HotA Barbarian

[Damien 1,514]

This thread is for comments about our HotA Barbarian Build Guide.

[Guest diablo fan]

Great setup, but - at least in theory - I don't like Furious Charge with this build.

 

The mobility is amazing and yes the +30% from Strongarm needs a proc.  But Furious Charge is extremely slow - you will lose uptime on both halves of Focus/Restraint unless you're in dense areas, and you will absolutely lose it on single targets (when you need it the most).

 

Also, thanks to the changes with 2.3, it seems like most elites / bosses / etc. will be knockback immune, thus negating another benefit.

 

I would suggest instead Cleave, and either Scattering Blast (if "knock into the air" counts as knockback and knockback immunity isn't a thing) or simply Gathering Storm for the +10% damage buff for 3 seconds and light CC.  (You could also do Bash - Punish for a longer 5 second buff that only gave +4% damage.  While lower, it synergizes extremely well with the 5 second buff of Focus/Restraint, and technically you could also raise it to 12% with 3 hits).  These give simple damage boosts and otherwise don't get in the way of the need to use a generator every 5 seconds for optimal damage on your spender.

[Deadset 108]

Great setup, but - at least in theory - I don't like Furious Charge with this build.

 

The mobility is amazing and yes the +30% from Strongarm needs a proc.  But Furious Charge is extremely slow - you will lose uptime on both halves of Focus/Restraint unless you're in dense areas, and you will absolutely lose it on single targets (when you need it the most).

 

Also, thanks to the changes with 2.3, it seems like most elites / bosses / etc. will be knockback immune, thus negating another benefit.

 

I would suggest instead Cleave, and either Scattering Blast (if "knock into the air" counts as knockback and knockback immunity isn't a thing) or simply Gathering Storm for the +10% damage buff for 3 seconds and light CC.  (You could also do Bash - Punish for a longer 5 second buff that only gave +4% damage.  While lower, it synergizes extremely well with the 5 second buff of Focus/Restraint, and technically you could also raise it to 12% with 3 hits).  These give simple damage boosts and otherwise don't get in the way of the need to use a generator every 5 seconds for optimal damage on your spender.

Hello and thanks for the detailed comment! I would definitely agree that a generator makes F&R upkeep easier, but that unfortunately doesn't address one of the 'meta' realities in the D3 endgame: fishing for favorable circumstances. In the so-called ideal case scenario (which you will have to make dozens - or hundreds!- of attempts the higher you push), Furious Charge will give you the optimal balance of a movement tool + a Strongarm proc vs. large groups of enemies.

 

I would not worry about the CC reduction as much - it is definitely in effect, but to prevent spam-heavy perma-stun builds. In this case, you only try to proc your Strongarm once every 5 seconds, and you should realistically end the fight with anything that is not a guardian or a yellow elite well within the 20-30 second range.

[Guest FatalFinish]

I am just curious how this build is viable when most of the items are sub lvl 70?

[Guest Eric]

Very nice build, I love it! No more hand cramp from the constant whirlwinding

 

However, I don't understand why you would need the Fury of the Ancients shoulders with this build, you're only spending fury with HotA (and battlerage). All of that is getting refunded and more.

At first, I thought maybe it procced the fury gen. bonus of F&R, but you're saying we should use furious charge to do that.

I'm probably overseeing something here, as I've seen most of the records holding barbs use it with a HotA build, so please tell me why.

[Guest ryan]

eric, its because "all of that is getting refunded and more" is simply not true. If you hit more than 3 enemies then your HOTA cost is not refunded and you are spamming it constantly pretty much (aside from the charge every 4-5 seconds)

[Guest Zaitochi]

Hi I'm just wondering if this build would be effective using Seismic Slam?  I currently have the Fury of the Vanished Peak as my main weapon and I got the bracers that increases the damage of SS provided you hit more than 5 enemies.  Although the skills I use are 2 fury generators with Reaper's Wraps, Warcry and Threatening Shout.

[Guest n3wtonapple]

Very nice build, I love it! No more hand cramp from the constant whirlwinding

 

However, I don't understand why you would need the Fury of the Ancients shoulders with this build, you're only spending fury with HotA (and battlerage). All of that is getting refunded and more.

At first, I thought maybe it procced the fury gen. bonus of F&R, but you're saying we should use furious charge to do that.

I'm probably overseeing something here, as I've seen most of the records holding barbs use it with a HotA build, so please tell me why.

Hi. Without the shoulders, you fury is not close to 100% to proc the Berserker's rage. Tested and confirmed.

[Guest n3wtonapple]

Hey Deadset and thx a lot for another informative and accurately explained build!

 

I have one point to add which makes life a lot easier to keep your Taeguk stacks between packs. Instead of hitting HotA you can just click Battle Rage which will seve to keep you Taeguk activated. When you reach the next pack you switch to HotA spamming and so on and so forth.

 

Battle Rgae does not need th force stand action to activate which makes it so much easier to use while moving, leaving you time to focus on finding the next pack to annihilate!

 

Best regards,

 

n

Edited September 5, 2015 by Oltier
Edited upon request

[Deadset 108]

Hi I'm just wondering if this build would be effective using Seismic Slam?  I currently have the Fury of the Vanished Peak as my main weapon and I got the bracers that increases the damage of SS provided you hit more than 5 enemies.  Although the skills I use are 2 fury generators with Reaper's Wraps, Warcry and Threatening Shout.

 

Hello! Seismic Slam is regarded as a viable, but weaker build option for Immortal King. Do not let it discourage you in playing it, but keep in mind for leaderboard performance.

 

 

 

Hey Deadset and thx a lot for another informative and accurately explained build!

 

I have one point to add which makes life a lot easier to keep your Taeguk stacks between packs. Instead of hitting HotA you can just click Battle Rage which will seve to keep you Taeguk activated. When you reach the next pack you switch to HotA spamming and so on and so forth.

 

Battle Rgae does not need th force stand action to activate which makes it so much easier to use while moving, leaving you time to focus on finding the next pack to annihilate!

 

Best regards,

 

n

 

Thank you for your kind words and on-point observation! You can, indeed, keep Taeguk up with Battle Rage. :)

[Vesque 0]

Why is fury listed so low on the Paragon stat priority? HotA gains 1% crit chance for every 5 fury you have, allowing you to easily hit 100%, and allowing you to roll %HotA damage on items where you would otherwise normally roll crit (for example, helmet).

[Guest Iconik]

I only came by to say that, Deadset, your guides are some of the best available for Diablo 3. They may not always be the most optimized or even current as the season wanes, but your ability to explain in excellent detail the various builds for the game we all love simply cannot be surpassed. I bloviate, I know, but I had to say something. 

 

Big fan.

[Deadset 108]

Why is fury listed so low on the Paragon stat priority? HotA gains 1% crit chance for every 5 fury you have, allowing you to easily hit 100%, and allowing you to roll %HotA damage on items where you would otherwise normally roll crit (for example, helmet).

 

Will be corrected ASAP, made a mistake when pasting the Paragon table. Thanks!

 

 

I only came by to say that, Deadset, your guides are some of the best available for Diablo 3. They may not always be the most optimized or even current as the season wanes, but your ability to explain in excellent detail the various builds for the game we all love simply cannot be surpassed. I bloviate, I know, but I had to say something. 

 

Big fan.

 

Thank you for the kind words!

[Guest Akkaso]

Hey deadset
 

First awesome guide, have been useing it a lot, 

Im thinking why dont you use bane of the stricken instead of teaguk, im currtenly playing TX and bane is doing a good boost on bosses and RG 

 

Best regards 

 

Huge fan

[Guest Tehace]

Hi guys
I have a question about the stat priorities of the items mentioned in this guide.
The list of some pieces include more affixes/ properties than the piece can have.
For example the shoulder piece in this guide has been discussed with 5 affixes, but it only can have 4 primary affixes.

[Guest Shaolin]

Hey bro, first of all, gratz for this guide, very helpfull! But Im wondering here... u've tried this build with Gogok instead Taeguk?

 

I really think its better... im having some probs with maintence Taeguk procs... and Gogok gives an nice AS bonus... as well Exoteric, for toughness, ive tried and i like it, cuz my survivability wasnt good, im playing greater rifts 52-53 with some problems to survive... wht u think? A couple of diamonds will solve toughness problems? Or Esoteric/Gogok/Bane of the Trapped will be the best legendary gems set in my case?

[Warden 8]

Hi guys

I have a question about the stat priorities of the items mentioned in this guide.

The list of some pieces include more affixes/ properties than the piece can have.

For example the shoulder piece in this guide has been discussed with 5 affixes, but it only can have 4 primary affixes.

 

OK, so on those shoulders...

 

Shoulder Stat Priority:

1. Strength

2. Vitality

3. All Resistance

4. Area Damage

5. Life %

 

 

It gives you alternate stats that, though not as good, might help you decide what to pick.  So when comparing two different shoulders, neither one of which will get you all four of the best stats, you can pick the one with Life % knowing it's still better than the one with Life Regeneration.  Similar concept when you have two or more undesirable stats and you're deciding which to re-roll, you would know to re-roll Armor and keep Life %.

[Deadset 108]

 

Hey bro, first of all, gratz for this guide, very helpfull! But Im wondering here... u've tried this build with Gogok instead Taeguk?

 

I really think its better... im having some probs with maintence Taeguk procs... and Gogok gives an nice AS bonus... as well Exoteric, for toughness, ive tried and i like it, cuz my survivability wasnt good, im playing greater rifts 52-53 with some problems to survive... wht u think? A couple of diamonds will solve toughness problems? Or Esoteric/Gogok/Bane of the Trapped will be the best legendary gems set in my case?

 

 

I would swap in a few Diamonds and stick to Taeguk to be honest. It's a tricky gem to keep up sometimes, but always keep in mind you can spam Battle Rage in between fights to keep it up, no need to stop and HotA in thin air.

 

P.S. Thanks for clarifying the stat priority question, Warden! That's exactly what I had in mind when listing the stats.

[Guest diablo fan]

I'm seeing a lot of Veteran's Warning use on the leaderboards instead of Impunity for WC.  How do you feel about the difference between 20% elemental resistance and 30% dodge chance?

[Guest Markus]

Fun version of this build is running leap instead of furious charge. If you use out boots, hammer and RoRG passives from your cube you can get full set bonuses from both IK and MotE sets.

With BoW rings (equipped) and RoRG (cube) it doesn't leave a slot open for either Unity nor CoE. So currently I'm running both Together as one and Striding Giant instead of insanity. Swords to Plowshares on Battlerange to keep me and the ancients alive.

Stacking of the 250% dmg bonus from IK set and Insanity rune?

Since I only run Hardcore I haven't tested the viability endgame but it works in T10 with a normal IK-maul. Also play D3 on ps4 atm so is slightly different what skill combos are smoother to run (diff controls)

[Guest Celiveth]

I have a little doubt. In many configurations, on the weapon, it is indicated as the primary hole without ramalandi´s gift.I don´t understand the reason for this. I always, if the weapon has hole, took it off and put another stat and add the hole with the ramalandi´s gift.

 

[Guest diablo fan]

I'm seeing a lot of Veteran's Warning use on the leaderboards instead of Impunity for WC.  How do you feel about the difference between 20% elemental resistance and 30% dodge chance?

Actually I found a great explanation about the difference between the two here:

http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=29736829&sid=0d291d6e71f87fe76e92bc174f11849d#p29736829

 

Most (but not all) damage is dodgeable. A few things that aren't include the molten, plagued, and poison enchanted ground effects. Ghom gas, things like that. Thunderstorm is dodgeable, arcane beams are dodgeable, electrified is dodgeable, and of course attacks are dodgeable.

There's also one-shots to consider. Dodge doesn't do anything to prevent one shots, while resists will increase your ability to withstand them, but if you're not in one-shot territory in the content you're doing, you can average out better with the dodge.

Also on the complete other end of the spectrum, where all the really scary stuff will one-shot you whether you have impunity or not, it is better to have a chance to dodge it. Impunity really only shines in the medium stuff where it can edge you from one-shot to not one-shot.

 

Adding Veteran's Warning to Wrath gives you a 44% chance to dodge.  That's not the same as DR (and not as reliable) but it's very powerful, especially since this build has to be right next to everything.  It's definitely worth considering.

 

 

Speaking of which, I finally tried this build out as well and the damage really is insane.  It's around 2.2 billion single-target, solo DPS for me with all buffs up (and that's with crappy equipment), ~2.5 B when I get knockback, and that puts the poor WW barb to shame (similar crappy equipment on that one is more like ~650 mil average).  However you REALLY feel the DR loss, and I find this build to be MUCH more fragile - especially without the constant escape and speed of WW.  And if you die with both Ancients and Wrath on cooldown... your chance of recovery is slim.  (You really need a monk for groups as well.)

 

One way I've tried to fix that is running Swords to Ploughshares, which is really nice with this crit-heavy build.  Life per fury spent is good, to the point where I wonder if Bloodthirst might make a good 4th passive, especially if you run a little attack-speed heavy.  (I happen to have two pieces with +Health Globe and that nearly doubles my HotA healing.)  Relentless seems useful, except that the first two benefits actually cancel each other out, which is weird.  So you're left with 50% DR (which translates to about +12.5% effective) under 35% health, which certainly doesn't hurt but I've found it's hardly a life-saver.  There's always Nerves of Steel, but I find myself getting trapped a lot with this build - and that won't save you from not being able to move.

 

One thing I wondered is if it might be worth dumping the Knockback Bracers, wearing Bracers of the First Men, and putting something in the cube like Ice Climbers or Illusory Boots.  The first keeps you from being frozen or jailed, and the latter allows you to move through enemies and walls.  It's a lot of damage to give up for escape, but this build really needs more escape, and the damage is fine, at least through the low-50 Grifts (and that's without Furnace).

 

 

Regarding passives, Weapons Master is another one that is really useful with this build - the extra fury "per hit" can suddenly keep your fury up ALL the time, instead of dropping fast from big groups.  It's seems good for a Hellfire addition if you can swing it, although big groups of non-elites aren't really what's stopping you.

 

It probably won't surprise anyone who has read the WW barb thread that I also like Goguk instead of Pain Enhancer.    The DPS drop is more substantial (about 150 mil DPS for me) but the gain from the faster attack makes up for it against single targets at least, but the CDR is also nice for healing with War Cry or to keep Wrath up during long empty stretches.  PE is probably superior, though, especially since most bosses actually do spawn a few adds from time to time.

 

It's funny but you sort of want to avoid resource cost reduction, even in paragon points.  I'm not sure how IK's 4-piece interacts with HotA costing 18 fury instead of 20; I'll try to do more testing, but I'm wondering if you can halve your effective CDR on Wrath by using any RCR.

 

I think the guide isn't as clear on this, but max fury is worth maxing, at least until your crit on your equipment makes up for it.  Obviously if you have 100% crit on HotA you don't need more max fury, but until then it's worth every drop - absolutely a priority over Strength.  It's also nice to get +fury on your belt - it's definitely worth shooting for that if all your other stats are good.

 

Finally, for those like me who are still sad about not having a Furnace yet, Scourge is still a great 2nd choice.  Its bonus is particularly good with big damage 2-handers, and it adds about ~500 mil effective DPS to me (with all buffs except knockback).  Still not like Furnace, which would add about 1.2 billion to elites, but still:  it's a lot easier to come by.

[Guest diablo fan]

On the topic of damage, it's feels worth pointing out that:  with non-ancient weapons, only one or two ancient armor pieces, and STILL NO FURNACE I have tried or statted out on paper the three non-Raekor builds on this site (the Raekor build feels outdated at the moment, but I have no idea how viable it is), and this build simply blows the other two away when it comes to damage.  My 2.2 billion DPS above was ignoring CotA damage, knockback, and Pain Enhancer stacks and Rampage stacks.  With ONLY FIVE Rampage stacks and at least 2 bleeding enemies in range who have recently been knocked back, including all sources of damage this build goes up to 3.3 billion DPS.  Full Rampage?  More like 4 billion.  Which I'm adding another ~700 mil with Scourge or if I had a Furnace instead, another ~1.8 billion.  (And all this is still ignoring area damage and Bloodshed.)

 

Wrath + BK?  Best I got with non-ancient, non-Furnace was about 650 mil average (using CoE), with another 100+ mil with full Rampage stacks - easily the lowest of the bunch.  The IK/WW Rend build?  Well your Rends can get up to 5 billion each, but that's spread out over 15 seconds.  With two of those stacked, plus PE and CotA damage, you are still only getting about 1.2 billion DPS.  Full Rampage gets you up to 1.5 billion, which is great - but it's still only like half of IK/HotA.

 

When it comes to survivability, the order is reversed:  Wrath/BK is amazing, thanks to higher DR and constant escape and speed from Whirlwind.  The others are both a distant 2nd, although IK/WW/Rend is probably the stronger of the two defensively since it also uses WW for escape.

 

I wanted to post some example numbers because this isn't something the guides get into, but both anecdotally and on paper, this build is the absolute strongest when it comes to pure damage, and you NEED that damage to complete the higher Grifts.  I didn't realize it was so much different until I played with a HotA barb for the first time and just watched packs melt in a group T10 rift.  The difference was palpable.  If you can support this build with a strong support Monk and drop Unity for CoE... yeah, you can spike over 10 billion DPS for 25% of the time.  (That's not including the Mantra bonuses or other Monk boosts, which can get you over 12 bil.)  That's why people like this build in groups so much, especially in two-player teams with Monks.  But it comes with a tradeoff, and that is your survivability MUST be supported or you will crumple like a paper doll.  (This is why you'll see people using full diamonds instead of rubies - you have DPS to spare, but you NEED that survivability.)

[Deadset 108]

When it comes to survivability, the order is reversed:  Wrath/BK is amazing, thanks to higher DR and constant escape and speed from Whirlwind.  The others are both a distant 2nd, although IK/WW/Rend is probably the stronger of the two defensively since it also uses WW for escape.

 

This observation matches my experience - particularly when comparing the IK variations, Rend was much easier to handle solo, while HotA devastates in groups. I average in the 12 billion range per HotA and my Barbarian still has improvements to be made.

[Guest D3 Q]

I am struggling with fury (and therefore WotB uptime). You said:

 

 

 

The 2-piece bonus assists you with the cooldown reset for a reason — the chosen rune  Together as One is the foundation of your Toughness, while the  Ancients' Fury rune (acquired through gear) is the basis of Fury management

 

 

I am new and sure I have missed something, but what is the gear source of Ancients' Fury?  Thanks.