5.2 Warlock Simulation

[JvChequer 43]

I agree...it's a nasty good trinket. I dislike when one piece of gear makes you so much better. I just happened to be on the lucky side of someone who acquired it early.

But even for Affliction - in single target - U.Vision could be better than BotH?

[gahhda 95]

But even for Affliction - in single target - U.Vision could be better than BotH?

I posted updated action lists for unerring vision for all three specs. If used properly, with decent rng, its bis for all warlock specs. That being said, it is more RNG than the other trinkets because of the 4 second window to use it properly.

For affliction its a few thousand dps ahead of wushoolays/breath last I checked. Keep in mind we're talking 3-4k out of 205k+ here. At most 3% ahead, AT MOST. Then again, I'm pretty sure I could min/max it A LOT more for affliction. Right now I've just set it up to keep the 100% crit chance rolling as long as possible. But, I'm entirely sure that at some level of int, the DPT is higher than with 100% crit chance and 0 int procs, so I could play with that a bit on another day.

[gahhda 95]

I made a first pass at gear min/maxing with updated weights for affliction, should get around to demo/destro later tonight. It appears that haste may drop in value drastically after the 2nd doom breakpoint, which was expected, so.

[gahhda 95]

Looks like, for destro:

1 target - haste > mastery > crit

2 targets - haste > mastery > crit

3 targets or more - mastery >> haste > crit

Thats sustained though, if you count the fact that you get much more shadowburns off throughout a fight, and therefore even more embers, mastery should become insanely inflated. Another dev, max, and I are going to attempt to setup more realistic portrayal's of in-game encounters via adding adds, periodic spawn, set health amounts. With that, and some insane action list tweaking, I'm sure it'll show mastery >> haste > crit.

I'm thinking mastery > haste > crit for now, for my own personal use.

Edited April 9, 2013 by gahddo

[Glorn 1]

Interesting that you value haste so high,lately I've been running with ~5k haste and crit and 7.3k mastery and it was working quite good,got some nice gear upgrades on sunday and now I have 2pc t15 bonus and 2pc t14 bonus 8.2k mastery 5k crit and 5.2k haste.

I would reforge that crit into more haste,but the thing is I have Cha-Ye's which is crit dependant.Currently I'm happy with my trinket uptimes because both Cha ye and Wush are over 20% uptime on most of the fights.

So I'm wondering,does anyone have idea what would be the result if I will drop 1.5k crit for haste if it comes to trinket uptime?Does simcraft answer that question?

Also what is the value of 2pc T14?I have thunderforged pants which I'm not using cuz I use 504ilvl tier pants for that bonus.

I'm playing destro mostly,on some fights switching to demo.

[Zagam 1,982]

Your secondary stats aren't going to swing your DPS if you reforge some 1500 rating. Your Cha-Ye's will take a slight hit, but that's it. This is why I'm NOT pushing for Cha-Ye's as any Warlock spec. I just don't see Crit being as valuable as Haste or Mastery. With my builds, I rank pretty often on fights where I get to DPS. My logs are linked in my signature. On fights like Tortos, I'm the shell kicker, so that detracts some of my focus. Fights like my recent Ji'kun parse (#3), Iron Qon parse (#3), and various top 50 parses show that Haste is a very attractive stat. However, I could also go full Mastery and likely parse just as close, if not a little higher. My problem is I bounce between Demo and Destruction, although I think the only reason I'm still Destruction is Heroic Horridon. I'm thinking of actually reforging down to the Doom breakpoint (8097) and grabbing a bit more Mastery but that's only because I'm running Sacrifice and those Imps are incredible.

[gahhda 95]

Destruction has such a high passive crit chance overall due to chaos bolt that chaye's is perfectly viable. Breath wasn't proccing off RoF in simc until last night, thats been changed now, so its slightly ahead.

That 8097 breakpoint is only with legendary meta/bloodlust up, which I wouldn't rely on considering unerring completely supersedes any other procs for doom application. 13153 without the 30% is the 2nd breakpoint.

The 2pc/4pc are pretty bad this tier. Last I checked, for destro/demo, the 2pc was less than 1.6% for both, and the 4pc was less than 1% for both. We have, probably at least, the worst 4pc of the entire tier. The demo 4pc sees usage on cleave, but the destro one is just generally bad. Because of this, 3 thunderforged = 4pc. Which, if you check my armory, is why I'm using my two heroic pieces instead of 4pc. Hoping to get some pants from somewhere this week :< (I've got the valor this week if nothing drops). Just giving my tier to other people because its more valuable to them sadly.

[Zagam 1,982]

I disagree in terms of the synergy with the Demonology 4pc bonus. The 2pc bonus is almost not needed as no one ran out of Demonic Fury during Dark Soul. The big buff with the 10% DF gain with the 4pc bonus is combined with the huge amount of Imps that we have generated. On Council, with 4 100% crit Dooms running on all the bosses, I was in Meta and could NOT use Demonic Fury. I was capped for a solid 30-45 seconds because I couldn't spend it faster than I was earning it. It's VERY close to the same effect on single target, and this is without the use of Imp Swarm. The 10% extra DF gain increases your Metamorphosis uptime by quite a bit which is magnified by proper use of the trinket.

I think the 4pc for Affliction and Destruction is pretty lack-luster. The 5% lift on MG and DS are pretty crappy. The 8% proc rate for a double Ember is almost unnoticeable even when it does happen. I think the Demonology one is great. Sad to see the EPIC 4pc bonus of T14 get scrapped for higher item level gear, but that's how you progress. Hopefully the T16 bonuses don't suck this bad.

[gahhda 95]

From a single target perspective the 4pc isn't very good for demonology because of the 2pc and the fact that we don't need anymore than we have for dark soul. All the extra 10% goes into periods outside of cds, which means its basically doing a slightly buffed version of the non-meta dps. Meta itself isn't drastically better than caster form, its just that it works amazingly with frontloaded cds. With the absolute minimal overcapping in simc the 4pc is pretty much as bad as it is for destruction.

[gahhda 95]

From a single target perspective the 4pc isn't very good for demonology because of the 2pc and the fact that we don't need anymore than we have for dark soul. All the extra 10% goes into periods outside of cds, which means its basically doing a slightly buffed version of the non-meta dps. Meta itself isn't drastically better than caster form, its just that it works amazingly with frontloaded cds. With the absolute minimal overcapping in simc the 4pc is pretty much as bad as it is for destruction. That being said, the 2pc isn't great for the same reason.

That was supposed to be an edit and I accidentally hit quote -_-.

Edited April 9, 2013 by gahddo

[Vilthrim 1]

Hey Zagam, thank you for the fantastic work first of all.

I have a question about the lock simulation on Simcraft. I'm kinda new to this "tech" for the game, although I'm really interested on this - love theory crafting. Here it goes: I was looking for the best dps pet for Destro, so I went here http://simulationcraft.org/520/Pets_and_Grimoires_-_Destruction.html#player6 and it shows that Fellhunter is the pet to go. Buuuut...when I click on it, to check the data, it shows service_fellhunter. Does that mean that the dps chart is aplied to GoServ - calling fellhunter - or the 'main' pet?

I'm sorry if this is a 'dumb' question, but I'm like a "donkey staring at a palace' here.

Many thanks

[Zagam 1,982]

When you compare pets, it'll list Felhunter for Grimoire of Service. It'll say Observer for Grimoire of Supremacy and Sacrifice if no pet is listed in the damage parse. The DPS chart usually separates the two Felhunters. The main one will have its particular name while the Service called one is called, simply, Felhunter.

[Vilthrim 1]

Oh! Got it man, thanks ^~

[Nytemare 2]

So I confused on how to work this simulation, I set everything picking the biggest literation and setting core to 4, do all buffs, and debuff and runt he sim, now at the end it give me stat weights are these weights only based off what my current forge, gems, enchants and gear is? or these the weights I need to enter into like ask mr. robot or wowreforge and click the OPTIMIZED button to see what I need to reforge everything to and what gems and enchants I need? I trying to figure out what are my stat weights for my current gear so I can have the best forge values and stuff.

[Razzildazzl 0]

Howdy folks, I have a question regarding newest version of simcraft.

I have Hydra trink and the shadopan rep trink.

Simcraft is telling me Mastery over haste.

I'm wondering why it is valuing mastery over haste as from what I've read Haste is the way to go.

Is it my lack of tier gear and legendary meta?

Here is my armory if it helps

http://us.battle.net...zildazzl/simple

Edited April 13, 2013 by Razzildazzl

[Hexenmeister 0]

what fight style would u use for TOT ? :)

[Cruzan 71]

Regarding simcraft. Is there an easy way to get the APL for Demonology when you have Unerring equipped? Does the default APL change automatically if it sees that Unerring is one of your trinkets or will I have to edit the /cast doom cycle line manually? I noticed there are a couple of extra lines between the unerring apl and the default apl so I'm not sure if anything else would need to be editted as well.

Thanks for any help!

[Zagam 1,982]

So I confused on how to work this simulation, I set everything picking the biggest literation and setting core to 4, do all buffs, and debuff and runt he sim, now at the end it give me stat weights are these weights only based off what my current forge, gems, enchants and gear is? or these the weights I need to enter into like ask mr. robot or wowreforge and click the OPTIMIZED button to see what I need to reforge everything to and what gems and enchants I need? I trying to figure out what are my stat weights for my current gear so I can have the best forge values and stuff.

As stated before, secondary stats will be a minor contribution to your overall DPS if you play your specialization correctly, so try not to put so much time into worrying about secondary stats instead of worrying about perfecting your play. That said, you will have unique stat weights at every single possible gear situation. If you change just one reforge, your stat weights will change slightly. If you go full Haste, Mastery may look better while if you go full Mastery, Haste may look better. The stat weights you see are measured DPS per point of secondary stats that contribute to your DPS AT THAT GEAR LEVEL. While Crit may look good at a particular reforge, it turns out that as you stack more Crit, the stat weight of Crit goes down. You really don't need to figure this out every single time you get an upgrade. Pick a playstyle you like and go with that as a secondary stat build. Just don't pick Crit.

Howdy folks, I have a question regarding newest version of simcraft.

I have Hydra trink and the shadopan rep trink.

Simcraft is telling me Mastery over haste.

I'm wondering why it is valuing mastery over haste as from what I've read Haste is the way to go.

Is it my lack of tier gear and legendary meta?

Here is my armory if it helps

http://us.battle.net...zildazzl/simple

Read my response to the above poster.

what fight style would u use for TOT ?

ToT is very vague when it comes to describing the fights you want to simulate. You can't simulate any of them except MAYBE Durumu as Patchwerk as long as you never switch. It does have some mechanics, so your fight style will change depending on how comfortable you are at continuing to DPS while doing mechanics. Jin'rokh is a single target fight with movement and an environmental buff. Horridon has tons of add switching. Council is a long, drawn-out multi-target fight, but they're rarely stacked up to burn. Simulations aren't going to be your answer for finding the optimal way to execute a fight. World of Logs rankings will be a much better resource here. Once you see a log of someone, just armory them to find their setup (note: sometimes they change this per fight, so what you see isn't what was used).

Regarding simcraft. Is there an easy way to get the APL for Demonology when you have Unerring equipped? Does the default APL change automatically if it sees that Unerring is one of your trinkets or will I have to edit the /cast doom cycle line manually? I noticed there are a couple of extra lines between the unerring apl and the default apl so I'm not sure if anything else would need to be editted as well.

Thanks for any help!

The most recent Simcraft version has the following line, which I feel portrays the trinket correctly:

doom,cycle_targets=1,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&buff.perfect_aim.react&(crit_pct<100|dot.doom.remains<60)

This appears to do what it looks like it should do since the Crit chance of Doom is MILES ahead of the Crit chance of the rest of the spells. Changing to Grimoire of Sacrifice and equipping this trinket with the above listed line is what pushed Demonology's Simcraft value from 190k to 205k. It's that sweet.

[gahhda 95]

Just a heads up so people don't freak out:

Simc is currently in the process of updating all t15h profiles to full thunderforged. After much discussion, we decided it was the best thing to do. Only a few have actually done so thus far, warlock, dks, enh, hunters, so the t15h raid output on the site is a little goofy right now. Should have all 27 'specs' updated in the next few days.

[Zagam 1,982]

All Thunderforged? Now people are going to let those simulated numbers freak them out more! Gahddo, you will create a mass panic! Btw, won't that be a major pain in the ass since all of your secondary stats will increase, you'll surely break hit and expertise caps? I don't envy your work.

[gahhda 95]

All Thunderforged? Now people are going to let those simulated numbers freak them out more! Gahddo, you will create a mass panic! Btw, won't that be a major pain in the ass since all of your secondary stats will increase, you'll surely break hit and expertise caps? I don't envy your work.

Observe for yourself, warlocks went in last night. I just pushed the 'rest' of them, frost mages/ele shamans are being done by other people. So 25/27 specs are updated, but that doesn't mean they're fully optimized. Everyone gained dps, but I'm no expert on specs I don't play, so everyone may not be optimal quite yet.

The ones I pushed should show on the t15h raid output in ~1-2 hours.

[JvChequer 43]

Btw, now with only 518.9 ilvl my hit rating is totally screwed, I'm 70+ points above Hit cap - and ignoring a 60 int socket bonus - and there is nothing i can do about it. I'm reforging ALL HIT I can. DAMN U WUSHY TRINKET!

I just imagine in high gear, how high will be the loss of stats.

I'll start gemming stamina+haste in Blue sockets, better than nothing. 600k HP, here we go.

Edited April 22, 2013 by JvChequer

[gahhda 95]

Btw, now with only 518.9 ilvl my hit rating is totally screwed, I'm 70+ points above Hit cap - and ignoring a 60 int socket bonus - and there is nothing i can do about it. I'm reforging ALL HIT I can. DAMN U WUSHY TRINKET!

I just imagine in high gear, how high will be the loss of stats.

I'll start gemming stamina+haste in Blue sockets, better than nothing. 600k HP, here we go.

If you get buttfucked by rng and EVERY SINGLE HEROIC DROP YOU GET HAS FREAKING HIT ON IT, then yes. You can easily gear around it in BiS profiles, but who outside of top guilds actually gets full BiS *sigh*.

[Zagam 1,982]

Hunter in my last guild was gemming Stam + Agi in blue sockets because of Hit issues. This is one reason I don't want Wush. I don't plan on ever playing Affliction again, so Breath + Unerring are my desirables. Cha-Ye's wouldn't be terrible, but ugh @ that Crit rating. I'm pretty sure unreforged Wush is 4.6% of the 15% hit you need. It's an absurdly high amount.

[gahhda 95]

Hunter in my last guild was gemming Stam + Agi in blue sockets because of Hit issues. This is one reason I don't want Wush. I don't plan on ever playing Affliction again, so Breath + Unerring are my desirables. Cha-Ye's wouldn't be terrible, but ugh @ that Crit rating. I'm pretty sure unreforged Wush is 4.6% of the 15% hit you need. It's an absurdly high amount.

+160 int is a better choice in those blue sockets in *almost* all cases, in terms of dps. Notice that I have 0 purple gems -.-.