 for destro

 

I am doing significantly less DPS with this combo. I don't think that's so much of a benefit to ditch them. However I did ditch Mythic T17 for Normal T18. But regardless, I've dropped drastically in overall DPS. Not so much on AoE necessarily but the lack of triple-MS procs has been questionable... tempted to go on B.net and restore the pieces I disenchanted until I get the Heroic tier pieces.

[Liquidsteel 279]

It depends on the ilvl and stats of the pieces. I'm still rocking 4pc T17 but I missed a week of raiding and only have two pieces of T18, one of which is from normal.

Both simcraft and in game experience showed 4pc t17 to be stronger than 2x 2pc until the ilvl disparity came into play.

[Zagam 1,982]

I am doing significantly less DPS with this combo. I don't think that's so much of a benefit to ditch them. However I did ditch Mythic T17 for Normal T18. But regardless, I've dropped drastically in overall DPS. Not so much on AoE necessarily but the lack of triple-MS procs has been questionable... tempted to go on B.net and restore the pieces I disenchanted until I get the Heroic tier pieces.

Define "significantly."  Because you shouldn't have lost that much DPS going from 700 Mythic Tier 17 pieces to 695 Normal Tier 18 pieces.  You should have lost a tiny bit, not anything significant like 5-6k.  

 

The theoretical value of T17 4p is completely tied to RNG.  When you fill an ember, you have a CHANCE to get Multistrike procs.  Because of RNG, you'll see varying amounts of DPS tied to this set bonus.  There is no absolute approximate value this set bonus is worth because RNG can be fickle or it can throw vast amounts of procs at you.

 

The theoretical value of T18 2p is NOT RNG.  It's a flat gain.  It reduces the cast time of Chaos Bolt by 0.5 seconds, which isn't affected by Haste diminishing returns, and boosts the damage by 2%.  If you're using Charred Remains (duh), then you can see that a high amount of time is spent casting Chaos Bolt.  Every Chaos Bolt cast finish enables you to move faster, start building embers faster, and increase your damage.  Without the 2pc, you can't start a Chaos Bolt cast and finish it before moving from Death Throes on Kilrogg - with the 2pc bonus, you can do it.  This is one raid example.  Keep in mind that Fire and Brimstone Chaos Bolts are also affected by this set bonus, so your AoE is sped up INCREDIBLY.  For AoE on a fight like Socrethar, you're theoretically getting an entire bonus wave of Chaos Bolts every 4 Chaos Bolt casts because of the recovery of Burning Embers and the quicker casts.  More damage, faster.  Always.  No RNG.  The value of a set bonus isn't always tied to the end throughput of DPS in a patchwerk simulation.  You have to keep in mind what it allows you to do in niche situations.  If you HATE having your Chaos Bolt interrupted because of a raid mechanic and equally hate standing in bad shit, this set bonus allows you a lot of flexibility in finishing your cast.

 

The theoretical value of T18 4p is RNG.  It's basically saying you can expect 1 free Chaos Bolt every 8.5 Chaos Bolts.  Look at your logs of fights to see how many Chaos Bolts you get in a fight.  If you get 45 Chaos Bolts in a fight, this set bonus would be expected to give you, on average, 5 free Chaos Bolts.  You could get 10.  You could get 2.  

[Curinir 4]

Zagam, my only issue with this is that it takes 50 of the 2% empowered Chaos Bolts from the T18 2pc to equal one triple multistrike from the T17 4pc. Unless you've really pissed of RNGsus, then you should be getting a lot more than one T17 4pc proc every 50 Chaos Bolts.

 

Also, FnB Chaos Bolts can do the triple multistrike as well, meaning the damage you do with it is exponentially higher with more targets. Havoc affects it too, so if you get a Havoc off with T17 4pc, then you essentially have gotten two Chaos Bolts for free from the multistrikes. That would equal up to 100 T18 2pc empowered Chaos Bolts. No one is getting that many off in a fight.

[Drkdragon 9]

Also, FnB Chaos Bolts can do the triple multistrike as well, meaning the damage you do with it is exponentially higher with more targets.

I am pretty sure FnB will not use the T17 4pc buff.

[Liarparadox 5]

T17 4pc doesn't work with FnB. I've tried it many times. Sadly it doesn't work; but it'd be sickly OP.

[HeadBeeGuy 11]

You're thinking about it in the wrong way, Curinir. 1 in 9 CBs gets the multistrike buff, making it do almost 2x damage. Every CB with t18 2pc gets 2% extra damage AND reduces cast time by 0.5 seconds. This means, not even factoring in the damage bonus, you make up that multistrike CB every 5 CB casts by saving the time it would take to cast another one. Basically, you can cast 6 CB with t18 2pc in the time it takes to cast 5 without, as opposed to a free CB every 9 or so casts with t17 4pc. That's how I'm seeing it, anyway.

Edited July 9, 2015 by HeadBeeGuy

[Curinir 4]

Drkdragon and Liarparadox, it actually does work with FnB. I had to double check via Warcraft logs, but here is the proof. This is FnB Chaos Bolts with a Chaotic Infusion Overlay, and this is Normal Chaos Bolts with the same overlay. Both are from the same pull. If you look at 7:00, you can see that I gained the 4pc buff for 6 seconds and casted a FnB Chaos Bolt and lost the Infusion buff. At 7:00 on the regular Chaos Bolt graph, you can see that no normal Chaos Bolts were cast in that timeframe, meaning that Chaotic Infusion still works in FnB.

 

HeadBeeGuy, that is a great point, but I feel that with the ability to use FnB and Havoc with Chaotic Infusion procs, there is no point in using only the 2pc. Maybe if you have Mythic tier the stats will over weigh it, but sadly I am still a couple weeks away from Mythic. At that point, I had better have my 4pc anyway!

[Liarparadox 5]

No, what it means is that the buff got consumed on a FnB cast. It doesn't mean that it multi-striked every target with FnB. I've payed close attention to this and it always consumes the buff but never multi-strikes all the targets on FnB. 

 

Edit (oddly worded last time): At most it's applying to two targets, even if there doesn't seem to be any animation that it's doing so.

 

For further info, see: http://darkintentions.net/forums/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=34

 

Edited July 10, 2015 by Liarparadox

[Zagam 1,982]

FnB Chaos Bolts only apply to two, the same limit as Havoc.  So the T17 4p bonus diminishes with AoE effectiveness while the T18 2p bonus only increases as more targets are added.

[Curinir 4]

That is definitely something I have never noticed. I swear I've watched the yellow numbers multistrike on all of the adds, so I will definitely have to check it out later. How is it determined which mobs get the multistrike? Current target and closest in proximity? Or just complete randomeness?