Subtlety Rogue help?

[isendier 1]

Hello, I am currently trying to raise my dps as a subtlety rogue, usually it lays around the 25-30k but it seems like my regular melee attacks does way more damage than any of my abilities. which doesnt seem right?

 

 

I am currently mostly pvp geared for assasination.

 

 

here is my armory :http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/grim-batol/Isendier/advanced

log is in the comments.

 

 

I hope that i posted this the "right" place and that someone out there can help me

 

-Isendier

Edited September 7, 2015 by isendier

[Carrn 284]

Sorry, but your post is sort of confusing me - are you looking for more damage as Sub in PvP? Or in PvE? Cause the two play very differently. Either way I can help you not a problem, I'm just looking for some clarification :)

[isendier 1]

Ive edited the post Carrn, im trying to raise my dps in pve - just to make it clear

 

- it wont let me post a new graph so ill try it here: highmaul LFR: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XnwjFcBRMqGfg4vJ

(advanced logging enabled)

Edited September 7, 2015 by isendier

[isendier 1]

Ive come to realize that the problem may be because of the high mastery stat i have. I'm currently working on getter stats that suites subtlety better.

 

But any tips at all?

[Orthios 271]

Ive come to realize that the problem may be because of the high mastery stat i have. I'm currently working on getter stats that suites subtlety better.

But any tips at all?

Stats are a small portion of your dps, changing your stats around won't change your dps as much as tightening up and perfecting your rotation will.

[lipsinch 46]

Few things on your rotation (I've looked only the Brackenspore kill)

 

- Overusage of Garrote. Use once on opener to trigger SV. That's all folks. Damage is super negligible, you got Rupture for that.

- Vanish + Prep. You could've fit 3 Vanishes in there, and thus extending your biggest "CD" - Find Weakness. You took too long to blow your first Vanish - should've been right before the first FW fell, followed by Preparation. Your second Vanish is 30s later after it's off cooldown, so you're wasting at least 15s on boss without Find Weakness (which sometimes can be the difference between a kill and a wipe).

- Rupture should NEVER fall off. It's your main damage, even some small downtime means a significative damage loss. 93% isn't abysmally bad, but you should aim for 99%+;

- Bracken is a cleave fight, you can Rupture-tab the other add and use it to generate CPs faster with FoK while your Rupture ticks and Evisc away your hearts' content. Remember, if there are adds you can FoK and a main target, do it and dump everything else on main - else, Rup-tab;

- It's more practical, but not optimal: don't macro your Shadow Reflection with your Shadow Dance. You should be making your shadow copy your Rupture, and you shouldn't be Rupturing inside Shadow Dance. So, make it 2 buttons, gives you better control. Shadow Reflection > Rupture > Shadow Dance;

- Hemo does negligible damage, just use it as a cushion for your Rupture timing (it's a pain in teh ass to control it with MS proccing 24/7). Don't use it to generate combo points (except on extreme positional requirements), and don't overlap it before it's pandemic timer.

 

As for stats, I don't know how the weights are now (you should sim your toon), but MS and Mastery are good 2nd stats for Sub.

 

So, yeah. tl;dr

 

tighten your timers;

unbind your cds;

use more vanish/prep;

99% Rupture uptime;

 

Hope it helps.

[isendier 1]

Lipsinch: Yeah, I am stil working on the rotation, I am currently getting better at openers etc, but about the mastery part, I get 61% weapon speed from SnD and therefore i assume i should get more multistrike.

But thanks for the opener advice, I guess i've been trying to save the cd's or something like that, I'll try it out.

and the macro with shadowdance and reflection, Yeah i get your point and will remove it, however the Icy veins guide as i recall says its best to use it as a macro.

 

Overall thanks for the advice :)

[lipsinch 46]

Mastery doesn't increase only SnD effectiveness, but also the damage from your finishers, Evisc, Rupture and CT. So you can expect heavy Eviscs and hard hitting DoTs. Though I don't know at what extent MS outweights Mastery and vice versa, so the best bet is simming your toon really. =)

[isendier 1]

uhm.. Simming my toon? can i get a translation? :)

[Orthios 271]

uhm.. Simming my toon? can i get a translation?

Simming your toon means getting simulationcraft (or go to shadowcraft, I'm not sure which is better for rogues tbh) and running a sim with stat scaling turned on in the options.

[Carrn 284]

Both Shadowcraft and SimCraft are good, but Shadowcraft is much easier to use for beginners so that's where I would recommend starting. I gave your character a quick Sim for you, and your damage is pretty close to where you can be

 

I have a couple suggestions: 

 

1) What Lip said is good advice, so I won't expand on that

 

2) In order to get comfortable with the rotation, sit on a target dummy for 4 minutes at a time (drop combat after Shadow Reflection comes up the second time). It won't be perfect, but it will help you get used to timing your openers and cooldowns

 

3) Getting new trinkets, a ring, and the set bonuses will be very beneficial to you. Your ilevel is plenty high enough to get a group for normal HFC (Heroic too, even) and you can use those to get some good upgrades which will push your damage a lot

[isendier 1]

I dont think any group will take me because most of my gear is pvp related :)

[Orthios 271]

I dont think any group will take me because most of my gear is pvp related :)

There's no penalty for wearing PvP gear in PvE content, it just doesn't scale up to it's PvP level.

[isendier 1]

Oh, I have a friend that says the opposite, anyways ill give it a try :)

[lipsinch 46]

Sorry, but your friend still lives in Pandaria. Tell him to search for PvP Pallies back in 6.0 (or 6.1?) with their absurd PvP 4pc topping meters in PvE.

 

No offense. :>

 

Edit:

 

isendier, keep us updated! I'd like to see how our fellow Rogues are evolving. =)

Edited September 9, 2015 by lipsinch

[isendier 1]

I'll keep 'em coming then :)

heres a log from earlier today, im not sure if any progress yet but im working on it :) 

 

- some of HFC LFR log: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/1a3JDpycMXx6AKV4

[lipsinch 46]

Hey!

 

Ok, feedback time:

 

Tyrant:

 

- Try pre premeditation - use it before the pull and activate SnD like 2s before Premeditation resetting (it has 20s for usage, but the 2CP you earn wears off in 18s - try to time with that count)

- Too much Garrote. You use it only once @ opener. No more than that.

- You can cast more Vanishes. 1m30 per Vanish CD, the fight lasts 6 min. That means you can at least cast it 4 times if you use on CD PLUS 2 times with Preparation. So, you gotta use it 6 times.

- SnD uptime was under 90%. Remember, 99% uptime. No SnD = no energy = no damage.

- Rupture was good with 97%. Work on those 2% left, but try to not overlap them.

- Kidney Shot. Prolly a misclick.

- Only use Hemo when you're unable to provide a full 5CP Rupture on the target or either it'll die really quick that's not worth using Rupture on it (or due to positional requirements). For everything else, forego it. You overlapped Rupture with Hemo on adds twice and 4 times on boss when Rupture was active yet.

- The adds were stacked for a while on boss, so you could've used that situation to generate more CPs using FoK. That makes your life easier, the CP flow increases and you have room to wiggle with your buffs (or even squeeze more DPS).

- Make use of your other defensive CDs. You don't have only Feint, you got CoS, Sprint, Smoke Bomb... You could've taken less damage, specially if you're on soak duty.

 

And I'ma sleep, wrote this while having a DR, lol.

 

Tomorrow or some time later I check the other fights. If anyone is willing to take a look, please do so. It's 1am and I'm sleepy enough to let something slip away (or I didn't have the knowledge really, I'm no master).

 

Edit: Forgot to mention - nice squid hat.

Edited September 12, 2015 by lipsinch

[isendier 1]

heres a log from highmaul earlier today, i have to remember to delete old logs because some HFC is in there too.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/WB6ycPdYqRVH34fX

Also the high amount of hemorrhage is because the LFR tanks kept turning the bosses -.-¨

And thanks I've been fishing before i log 

 

But I've got a question about the SnD because if find weakness is about to run out, but SnD is too. Isnt the priority to get another eviscerate on him while the debuff is up? (and then reapply SnD as quickly as possible afterwards)

 

 

Thanks for the feedback It's good to see what i can do better

 

edit: 

and heres one from HFC up till kilrogg - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/nA9BR7DaXrYKWqd6/

 

I really screwed up in some of these fights with rupture at 70% at one, i feel bad for uploading it but well any feedback is good feedback :D

Edited September 12, 2015 by isendier

[Carrn 284]

Keeping the energy regen from SnD is more important than using Evis, but it really depends how many combo points you have at the time - if you have enough to use both finishers right in a row, then Evis > SnD

[isendier 1]

Oh, allright thanks Carrn. That has been confusing me from the start :)

[isendier 1]

I've got another question guys :) During shadowdance, and theres like 4 sec left but you got full combo points and anticipation. should you throw an eviscerate and maybe a single ambush (depending on energy) or try to get 2x ambushes in instead?

[lipsinch 46]

If you're full CP, Eviscerate; last second of SD you Ambush to extend Find Weakness 10s more. It's pointless Ambushing while full CP, you'll just throw away potential damage (CPs).

[isendier 1]

Another question here :) I have a headpiece and legs, 715 ilvl non tier piece. and i have a 710 headpiece and 685 legs both tier pieces. would it be better to go for higher ilvl or to get the bonus from tier pieces? (keep in mind i only have those two tier pieces)

[lipsinch 46]

I don't think it's worth dropping 2pc, losing 5CP and 30% dmg on Vanish seems big to me.

 

I'm not sure of it (better if someone else confirm this), but I wouldn't drop it.

[Carrn 284]

Yeah I wouldn't drop it either. Keep the offset pieces just to see what Tier you do get, but the tier pieces are better