[Balance] Trinket and stat weights discussion.

[szymonowy 0]

Hello fellow druids.

I've been playing  for years as a restoration druid, just recently I've been asked to play as a boomkin to help out the guild. Since we're starting to get to mythic bosses (just hit 12/13 hc) I've started to do extensive research on my class.

I'm talking mainly about trinket usage and stat weights. I've been reading a lot of stuff about what should i do and how i should itemize, but nearly none of the things i've read exaplained *why* exactly.

For instance, I've been reading that mastery is the stat to go, followed with crit and haste. That have been true for lower ilevels, but as i got to 712, my simulations show something entirely different - haste vastly overperforming mastery. I've wanted to start a discussion, becuse maybe I'm missing something. Just wanted to mention that the tier faeries don't get any damage boost from mastery at all.

As for trinkets, I've just wanted to ask for your experience - which trinkets to use on which encounter. I've had a conversation with several druids stating that the class trinket should be used on most of the fights, and i just can't agree with it.

For example  - i had strong recommendations to use it on Velhari fight. I can not see the logic with it, starfall is good when there's at least 2 targets alive for the duration of the spell. At that very fight only the second add meets that requirement. First add dies too fast, and the 3rd add gives Velhari such damage reduction, the starfall hits are worth close to 0.

Anyway, sorry for the wall of text, I'd love to hear your point of views. If you could, please do state your progress into HFC when posting.

Here's my armory page http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/silvermoon/Dirtyfrank/

 

Cheerio!

[Druantis 0]

Dirty Frank,

 

I too have switched to haste enchants (except, of course, weapon) as I just enjoy the class more (heavy movement fights where I can still finish my casts) and the drop from 114% mastery to 106% mastery (raid buffed) made little difference.  If you look at stat weights the difference is less than 4% dmg difference between them and this is for ideal perfect parses (which don't happen, and which even simulationcraft doesn't account for). 

Also, the "haste over other stats" has come up in askmrrobot and simulationcraft results and, though theory crafters have noticed it, they have sofar ignored it completely in favour of their beliefs (think flat earth).  I prefer more haste for higher 4-piece dmg, more starsurge procs and faster casts (starfire cast time and standing around being a turret drives me crazy).  Their justification has been that the higher you have of one stat, the more other stats sim higher because of the synergistic interaction between stats. 

So if you have all mastery, haste will sim higher, if you have all haste, mastery will sim higher.  As logic though, this does mean you should add haste for that exact interaction reason, which I focus on now that my mastery is above 100% (raid buffed).

 

I have also looked at warcraftlogs and armory for top boomies and the variations between haste and mastery and crit are so large, and keeping in mind that there is less than 4% dmg difference between stats, that the only conclusion I have been able to arrive at is that procs, trinks, item level, spell power (from weapon) and especially ability make a much larger impact.  Go haste and enjoy the game more.  It is a game.

I'm only 5/ mythic though.

 

Druantis-Stormreaver

Edited October 22, 2015 by Druantis

[Druantis 0]

Oh, and in case you think I'm exaggerating or just spouting my own personal beliefs/views, here is a 95% parse on heroic (all mastery):

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2bKVYZ6fdmN1hpRq#fight=3&view=rankings

 

And then a 95% parse on mythic (haste enchants):

 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QtaZ3KMfwc8CLTPy#fight=8&view=rankings

 

Hope this helps.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Druantis

[Krazyito 521]

Are you running Sims with different enchants? Or are you using a scale for weights.

Remember Sims can be a bit misleading with weights because the more you have of a specific stat, the less value it becomes (or vice versa, less of a stat the more valuable it becomes) EDIT: the poster above me beat me to this. Thanks.

I was at a point while progressing where I had about 500 total haste, which made haste skyrocket in value for me because I had so little, but putting on haste over mastery actually lowered my multitarget damage. Eventually I got the right peices of gear and my haste went up with mastery staying the same / going up.

To be honest, stats will make up about 5% of your damage or less once you're at a decent amount of mastery. These small "optimizations" won't do anything for you. Another 90% comes from practice and playstyle. Learn to play the spec properly and find niches where you can do more damage (lunar = turret with empowerment as much as you can)

Lastly the last 5% (or more) comes from pure RNG on how often your proc your trinket and weapon or of they proc at the right times (CA / LUNAR)

[szymonowy 0]

Hey guys.

 

Thanks for your input. Since my last post I've switched to quite a bit more haste, and though I'm not seeing a noticable increase (or decrease) of damage ouput, it is a lot more enjoyable. Those faster starfires are fantastic.

 

Any thoughts of the trinkets you like to use in HFC? I don't have a lot of oportunities to test out stuff so I'd really appreciate your thoughts. I've got access to pretty much all heroic trinkets, Sandmans pouch, and normal class trinket right now, so a lot to choose from.

[Krazyito 521]

DSI, Seed,Piston. If they are all heroic chipped soul prism is good instead of piston

Basically DSI for everything + seed for multitarget or piston for single

[ayx2016 0]

I have Unblinking Gaze of Sethe (with 50 mastery in socket) and the normal class trinket as my primary trinkets since this is what Mr. Robot recommends.

 

I also have IRP Heroic (705) and CSP, sounds like this is probably what I should be using according to your recommendations and the BiS guide here, are those trinkets really better than Unblinking with that much int, I thought Int was our primary stat?  I've seen Mr. Robot admins say Unblinking would takeover even DSI if proc goes through like 2 or more targets, granted that's not always possible, but I'm just wondering if the trinket is not that great by itself.

[Krazyito 521]

Here are sims to help.  Gaze is just terrible overall for balance.

Note: this is a bit outdated, but its should still be pretty true

Note2: This is only on a single target / patchwerk fight.  SoC comes out to be better once more targets are introduced.

 

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1781645-Balance-T18-BiS-Progression-Discussion?p=34495245&viewfull=1#post34495245

 

[ayx2016 0]

Interesting thoughts on Gaze, AMR takes a different perspective (here http://forums.askmrrobot.com/index.php?topic=11415.msg61549#msg61549),I guess because their calculations are a mix of AoE/Single whereas your SIMs are all single, well thanks a lot for the trinket combination SIMs, guess I will keep trying to get DSI.

[Envydius 0]

I have question about new heirloom trinket - 715 ilvl Orb of Voidsight. Where is this trinket in rankings "best in slot". Thanks for reply ;). Thinking about it, it looks very good - base int. and nice proc - crit, haste, mastery - perfect stats. - It must be better than trinket from kazzak :) - That trinket is in rankings on the 5th place. 

 

I have the same questing about healer trinket. But it looks very bad :/ versa. and crap use. 

[Krazyito 521]

DPS wise, the void trinket is very good on fights such as fel Lord and possibly mannoroth.

You pair it with DSI and you have crazy burst during your CA/Incarnation.

Almost any fight that the boss is considered a demon, that trinket will usually out perform Seed of Creation (any ilvl)

[moonianna 0]

I'm unsure which trinkets to keep. right now i have Chipped soul prism, Sandmans pouch, heroic version of Sethe and Prophecy

[Krazyito 521]

I'm unsure which trinkets to keep. right now i have Chipped soul prism, Sandmans pouch, heroic version of Sethe and Prophecy

 

I answered this question here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1781645-Balance-T18-BiS-Progression-Discussion?p=38674319&viewfull=1#post38674319