The Help My DPS Thread

[spikeysquad 50]

Hey Thistlebloom,

Somehow I totally missed your post until now so I am sorry. Do you still visit here? Would you still like a log comparison?

[Glenpai 0]

So I have been maining affliction up until now and am trying to make the switch the demo, I like the play style and it seems more viable once i get it down. 

My parses as affliction have been upwards of 90% so I have been a little surprised that I can only manage to get my demo dps to low 300k. Im thinking it has to do with legendarys but if I am failing my rotation let me know. 

I know my doom uptime needs a little work but I'm not sure why my wildimp damage is so low, other logs have it almost always doing top dps per source.

Mythic Nythendra, I died this fight

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QzAyxdRW3pwLcX4F#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=3

Heroic Nythendra, gear is slightly outdated 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/nhkTDWpHM1Yqbjag#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=1

Thanks for any help you can offer, I want my dps to be 400k + and i hoping its not just wait for a demo legendary

[Lockybalboa 618]

First step IMO would be to radically reevaluate your goals. 400k on Nyth is a top 200 parse, at that level you're looking at warlocks that are 26-31 traits deep with two demo legendaries and in guilds that are equally geared thus having short kill times. Your guild killed it in seven minutes, #1 Demo killed it in just under 4 minutes, most of the parses are doing it around 4:30 and all of them are sub 5.

Big dreams are fine, but you're better off setting obtainable goals first.

Looking at Mythic Nyth kill for when you were alive:

1. Doom uptime for when you were alive was 90%, keep in mind that Doom = direct damage but it also = Imps. Every second of missing uptime is actually a solid DPS loss.
2. Missed two TKC.
3. Deadstalkers was low, had time for 22 casts and you casted 17.
4. Soul Shard management was a problem, but not totally horrid. Wasted 10 shards. That number needs to be like...2 tops. 0 is best obv.

Nothing else jumps out at me right now, but its 2am so I might be a little fuzzy. Should have a good baseline to work with though now. Good luck.

[Thalann 0]

Hey guys,

I feel like im performing okay but I'd like to do better. Could anyone take a look at my logs and give me some pointers and tips. I want to put my play into the next level.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=19

This was done on our EN run the other night. 

Thanks,

 

EDIT: I should mention that I believe my opener is  a bit messed up and im trying to improve it.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Talcourt

[spikeysquad 50]

Hey Talcourt,

Sorry for the slow reply; busy weekend. 

Nythendra:

Firstly, are you aware of the strength of relics? As a couple of yours are weaker but we don't always have much choice over these. Your haste is really really low for your item level. 

It's very odd to see Dogs at the top of damage done (most logs they are about 4th) but yes you do have a relic in them. Means your imps/DBs are lacking a bit though. Going to look deeper into why though I put some of this down to the haste issue.

Missing food buff. No potion use.

Yeah your opener is a little odd.

Doom 95%.

16 wasted soul shards when most logs have about 2. That's a huge loss: 4 HoGs, 16 Imps.

Firstly on 4 shards HoG unless you are perhaps setting up for TKC (and then be aware of your Doom tick so not to waste). Sometimes you will have to move on Nythendra but try to limit it (I see you used your circle did you put down your gate?). 

Your main issue actually seems to be staying on 5 shards too long. Do you use Weak Auras? Might be worth having something scream to you every time you get 4-5 or just learn to keep looking at your SSs more.

Couple of gaps in casting when you should use Demonwrath or Life Tap. The 3 taps together was a waste (you got to 100% MP) and getting to 0 MP is not good either rotationally (not sure that's a word).

Just generally try to squeeze out more DBs for more HoGs, Imps and higher DB damage.

Otherwise pretty decent. 

Elerenthe:

DE 68%

Doom 69%

Guess something went really wrong on this fight so going to leave it there on this one.

Cenarius:

3 missed Dreads

1 missed TKC (you were perfect on these on Nyth so seems like the more complicated stuff throws your rotation off still so that's an experience thing)

89% DE

89% Doom overall. 

Load of casting gaps but seems you found Demonwrath. You do seem to move a lot though. For Demo minimising movement is so important though yeah mechanics have different ideas. 

You use Doomguard with your potion which is good but you don't TKC with him out and if you know it's about a 4 min fight and you will only have 2 then technically hes better with the 20 % extra execute damage. However, there is an argument made for doing it on cooldown because 3/4 of your raid could die and hence you now have a 7 minute fight and could have fit in another summon. Either way it's a minor point as he really doesn't hit hard. 

I have only ever played Demo on ST fights so I don't have the knowledge/experience to comment more on add debuff uptimes etc. Seems like you tunnelled the boss a lot. Do the adds live longer than 15 seconds? You don't ever cast Doom. Do you only HoG (HoD) on 4 shards or before?

Again all the points I listed above transfer into all fights.

With decent legendaries, better stat optimisation, more practice and fixing some issues I can see you doing a lot better soon.

Good luck

Disclaimer: Always may be errors.

Edited November 14, 2016 by spikeysquad

[Thalann 0]

7 hours ago, spikeysquad said:

Hey Talcourt,

Sorry for the slow reply; busy weekend. 

Nythendra:

Firstly, are you aware of the strength of relics? As a couple of yours are weaker but we don't always have much choice over these. Your haste is really really low for your item level. 

It's very odd to see Dogs at the top of damage done (most logs they are about 4th) but yes you do have a relic in them. Means your imps/DBs are lacking a bit though. Going to look deeper into why though I put some of this down to the haste issue.

Missing food buff. No potion use.

Yeah your opener is a little odd.

Doom 95%.

16 wasted soul shards when most logs have about 2. That's a huge loss: 4 HoGs, 16 Imps.

Firstly on 4 shards HoG unless you are perhaps setting up for TKC (and then be aware of your Doom tick so not to waste). Sometimes you will have to move on Nythendra but try to limit it (I see you used your circle did you put down your gate?). 

Your main issue actually seems to be staying on 5 shards too long. Do you use Weak Auras? Might be worth having something scream to you every time you get 4-5 or just learn to keep looking at your SSs more.

Couple of gaps in casting when you should use Demonwrath or Life Tap. The 3 taps together was a waste (you got to 100% MP) and getting to 0 MP is not good either rotationally (not sure that's a word).

Just generally try to squeeze out more DBs for more HoGs, Imps and higher DB damage.

Otherwise pretty decent. 

Elerenthe:

DE 68%

Doom 69%

Guess something went really wrong on this fight so going to leave it there on this one.

Cenarius:

3 missed Dreads

1 missed TKC (you were perfect on these on Nyth so seems like the more complicated stuff throws your rotation off still so that's an experience thing)

89% DE

89% Doom overall. 

Load of casting gaps but seems you found Demonwrath. You do seem to move a lot though. For Demo minimising movement is so important though yeah mechanics have different ideas. 

You use Doomguard with your potion which is good but you don't TKC with him out and if you know it's about a 4 min fight and you will only have 2 then technically hes better with the 20 % extra execute damage. However, there is an argument made for doing it on cooldown because 3/4 of your raid could die and hence you now have a 7 minute fight and could have fit in another summon. Either way it's a minor point as he really doesn't hit hard. 

I have only ever played Demo on ST fights so I don't have the knowledge/experience to comment more on add debuff uptimes etc. Seems like you tunnelled the boss a lot. Do the adds live longer than 15 seconds? You don't ever cast Doom. Do you only HoG (HoD) on 4 shards or before?

Again all the points I listed above transfer into all fights.

With decent legendaries, better stat optimisation, more practice and fixing some issues I can see you doing a lot better soon.

Good luck

Disclaimer: Always may be errors.

Thanks for the reply.

Relics are amazing but are quite difficult to obtain currently. 

I thought that 30% haste was fine? Sometimes you gotta just hope that the RNG drops you a piece of haste gear. I'm using pawn with the statweights found in the Discord thats telling me what I should take.

I also need to work on gate and summoning positioning. That'll come with time. :P

I use WA with Nots setup and I just downloaded doomshards. Maybe ill use a tellmewhen for them.

Other stuff ill take into account and improve on.

I tunnel the boss a lot because adds dont usually last longer then 15 seconds and doom doesnt tick on death (so ive noticed) and target switching tends to move my pet away and takes from his damage as well. I try to only HoG on 4.

Thanks for the help. Im wondering now what I have done wrong with my stats (hopefully its just bad rng with drops) Hopefully, i'll come back in a couple weeks with an even better log for you to look over.

 

Cheers

 

[spikeysquad 50]

15 hours ago, Talcourt said:

Thanks for the reply.

Relics are amazing but are quite difficult to obtain currently. 

I thought that 30% haste was fine? Sometimes you gotta just hope that the RNG drops you a piece of haste gear. I'm using pawn with the statweights found in the Discord thats telling me what I should take.

I also need to work on gate and summoning positioning. That'll come with time. :P

I use WA with Nots setup and I just downloaded doomshards. Maybe ill use a tellmewhen for them.

Other stuff ill take into account and improve on.

I tunnel the boss a lot because adds dont usually last longer then 15 seconds and doom doesnt tick on death (so ive noticed) and target switching tends to move my pet away and takes from his damage as well. I try to only HoG on 4.

Thanks for the help. Im wondering now what I have done wrong with my stats (hopefully its just bad rng with drops) Hopefully, i'll come back in a couple weeks with an even better log for you to look over.

 

Cheers

 

Thanks for the reply Talcourt,

30% haste at 867 is very low in my opinion. However, yes we have to make do with what we are given. If you have been following the Discord stat weights then yes you probably had a bunch of say 20+ item upgrades but on the whole you want high haste on every single piece. 

Yeah Doomshards is really good as it also shows you when you will get your next Doom ticks so you can plan ahead. Why would you use both WAs and Tell Me When? I personally cannot see a reason though it has been years since I have used the latter and I may be out of the loop. Sometimes complicated WAs can be tricky to make but there are resources around to help with custom code if this is the reason.

Yeah fair enough on the switching thing. Demo is better tunnelling but can be nice to get extra Doom ticks if they live long enough. 

Good luck!

 

[Thistlebloom 0]

On 11/11/2016 at 5:05 AM, spikeysquad said:

Hey Thistlebloom,

Somehow I totally missed your post until now so I am sorry. Do you still visit here? Would you still like a log comparison?

Yes please... 

[spikeysquad 50]

11 minutes ago, Thistlebloom said:

Yes please... 

Sure I will do it within the next 24 hours if no one beats me first.

[spikeysquad 50]

On 04/11/2016 at 6:44 PM, Thistlebloom said:

I'm brand new to warlock as I've played a boomkin since launch. I have been using this site and other resources to tweak my build/rotation and was improving but just can't get up to the level i need to be. I would love any help i can get. I have attached my last raid log below... the only thing is I forgot my flask for the first 2 fights, but otherwise it should be pretty representative of my playstyle and whatnot. 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gtRTHFGCzm2xMd13/#boss=-2&source=12

 

I actually have some time free now so here we go. First looking at your Nythendra log. Have you ever played Destro? Demo is a good spec for raiding/dungeons but most people find Destro much easier.

Gear: You have about 28% haste? Not too bad at your item level but keep getting high haste on all.

Relics: Only one really good relic trait at the moment but not always something we have much control over.

Talents: DC is slightly better in sims over SI (I'm talking like 1-2% when I ran it which is nothing). However, SI is better for movement so a fine choice.

GoSyn is better than GoServ though. 

Soul Harvest is a weak choice unless you really need the burst. Hand of Doom will also increase your Doom uptime considerably (which is really really really low in some of your fights).

In your EN clear you only used Dark Pact once. Demon Skin would be a better choice unless there's something you want to soak. 

Doom uptime: 59% when it should be the other way around (as in 95 at the very least). This also says your UI is not fit for purpose. Changing your talent should help a lot though you still want to track it in case you do not manage to cast Imps enough. You lost a lot of Imps due to missing Doom ticks

DE: 92%. Sometimes you did but ideally when you can combine summons more (for example Doomguard and Dreadstalkers). At least one DE that you didn't need.

2+ missed Dreadstalkers.

1 missed TKC

5 wasted SSs. You stay capped a little too long sometimes.

For TKC make sure you have Dogs and Imps up before the cast ends. Then like you have done add in Doomy

Lots of long casting gaps. No Demonwrath, Gateway or Circle use. Lifetap more when you have to move (unless you're above 70% MP). These gaps are pretty much your biggest loss. More movement=Less DBs=Less Imps=Lower DB damage (as it's based on amount of pets out). 

Work on all of the above and you should see an significant improvement than you can transfer to all fights. Your Imp Firebolts should be your biggest damage source so keep earning those SS and spending them.

Good luck

Disclamier: Always may be errors

[Wilmute 1]

HI all, I think this is the right place for this but if not, let me know.

 

I am main specing Destruction and I do pretty well in 5 man content but I am failing miserably in raid environments. I've been working hard on calming my movements as I feel like this is my biggest problem but even when I feel like I stay relatively still (as much as mechanics allow) I still do pretty poor DPS. Below are the parses for an LFR run I just did this evening and while I did ok, I feel like I can do MUCH better. I'd love any feed back you guys could provide.

LFR Nythendra

LFR Il'gynoth

Armory

 

If you need more info, please let me know and thanks in advance for any feedback!

[spikeysquad 50]

On 22/11/2016 at 8:09 AM, Wilmute said:

HI all, I think this is the right place for this but if not, let me know.

 

I am main specing Destruction and I do pretty well in 5 man content but I am failing miserably in raid environments. I've been working hard on calming my movements as I feel like this is my biggest problem but even when I feel like I stay relatively still (as much as mechanics allow) I still do pretty poor DPS. Below are the parses for an LFR run I just did this evening and while I did ok, I feel like I can do MUCH better. I'd love any feed back you guys could provide.

LFR Nythendra

LFR Il'gynoth

Armory

 

If you need more info, please let me know and thanks in advance for any feedback!

Hi Wilmute,

Let's have a look,

Gear: Seems a nice balance actually.

Talents: You know you're in a heavy cleave spec (even an AoE one with F&B) for Nythendra? I know you have the cape so that explains the WH and it's understandable you do not want to change every fight though especially in LFR.

Ok, easy to see your first major issue. You're using Roaring Blaze (RB). While this is better DPS in a sim and when performed correctly it is extremely punishing if not and will be a DPS loss over Backdraft (and even when not using that to its full potential). RB also makes target switching harder (without losing DPS) so it's not ideal always in progress either and Backdraft does give you a bit more mobility on fights like Ursoc.

To be honest your use of both Immolate and Conflag for RB are really poor. If you want to continue with it that's fine but you need to study and practice a lot more with it. I will not go into the technicalities (I don't play with it anyhow) as the guide over on MMO-Champion, the one here and the pin in the Destro channel in the Warlock Discord all have the information you need. 

4 Wasted SSs. Twice you stayed capped a little too long (in LFR you shouldn't have to move much if at all).

Immolate uptime: 98% but this is actually a bad thing with RB as you never let the last tick happen each time.

Havoc: I think I read with the cape it should be about a 2% upgrade to use WH and keep it up on ST. However, your Havoc uptime is 88%. Is it worth the extra hassle of watching this? However, it will make you more aware of Havoc on multitarget fights so that's good practice. 

A lot of globals lost in casting gaps. Not only when you are moving though (which you seem to do too often and too far for LFR) but sometimes you just seem to pause in the replay. No gate or circle use (they can be pretty good for breath dodging on higher difficulties). Anyhow as you said movement is something that you need to work on.

Eradication: You didn't use but sometimes your CBs are too clumped together and your first CB was at 18 seconds. That would be a huge loss with Eradication. 

No consumable use (it's LFR of course).

Do you ever sim? With using GoServ and Eradication at 871 without consumables I think you should be able to consistently reach over 300k on a 3 patchwerk minute fight with Doomguard and a bit higher with Infernal. It would be better if you simmed yourself for a more accurate answer as I think that will actually be somewhat higher. So if you are serious about improving that is something to aim towards when you are hitting the dummies. Technically GoSup is probably better ST damage now however on shorter fights the Infernal/Doomguard summon has a bigger impact.

On Il'gynoth:

Immolate uptime: 32%

Havoc: 43%

Huge gaps in casting (but maybe you didn't have mobs up? I didn't check)

Missed Doomguard summon

Only 7 Immolates though I see you have F&B. In raids I wouldn't use that personally. Destro strength is cleaving and in raids, at least with equal people, we are usually not likely to get much of the AoE pie with classes that have much better burst.

Only 10 CBs (though sure you had your RoF spam). This is mostly due to your lack of building of shards (thorugh Conflag and Immolate)

To win with Destro Immolate everything, focus on Eradication uptime, Havoc and with enough DoTs up you get to RoF (only use if something like 5+ mobs will last the full rain) or CB spam with Havoc. Now days (in heroic raids anyhow) only place I really get to use RoF is on the Eyeball boss (with every one predotted for shards), everything dies too quick or my focus is better used elsewhere (for example in ToV on Heyla for progress I kill the tentacles and ignore the little adds).

Lots of missed Rifts and Conflags.

Good luck

Disclaimer: Always may be errors.

[Wilmute 1]

3 hours ago, spikeysquad said:

Hi Wilmute,

Let's have a look,

Gear: Seems a nice balance actually.

Talents: You know you're in a heavy cleave spec (even an AoE one with F&B) for Nythendra? I know you have the cape so that explains the WH and it's understandable you do not want to change every fight though especially in LFR.

Ok, easy to see your first major issue. You're using Roaring Blaze (RB). While this is better DPS in a sim and when performed correctly it is extremely punishing if not and will be a DPS loss over Backdraft (and even when not using that to its full potential). RB also makes target switching harder (without losing DPS) so it's not ideal always in progress either and Backdraft does give you a bit more mobility on fights like Ursoc.

To be honest your use of both Immolate and Conflag for RB are really poor. If you want to continue with it that's fine but you need to study and practice a lot more with it. I will not go into the technicalities (I don't play with it anyhow) as the guide over on MMO-Champion, the one here and the pin in the Destro channel in the Warlock Discord all have the information you need. 

4 Wasted SSs. Twice you stayed capped a little too long (in LFR you shouldn't have to move much if at all).

Immolate uptime: 98% but this is actually a bad thing with RB as you never let the last tick happen each time.

Havoc: I think I read with the cape it should be about a 2% upgrade to use WH and keep it up on ST. However, your Havoc uptime is 88%. Is it worth the extra hassle of watching this? However, it will make you more aware of Havoc on multitarget fights so that's good practice. 

A lot of globals lost in casting gaps. Not only when you are moving though (which you seem to do too often and too far for LFR) but sometimes you just seem to pause in the replay. No gate or circle use (they can be pretty good for breath dodging on higher difficulties). Anyhow as you said movement is something that you need to work on.

Eradication: You didn't use but sometimes your CBs are too clumped together and your first CB was at 18 seconds. That would be a huge loss with Eradication. 

No consumable use (it's LFR of course).

Do you ever sim? With using GoServ and Eradication at 871 without consumables I think you should be able to consistently reach over 300k on a 3 patchwerk minute fight with Doomguard and a bit higher with Infernal. It would be better if you simmed yourself for a more accurate answer as I think that will actually be somewhat higher. So if you are serious about improving that is something to aim towards when you are hitting the dummies. Technically GoSup is probably better ST damage now however on shorter fights the Infernal/Doomguard summon has a bigger impact.

On Il'gynoth:

Immolate uptime: 32%

Havoc: 43%

Huge gaps in casting (but maybe you didn't have mobs up? I didn't check)

Missed Doomguard summon

Only 7 Immolates though I see you have F&B. In raids I wouldn't use that personally. Destro strength is cleaving and in raids, at least with equal people, we are usually not likely to get much of the AoE pie with classes that have much better burst.

Only 10 CBs (though sure you had your RoF spam). This is mostly due to your lack of building of shards (thorugh Conflag and Immolate)

To win with Destro Immolate everything, focus on Eradication uptime, Havoc and with enough DoTs up you get to RoF (only use if something like 5+ mobs will last the full rain) or CB spam with Havoc. Now days (in heroic raids anyhow) only place I really get to use RoF is on the Eyeball boss (with every one predotted for shards), everything dies too quick or my focus is better used elsewhere (for example in ToV on Heyla for progress I kill the tentacles and ignore the little adds).

Lots of missed Rifts and Conflags.

Good luck

Disclaimer: Always may be errors.

HI Spikeysquad

 

Thank you so much for the reply! I guess I felt like I should use RB as a way to help with damage until I can figure out how to not move so much. As far as eradication goes, I will definitely start using that trait, if I understand correctly, I want to make sure it stays up as much as possible so that means no dumping all CB's I have shards for, right? My original reason for going F&B was to at least try to make a difference on packs of trash and adds like in Elerethe Renferal. It seems like I need to start carrying a ton of Tomes of the tranquil mind around if I want to do that though.

I just started looking at the Sim stuff, still trying to make heads or tails of it right now. I have played with it a little and it, like you said, seemed to think I should be doing around 300k dps. 

I wish I could understand why I feel the need to move so much, I want to say its that I'm so concerned about dying to mechanics of fights but it seems like that is not always the case after watching replays of fights. Il'gynoth is especially frustrating to me as I know that unless I'm being focused on I should just plant myself somewhere and never move but I just have not been able to convince myself to do that yet, I wish I could root myself, lol.

Is there a good way to help with target switching? Tab targeting feels so bad but not really sure what else to do, is there a good addon for this?

Thank you again for the feedback, it is much appreciated!

[spikeysquad 50]

17 hours ago, Wilmute said:

HI Spikeysquad

 

Thank you so much for the reply! I guess I felt like I should use RB as a way to help with damage until I can figure out how to not move so much. As far as eradication goes, I will definitely start using that trait, if I understand correctly, I want to make sure it stays up as much as possible so that means no dumping all CB's I have shards for, right? My original reason for going F&B was to at least try to make a difference on packs of trash and adds like in Elerethe Renferal. It seems like I need to start carrying a ton of Tomes of the tranquil mind around if I want to do that though.

I just started looking at the Sim stuff, still trying to make heads or tails of it right now. I have played with it a little and it, like you said, seemed to think I should be doing around 300k dps. 

I wish I could understand why I feel the need to move so much, I want to say its that I'm so concerned about dying to mechanics of fights but it seems like that is not always the case after watching replays of fights. Il'gynoth is especially frustrating to me as I know that unless I'm being focused on I should just plant myself somewhere and never move but I just have not been able to convince myself to do that yet, I wish I could root myself, lol.

Is there a good way to help with target switching? Tab targeting feels so bad but not really sure what else to do, is there a good addon for this?

Thank you again for the feedback, it is much appreciated!

Hi Wilmute,

You''re welcome and thanks for your reply.

How handy with the sim stuff are you now? There's probably some guides around to help you learn if you decide to carry on with it.

The whole RB/BD thing is your choice. Some people swear by RB and shout from the rooftops about how much better it is. Then you can do sims that show it 5k ahead (though this depends a lot on chosen settings). Or go to the logs page and see for both mythic Dragons and Il'gynoth only 5 of the top 100 parses have used it.

Ultimately don't take everything you read at face value and research stuff a bit (including what I say as I may be biased or ill informed). Quite a few people find RB unpleasant to play with (plus it takes more focus) and so for that and the increased mobility of BD have gone with the latter. Your choice.

I see you have 4 herioc clears so do you raid with your guild? As in a set group most times. If you have a strange set up maybe F&B is better for you or hey you get great numbers in LFR/farm raids (it's always fun to "pad"). Like most groups seem to be at the moment my guild is pretty melee heavy and we also have 4 hunters. On Elerethe/Il'gynoth it's not worth me bothering much with the little adds as they are not killing us (and by the time I get really started they are normally dead anyhow!) It is much better for my guild to have my 12% extra damage on my main target and the one with Havoc.

Are you progressing in mythic EN now or just normal ToV? Again it's a decision to make. The questions being are the little adds going to wipe us? If not what can I do better? Of course not every does this and goes for max DPS which usually does not help progress. Perhaps if you have an ill-informed (read bad) raid leader or even other players they might ask why are you 50k behind the other lock when you are actually way ahead on priority targets. If that is the case you have to do what you have to do (or leave).

Like I said before on Heyla (normal) my lock guildy and I knew we weren't needed on the little adds so we went cleaving the tentacles making the second phase shorter and making our kill come quicker (or I like to think so anyhow!) So ultimately again your choice but personally I have never seen a use for F&B over Eradication in a raid. It does depend on what dungeon/what level and affixes/group set up but F&B can be very strong in mythics (and very easy to play with!)

So Eradication. You want to aim for the highest uptime so yes chain casting CBs unless you are capped and capped and capped is not a good idea but wasting shards is worse. Like I said before you want a CB pretty early in your opener with Erad. You also want to have Eradication on your offtarget as well so keep your Havoc up. If you do decide to go the BD way then learn how that works as well, You want to get 3 casts in the buff which is doable as long as you don't go CB-CB-cast first. So CB-Inc-CB, Inc-Inc-CB, Inc-CB-CB (if you are on 4/shard capped) etc should work for example (if you pound your keys and don't have lag).

I understand what you mean about the movement stuff. I move too often and too far as well though for Destro (at least with BD) it is not as half as punishing as Demo. For me I am trying to break it down fight by fight, ability by ability. So Nythendra for example with Rot it lasts about 5 seconds so there is no need to cancel a cast. I finish whatever I am doing move to the edge (I tend to be near here anyhow to reduce movement needed). Do rotation and only move again once the stuff is dropped and I have finished my cast! Don't try this on mythic as Infested stacks must be avoided but if your healers are doing fine on heroic and no one will nerd rage then it's really ok to take an extra infested stack. Locks are really tanky and we can do this (usually) as most will be absorbed anyhow.

For breath I used to be really concerned about being hit. I would go nearer the middle when it was due so I could avoid it more easily and then again run out again to sprread more. Now I stay still, keep bashing the keyboard and go through my gate or portal if I have to move, Ideally start at the side of everyone else (near the sleep area if you have a dedicated place) as well then there is less chance of it coming your way as well. 

Anyhow my point is lots of abilities give you more and enough time to finish your cast and then move, Or you can stand pretty close to a swirly and not get hit (that's something that is learned too). If you have to move plan in advance what you are going to do. So for Destro i always keep a stack of Conflag (with BD) and a Rift by for movement. On fights with planned movement like Ursoc every time I use an instant then I start moving to where I need to be next. Little tricks like this should help.

Initial positioning is really important too though. Think about where in each fight you need to go and be pretty central to there. Also try to avoid other players as much as possible. They are less likely to make you move then. Most decent raid leaders will usually prefer a consistent player who doesn't die much due to failing with (slightly) lower DPS than one who dies frequently as they are tunnelling so it's about finding a nice balance.

For multidotting/Havoc I either use the bossframes in ElvUI (but any should work) usually just mousing over rather than selecting or just mouseover mobs/their nameplates. This requires special macros though. I also make use of the focus target (good for fights like the dragons) and have a modifier in the macro to cast on that instead. Everyone needs to find what works for them. Occasionally yeah tab targeting too if I can perhaps not narrow down the mob I want. I'm still trying to find the best way myself as I was on quite a long break and then found an addon that made all of this so easy but Blizzard seemed to decide it was too OP and stopped it from working /sigh.

So much rambling but hopefully something is useful. Practice stuff and then log again in say 2 weeks and I will do another comparison. Is your UI good? Does it show you everything you need to know somewhere near your character's feet?

Good luck,

[Devkarin 5]

Hello everyone,

yesterday i was facing EN Mythic for the first time...Nythendra worked so far. Now i would ask for a bit input about my performance to get my DPS boosted.

I know my Uptimes/Casts has not been perfect...casted Agonie to often and actually not using Contangion because it mostly feels like i´m running out of Shards to keep up UA all the time. So i wait to get 3-5 SS an spend them all in a row, depending on proccs, CDs, Pots and so on.

Nythendra Mythic

The drop of DPS caused of ab bit...chaos during the fight while our tank died an it where a bit confusing...but i guess this was not the biggest "problem" i had :D

Thanks.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Devkarin

[Lockybalboa 618]

Siphon Life uptime was horrid, you cast Corruption 3 times (two wasted since you took perma Corruption), don't overlap UA unless you're capped on shards, you let Agony fall off twice - this is a major DPS loss mostly due to Agony having to restack, forgot to second pot.

 

nothing else really jumps out at me. Good luck.

[Wilmute 1]

On 11/24/2016 at 5:44 AM, spikeysquad said:

Hi Wilmute,

You''re welcome and thanks for your reply.

How handy with the sim stuff are you now? There's probably some guides around to help you learn if you decide to carry on with it.

The whole RB/BD thing is your choice. Some people swear by RB and shout from the rooftops about how much better it is. Then you can do sims that show it 5k ahead (though this depends a lot on chosen settings). Or go to the logs page and see for both mythic Dragons and Il'gynoth only 5 of the top 100 parses have used it.

Ultimately don't take everything you read at face value and research stuff a bit (including what I say as I may be biased or ill informed). Quite a few people find RB unpleasant to play with (plus it takes more focus) and so for that and the increased mobility of BD have gone with the latter. Your choice.

I see you have 4 herioc clears so do you raid with your guild? As in a set group most times. If you have a strange set up maybe F&B is better for you or hey you get great numbers in LFR/farm raids (it's always fun to "pad"). Like most groups seem to be at the moment my guild is pretty melee heavy and we also have 4 hunters. On Elerethe/Il'gynoth it's not worth me bothering much with the little adds as they are not killing us (and by the time I get really started they are normally dead anyhow!) It is much better for my guild to have my 12% extra damage on my main target and the one with Havoc.

Are you progressing in mythic EN now or just normal ToV? Again it's a decision to make. The questions being are the little adds going to wipe us? If not what can I do better? Of course not every does this and goes for max DPS which usually does not help progress. Perhaps if you have an ill-informed (read bad) raid leader or even other players they might ask why are you 50k behind the other lock when you are actually way ahead on priority targets. If that is the case you have to do what you have to do (or leave).

Like I said before on Heyla (normal) my lock guildy and I knew we weren't needed on the little adds so we went cleaving the tentacles making the second phase shorter and making our kill come quicker (or I like to think so anyhow!) So ultimately again your choice but personally I have never seen a use for F&B over Eradication in a raid. It does depend on what dungeon/what level and affixes/group set up but F&B can be very strong in mythics (and very easy to play with!)

So Eradication. You want to aim for the highest uptime so yes chain casting CBs unless you are capped and capped and capped is not a good idea but wasting shards is worse. Like I said before you want a CB pretty early in your opener with Erad. You also want to have Eradication on your offtarget as well so keep your Havoc up. If you do decide to go the BD way then learn how that works as well, You want to get 3 casts in the buff which is doable as long as you don't go CB-CB-cast first. So CB-Inc-CB, Inc-Inc-CB, Inc-CB-CB (if you are on 4/shard capped) etc should work for example (if you pound your keys and don't have lag).

I understand what you mean about the movement stuff. I move too often and too far as well though for Destro (at least with BD) it is not as half as punishing as Demo. For me I am trying to break it down fight by fight, ability by ability. So Nythendra for example with Rot it lasts about 5 seconds so there is no need to cancel a cast. I finish whatever I am doing move to the edge (I tend to be near here anyhow to reduce movement needed). Do rotation and only move again once the stuff is dropped and I have finished my cast! Don't try this on mythic as Infested stacks must be avoided but if your healers are doing fine on heroic and no one will nerd rage then it's really ok to take an extra infested stack. Locks are really tanky and we can do this (usually) as most will be absorbed anyhow.

For breath I used to be really concerned about being hit. I would go nearer the middle when it was due so I could avoid it more easily and then again run out again to sprread more. Now I stay still, keep bashing the keyboard and go through my gate or portal if I have to move, Ideally start at the side of everyone else (near the sleep area if you have a dedicated place) as well then there is less chance of it coming your way as well. 

Anyhow my point is lots of abilities give you more and enough time to finish your cast and then move, Or you can stand pretty close to a swirly and not get hit (that's something that is learned too). If you have to move plan in advance what you are going to do. So for Destro i always keep a stack of Conflag (with BD) and a Rift by for movement. On fights with planned movement like Ursoc every time I use an instant then I start moving to where I need to be next. Little tricks like this should help.

Initial positioning is really important too though. Think about where in each fight you need to go and be pretty central to there. Also try to avoid other players as much as possible. They are less likely to make you move then. Most decent raid leaders will usually prefer a consistent player who doesn't die much due to failing with (slightly) lower DPS than one who dies frequently as they are tunnelling so it's about finding a nice balance.

For multidotting/Havoc I either use the bossframes in ElvUI (but any should work) usually just mousing over rather than selecting or just mouseover mobs/their nameplates. This requires special macros though. I also make use of the focus target (good for fights like the dragons) and have a modifier in the macro to cast on that instead. Everyone needs to find what works for them. Occasionally yeah tab targeting too if I can perhaps not narrow down the mob I want. I'm still trying to find the best way myself as I was on quite a long break and then found an addon that made all of this so easy but Blizzard seemed to decide it was too OP and stopped it from working /sigh.

So much rambling but hopefully something is useful. Practice stuff and then log again in say 2 weeks and I will do another comparison. Is your UI good? Does it show you everything you need to know somewhere near your character's feet?

Good luck,

Hi spikeysquad!

Thank you so much again for the detailed responses, they are truly helpful! I took your advice on the talents and it made a wold of difference this weekend. I did significantly better in DPS, though still not where I need to be but WAY better. I am going to stick with Eradication and Backdraft until I feel comfortable then I may take on Roaring Blaze again. I've been toying with my opener in LFR, sticking a CB for the eradication buff right before I use Dimensional Rift charges and GoServ and Doom/Fel Guard. Feels like a slight bump but I may be wrong there. 

I do raid with my guild, and I also feel useless on the little blob spawns on Il'gynoth so I do what I can and keep looking for corruptors while trying to dot what I can. I usually have lower DPS in that fight because of it but its still better than it was so ill take it! I'm trying to change my mindset about padding, it looks nice on paper but where damage is really needed is on the boss so I will have to be less effective on trash to be more effective in the fights that matter. I'm really the only lock in our guild who shows up for raids so I dont get a lot of feedback other than "what can we do to help get your DPS up" which is awesome but I think I answered that this past weekend. We currently have heroic EN on farm and looking to start Mythic progression and we are working nomral ToV as well. I did realize that I was wasting too much time and energy on the little add and also started just going for the tentacles and that helped me a great deal. 

This past weekend I resolved to only move if it was life or death and I really put all of my skills to use to make that happen. I used Demonic Gateway and Demonic Circle to great effect and it was awesome. Essentially before we pulled the Nyth, I dropped a Demonic Circle and ran almost completely behind her, when someone got near me or Rot expired, I'd just use Demonic Circle to move away from it and I was good.

I know what you mean about targeting. I also use a mouseover macro for havoc and I didn't learn about the aforementioned AddOn until after they'd already made the change, I understand their position on it but they need to give us a better way to target mobs if they are going to take it away. 

My UI is DecUI which is a variant of ElvUI. I really like it's minimialistic feel and it comes with all the bells and whistles you'd need. I also use WeakAuras and I am using the Destruction Warlock Aura's from Not from wago.io. Again, I truly do appreciate the feedback, it's been tremendously helpful!

 

 

[spikeysquad 50]

On 28/11/2016 at 4:56 PM, Wilmute said:

Hi spikeysquad!

Thank you so much again for the detailed responses, they are truly helpful! I took your advice on the talents and it made a wold of difference this weekend. I did significantly better in DPS, though still not where I need to be but WAY better. I am going to stick with Eradication and Backdraft until I feel comfortable then I may take on Roaring Blaze again. I've been toying with my opener in LFR, sticking a CB for the eradication buff right before I use Dimensional Rift charges and GoServ and Doom/Fel Guard. Feels like a slight bump but I may be wrong there. 

I do raid with my guild, and I also feel useless on the little blob spawns on Il'gynoth so I do what I can and keep looking for corruptors while trying to dot what I can. I usually have lower DPS in that fight because of it but its still better than it was so ill take it! I'm trying to change my mindset about padding, it looks nice on paper but where damage is really needed is on the boss so I will have to be less effective on trash to be more effective in the fights that matter. I'm really the only lock in our guild who shows up for raids so I dont get a lot of feedback other than "what can we do to help get your DPS up" which is awesome but I think I answered that this past weekend. We currently have heroic EN on farm and looking to start Mythic progression and we are working nomral ToV as well. I did realize that I was wasting too much time and energy on the little add and also started just going for the tentacles and that helped me a great deal. 

This past weekend I resolved to only move if it was life or death and I really put all of my skills to use to make that happen. I used Demonic Gateway and Demonic Circle to great effect and it was awesome. Essentially before we pulled the Nyth, I dropped a Demonic Circle and ran almost completely behind her, when someone got near me or Rot expired, I'd just use Demonic Circle to move away from it and I was good.

I know what you mean about targeting. I also use a mouseover macro for havoc and I didn't learn about the aforementioned AddOn until after they'd already made the change, I understand their position on it but they need to give us a better way to target mobs if they are going to take it away. 

My UI is DecUI which is a variant of ElvUI. I really like it's minimialistic feel and it comes with all the bells and whistles you'd need. I also use WeakAuras and I am using the Destruction Warlock Aura's from Not from wago.io. Again, I truly do appreciate the feedback, it's been tremendously helpful!

 

 

Hey Wilmute,

Thanks for getting back to me. Sounds like things are improving for you so good job! 

It makes sense to stay with BD for now until you feel more comfortable and can take on RB again. BD is much simpler but try always to get 3 casts boosted. 

Just to be clear, in this context, there are two main types of fights (and everywhere in between). You have progress and you have farm (which tends to be a few kills in until it gets smooth though it varies boss by boss). For progress priority target damage is super important so you don't blow up and wipe. For farm then yeah make it pad central and go for max damage. Getting more from your class shows your knowledge of what it can do and how well you can perform in that situation.

Now for Destro there is also this area in between. In theory if we DoT up enough targets in order to have a almost constant stream of SSs for chain casting CBs then our ST should also increase. The last phase on Xavius (normal/heroic) is a very good example of this. If you Immolate enough tentacles, though not too many so you are capped all the time as that is a waste (and padding), you should actually be able to get a higher DPS on the boss. I have seen a slight increase in my boss damage but to be honest it is not that major so something I will keep an eye on and keep practising and suggest you play around with it too and see what happens.

On farm Eyeball (and any boss) unless you have been told to not DPS things then pretty much DoT everything. Not only is it damage but you get resources too that you can use where you want to. On the blobs for example if you have pre-dotted them all you should be able to get several RoFs onto them when it is time to kill them. If boss damage isn't an issue go GoSac and the passive cleave will also help you get some decent damage on them as well. A lot will depend on your group though. If you do have multiple DHs/hunters/warriors/insert any melee class here don't except to do super good on the blobs and that's ok. Destro's strength is cleaving. Go rock on those tentacles and have lots of CBs flying through the air. 

As Destro I really like Heyla (and Odyn on heroic as well as you get more cleaving). On our normal clear last week either my guildy lock or I was top on tentacles, Mariner, Slimes and 3rd on Grimelord (though I was 8th here actually). That's pretty cool and what kills a boss usually (though yes you need some decent ST as well from others to balance it out). I say usually as every now and again there is a weird raid group that somehow doesn't have enough AoE. We usually have 2 warriors, 1-2 DHs, 4 hunters, monk, are melee heavy and so on therefore there's not much use to AoE most of the time. So to be really clear I am not saying never use F&B as such (and farm do whatever you like for sure) but be aware of where you can excel and go for it. It's a shame that you don't have another guildy lock to chat to but yeah forums like these are really helpful then.

Good work on the movement thing. Think about your positioning before each fight. Where will mean the least amount of movement? Where can I use gateway/circle best?

Too much rambling again! Like I said practice for a bit to see how and where you progress (and where is still a significant issue) and then post some more logs if you want. Before then feel free to ask questions etc. Good luck!

[Twinkielock 15]

Quick question.    With Recurrent Ritual what's the best T1 talent?

 

[Lockybalboa 618]

It does nothing to change the status of the talents. Demonic Calling is still the best.

[Berdine 1]

So I am looking for a little help on a particular fight.  Heroic Odyn in Trial of Valor as a destro lock.  Seem to be parsing grey and wondering how to get that dps up a little.  Any help would be fantastic.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ftFLXcQDvTnhyqCP#type=damage-done&fight=9&source=1

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/arathor/Eleanor/simple

Thanks

 

[Lockybalboa 618]

I don't have time to look closely but the two major issues that I see:

1) You need to spend your next artifact trait into Lord of Flames. I don't know why you skipped it but you need to get it.

2) You're spending a very high amount of time capped on Soul Shards. You need to spend them, not save them.

[spikeysquad 50]

4 minutes ago, Berdine said:

So I am looking for a little help on a particular fight.  Heroic Odyn in Trial of Valor as a destro lock.  Seem to be parsing grey and wondering how to get that dps up a little.  Any help would be fantastic.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ftFLXcQDvTnhyqCP#type=damage-done&fight=9&source=1

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/arathor/Eleanor/simple

Thanks

 

Hey Berdine,

Not sure if you are in Destro gear but you have seriously low crit which probably doen't help. Oh and only 22 points and 2 weak relics will be holding you back as well.

Personally for progress I went with GoServ on this fight. Mobs are not stacked enough for GoSac in my opinion and the extra damage in phase 3 while you are moving more helps the boss go down. I think personally you will probably get more overall from GoServ as 10% Demonic Power damage is really low compared to a constant pet and the extra Imp.

First off some casting gaps (though nothing too major). Ideally minimise your movement and be in a good starting position.

Immolate uptime: overal 91%, your Dot falled off a lot on both Hymdall and Hyrja in the first phase. Do you know about pandemic?

Havoc: You mostly seem to keep it up though frequently cast it too early or put it on one add and decide to move it straight away. You lost quite a few GCDs through this.

Personally on Runebearers I will usually Immolate about 3 when they are moving to the runes and then have a steady stream of shards for coping CBs over. However, find the way that works best for you and your guild.

At one point you were probably capped on Conflags and you may have missed a Rift (it's hard to tell with the trait).

No Doomguard or Lord of the Flames use (the latter is probably better for phase 3 during progress).

No potion use.

51 Soul Shards wasted!!!!!!!!!! Also known as 25 CBs (which many you can Havoc so let's say 40 lost). This is a GIGANTIC loss of damage including missed Eradication time and your biggest issue (it is a problem in all the logs I looked at). You have the belt so don't worry too much about having shards right now. Spend freely and especially when you have multiple Immolates running. Once you get to the stage where you are not wasting then you can cut back a bit if needed to improve Eradication uptime (though I think that will probably increase as well with the extra CBs).

So watch Dots a little more carefully. Use your resources and Doomy (also extra Imp if you go with GoServ) and I expect to see much better logs soon. Good luck!

[Berdine 1]

Thank you so much for the feedback.  All kinds of awesome information there that can be used.

One question I do have.  How were you able to see my artifact traits and relics?  I have yet to be able to find a way to see that info outside of owning the toon.

Thanks

 

 

[Lockybalboa 618]

Warcraft logs shows it on the Summary page.