5.2 Warlock T15 Set Bonus & BiS List

[Zagam 1,982]

So it'll create theorycrafting nightmares...because what if Unerring procs right when you have no other procs. Is it worth updating procs later despite having a 100% crit chance for the remainder of the duration? What if Unerring procs at stack 5 out of 10 for Wushoolay's? Wait for more Intellect? What is worth more?

To be honest, this sounds like a nightmare for those of us who try to prove what trinkets are better with math. The synergy of this will be just outrageous.

[Omaric 246]

We'll see if this makes it live. Snapshotting a 15000 Intellect bonus along with a 100% crit chance will make RNG give Affliction the best DPS parses possible because we could have a 30k Intellect 100% crit chance 10 stack of Agony for 40 seconds. With decent RNG, but not incredibly difficult to obtain, one could keep this bonus on Agony permanent with careful monitoring of procs.

Yeah when I saw that the snapshot only affected boomkins and shadow priests I pitched a tent. When I passed the info onto my team they were like, "that shit's yours dog." Then I pitched another tent.

[Zagam 1,982]

I kinda hope it doesn't snap shot Crit for Affliction. Managing this trinket will be a bloody nightmare.

[Omaric 246]

Assuming it works how we want. I mean, I just don't get the feeling that Wu's trinket will fully trump critting every single Agony for the next 36 seconds.

I just had a thought. Would the Malefic Grasp ticks factor in the snapshot crit of the dots for the extra ticks or your base crit? Hmm....

Edited February 19, 2013 by Omaric

[Zagam 1,982]

Good question. See why I said this thing would be a theorycrafter's worst nightmare? Too many questions even after we know what it does.

[Omaric 246]

I'll ignorantly state that I feel your pain.

Make your nerd magic happen! <3

[Cruzan 71]

Screw theory. Gimme dem crits.

On a side note, will we not be seeing RPPM trinkets proc so reliably during our opener as compared to our current trinkets? I usually don't pay enough attention to my Jade Spirit proc during the opener to see if/when it pops up during the opening sequence. I guess I'll just go fiddle around with a target dummy and see what I find.

[Ezzyz 0]

Three things I glanced at that need to be updated on the front page. Crit does snapshot, simply log on to the ptr and use the trinket. You're mistaken critical damage like skull banner, which is dynamic, with critical strike increase. Both easily testable on a dummy.

Second, you brush off the MH+OH combo because of crit, yet probably didn't actually compare the items..Once you look beyond the one secondary on Athame of the Sanguine Ritual and Lei-Shen's Orb of Command you'll notice that the combo gains 200 int and 402 crit over the staff's 261 haste and 74 mastery.

Stacking int trinket in theory would appear to be a strong candidate for 2nd to breath of the hydra, but the proc from unerring is more powerful, especially for a low crit spec such as aff. In the current build (which will most likely be the release candidate), breath / unerring vision will be the two bis for aff.

In regards to unerring vision and MG: The ticks from MG and the added dot ticks crit in the 4 second duration, they do not derive the benefit from the primary dots snapshotted damage.

Edited March 1, 2013 by Ezzyz

[Zagam 1,982]

I haven't brushed anything off. I clearly stated that my lists were a first stab at things and there would be changes. It's not like it's my only job to sit here and make things correct...I just do what I can with the time available and always appreciate others' insight. Secondary stats are still being measured so there can't be a deciding factor on BiS gear until that decision has come. However, you are correct in that you should almost always opt for a MH and OH combination rather than a staff.

Early testing has shown a proc chance of Unerring to be abysmally low. Like there are a lot of recorded attempts where it proc'd one time in 4 minutes. One guy had it proc back to back then didn't see another proc for 8 minutes. I hardly think that Unerring will end up being BiS with simply an Intellect buff with no measureable meaningful proc. It is extremely unlikely to have other procs rolling when Unerring pops gaining the full benefit of the extra throughput.

Also, the current build won't likely be the release since they've stated they haven't put 16550 up on the PTR yet, so there are modifications coming that you can't even test on the live PTR. Don't underestimate Blizzard's ability to change things 4 hours before they release something.

[vladMTL 1]

hey

you guys reckon is it wort getting the volatile talisman of the shado-pan assault and change it with RoY ?

thanks o/

[Cruzan 71]

Hey Zagam,

Any insight in to the slight changes to RealPPM GC posted about earlier today?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7923993861?page=109#2169

Specifically if class abilities such as Dark Soul will affect the RPPM rate? It sounds like we'll still be fine since DS increases spell haste and not casting speed which seems to be what GC was referring to. Just wanted to confirm.

Theres also a bit about the base RPPM multipliers for the legendary gem on there, but i think he removed them since a couple were listed incorrectly. Demo and Aff looked fine though before he took his numbers down:

Demonology: 0.519

Affliction: 0.610

Destruction was listed as 9.631 lol

[Zagam 1,982]

Destruction has been fixed to something like .560. RPPM proc rates annoy the crap out of me. You can't model them and anyone who says they can doesn't understand true randomness. An RPPM trinket/meta with no CD will never be able to be simulated. You can theoretically get 5 procs back to back just as much as you could not get a proc in 10 minutes. The best advice I can give is play your class as well as you can and let the RNG procs do what they must.

[gahhda 95]

What you overlook is that, while those cases can happen, they're also so horribly unlikely to happen that the odds are in your favor that they never will. I'm not saying you're entirely wrong, I think what they've done with RPPM this patch has been idiotic to say the least. ICD/PPM trinkets aren't broken, why fix them. That being said, unerring is theoretically BiS for every warlock spec. I say that with a heavy THEORETICALLY.

For destruction/affliction I think it will be much easier to pull off using the trinket, but for demo you can get into risky situations where it procs while meta is on cd. I dislike it, and probably won't use it at all. Relying on a 4 second proc to react, and optimally use, DURING fight mechanics, seems really difficult. Its probably the easiest to use for affli who can just SB:SS when its up and let the dots roll as long as humanly possible. Its 1% ahead of the next best for affliction and destruction, and well into 10% ahead of the next best for demonology (because of doom gimping in simc). I hate the trinket, but it may see its hilariously op uses on fights like council where you can get off 2-3 100% crit dots, whether that be doom or sb:ss.

BiS for demo/destro outside of unerring are BotH and CEoB on heroic, the shado-pan trinket isn't in simc yet but I imagine its very strong.

For affliction, wushoolays slightly beats out CEoB because of snapshot gimping with a 15k int proc being op.

[Zagam 1,982]

Personally I hate all of the new trinkets. Their uptimes pale in comparison. Light of the Cosmos has a 43-45% uptime while most of these will not see the better part of 20-30% uptime. Their effects, however, are incredible. 15k Intellect? 100% Crit? 8000 haste? Sign me up! BUT...watching for when they proc and immediately reacting is awful.

This goes back to why Relic of Yulon > Essence of Terror beceause RoY lined up with LotC so that you had both trinkets running together most of the time. We have a tendency to look at trinkets only from a proc standpoint which is a decent way to look at them, but most people overlook the passives. Unerring may be BiS because of the huge amount of passive Intellect on it. By comparison, RoY had 1000 Int passively with a 3000 Int proc with 30% uptime. 30% of the time you got the 1000 Int, but also an additional 3k Int meaning if you played Affliction or timed Doom correctly, you could make those procs last a long time. Plenty of time to react = plenty of time to set up maximum settings.

Wush has a very small window for snapshotting, but you can anticipate it. At t=19 and t=20, you'll have your maximum stacks so you could time applying your DoTs in this window with relative ease. You could even be a baller about it and slap out a pre-casted Haunt so that it lands right at t=19. Not bad. For Destruction, it would be a great time to start preparing a Chaos Bolt around say t=16 depending on distance from the boss. If you get that CB to land at t=19 or t=20, you're in business. Demo could also use it by gauging how much DF you have, pooling it until you get to t=10 or t=11 and get 10 seconds of Meta empowered DPS with a static growing Intellect. If you were SUPER ELITE, you could pop out of Meta right as you did a Touch of Chaos at t=20 to leave a super empowered Corruption running until you popped back into Meta.

My beef with Unerring is the super low reaction time. Remember, most spells have travel times. Now with Weakauras or some other notification system, you could be alerted to the trinket proccing almost immediately. Let's assume you notice the proc AND are not casting something already when it happens...

Affliction would have time to SB:SS no problem. Haunt does have a travel time, so I think all you'd worry about is applying SB:SS and hope that you're not nerfing your DoTs (doubtful, but possible). Now imagine you apply your DoTs with SB:SS then Bloodlust, another trinket procs, your Meta helm gem procs, Jade Spirit Procs, and you pot...would it be a DPS loss to override your 100% crit chance DoTs with these mega empowered DoTs? My guess is yes because the super empowered DoTs can still crit, will be ticking for much more than normal damage deflating the benefit of the 100% crit chance and when they crit, they would do supreme damage. This is the worst-case scenario for Unerring, but it could happen. The opposite could happen...you could have all your procs rolling when Unerring procs...dear god I feel bad for whatever you're hitting at that point. My guess is World of Logs will become super skewed by RNG procs with this trinket.

For Demonology, you'd have time to apply Doom...other than that, what benefit could you possibly get with it? Maybe 2 Soulfires? A Hand of Guldan? What if you don't have any charges? What if your Demonic Fury was JUST spent and then it procs? A 4 second window for Demonology is rather pitiful.

For Destruction, forget timing a Chaos Bolt. Using Backdraft to fire off Chaos Bolt is a huge DPS loss, but I think it would be the only way to get off a 2.5+ second cast and deal with a 1+ second travel time. So would you use two Conflagrates for the double Embers? Probably your best bet, but what if they're off CD? Slap up Immolate? Good choice here...hard to say.

This trinket has so many scenarios that can arise that you cannot determine how good or bad it will be in any one situation. That's what raiding usually comes down to...one particular attempt or situation. Are you banking on a trinket with an RPPM that says it should only pop once every 2 minutes with a measly 4 second uptime? If you like playing that way, go for it. I, myself, for both Demo and Aff, will be playing with Breath/Talisman + Wush. Just like earlier in the tier when the choice came out to be hit capped or not...I chose hit capping because of the better sustained performance and ease of play over possibly maximizing my performance at the cost of paying much more attention to my procs/hits/misses.

Right now I'm using a 484 Relic of Yulon and a 510 Light of the Cosmos. The Talisman might be my first purchase if I don't get Wush tonight (we plan on knocking out 5-6 bosses) and will replace RoY. If I get Wush, Wush will replace RoY and Breath will eventually replace Light of the Cosmos. Everyone should have their own plan based on their current procs, line up, and potential of obtaining new trinkets soon.

[Cruzan 71]

Everyone should have their own plan based on their current procs, line up, and potential of obtaining new trinkets soon.

My plan is to never upgrade so I don't have to update my weakauras

[JvChequer 43]

Right now I'm using a 484 Relic of Yulon and a 510 Light of the Cosmos. The Talisman might be my first purchase if I don't get Wush tonight (we plan on knocking out 5-6 bosses) and will replace RoY. If I get Wush, Wush will replace RoY and Breath will eventually replace Light of the Cosmos. Everyone should have their own plan based on their current procs, line up, and potential of obtaining new trinkets soon.

Would u Replace Talisman for Breath of the Hydra if u have both?

'cause looks like BotH have a better proc but worse flat stats and lower uptime.

Edited March 6, 2013 by JvChequer

[gahhda 95]

I think you misunderstand slightly how chaos bolt functions. The stats of it are snapshotted at execute, not on impact. The travel time has nothing to do with its damage. If you get the cast itself off with the 100% crit buff up, you get the damage increase, regardless of the bosses location. Debuffs are the only things that are calculated on impact. Its actually rather easy to see the proc within the first second and get off a ~2.5 sec chaos bolt with raid haste in my current m/c sac setup. Thats also outside of bloodlust, the new meta, and troll berserking. I, personally, will have fun on a few fights with that trinket. Get a proc on tortos, havoc tortos, shadowburn spam a dead turtle, 100% crit chance shadowburn x 3 on the bosses face above 20%. Even if you can't get off a chaos bolt, say you have 3 backdraft up when it procs, you can still get off a 100% crit chance immolate. Which, throughout a full duration, is a lot of damage AND embers.

For demo, you almost double the crit chance of doom throughout a fight with the trinket. That means that ontop of the DPET of doom going WAY up, you also get basically double the # of wild imps. People seem to really underestimate the value of those suckers.

Edited March 6, 2013 by gahddo

[Zagam 1,982]

Until there is proof that the extra crit chance increases Chaos Bolt damage further, I won't back off of my view that the trinket sucks. I had Talisman proc almost every 45 seconds last night as soon as I got it. Same static Int but a more noticeable proc...to each their own on the new trinkets. No one will convince me that Unerring is a DPS gain over well utilized CDs and other trinket procs.

[jazzycakes 0]

I'm Aff (~505ilvl) and was going to purchase volatile VP trinket tonight, and was gonna run with that with breath.

But now that you guys have shown me the light with Wush's trinket, should I spend my VP on something else if the upgrade to breath is only going to be minor/better to give to someone else? Or keep it (We're 6/12 atm) and replace volatile with Lei Shens trinket if the crit is snap shotted as well?

Just trying to figure out what to do with my valor, I would be upgrading 504 Essence / 510 Cosmos

[rooter 0]

2pc Bonus Destruction: While Dark Soul: Instability is active, Chaos Bolt and Shadowburn consume 20% less Burning Embers.

Chaos Bolt and Shadowburn both cost 1 burning ember. How the heck can they consume .8 burning embers?

[Omaric 246]

You gain embers in increments of .1 actually. =D Once it adds up to a whole number it's usable.

[Bearlolz 0]

Should you break 4pc t14 for 522 gear?

[Zagam 1,982]

2pc Bonus Destruction: While Dark Soul: Instability is active, Chaos Bolt and Shadowburn consume 20% less Burning Embers.

Chaos Bolt and Shadowburn both cost 1 burning ember. How the heck can they consume .8 burning embers?

As Omaric stated, imagine your burning embers as 40 parts, not 4. Normally, you can cast CB at 10/40. You can cast 2 at 20/40, etc. So if you were to stack embers for a burn phase, you could get to 40/40 and burn 4. With the 2pc bonus, you could now burn 5. If you were at 40/40, you'd burn one and go to 32/40, burn another go to 24/40, 16/40, 8/40, and 0/40. Same effect with Shadowburn. This set bonus essentially gives you another nuke during your burn phase.

[Zagam 1,982]

Should you break 4pc t14 for 522 gear?

I personally don't break a set bonus until I obtain the 2pc of the next bonus. Up to you. Is your 4pc made out of 483 LFR gear or 509 heroic gear? You present an awfully loaded question...what spec are you talking about? Does your guild knock down lots of bosses for chances at other tier tokens? How well do you stack CDs with your current 80 sec DS versus if it was 120 sec?

[fastforward 0]

for me the question isnt to break T14-4piece, i think more about T15-4piece VS 4 thunderforged items with "perfect" stats.

another question about the 4sec 100% crit procc from that trinket, why that will not roll with pandemic?

hope u can give me some answers, and may save me a lot of time i need to sim. ^^

greetz