5.4 Demonology Tips and Quirks

[ookingdooker 0]

Hey, I was just curious and looked up your logs zagam. You did really good dps as demo on durumu. http://worldoflogs.c.../?s=8478&e=8843

I was wondering did u spam touch of chaos whenever your trinkets proc'd? or did u only do it to refresh corruption and to fury dump while dark soul is active?

I'm not sure how you're pulling so much dps as demo even on single target fights like durumu. I have similar ilvl, and I don't think I can get above 120k on that fight

http://us.battle.net...dooker/advanced

Heres my armory. I'm reforged for affliction, but like you said, I think it works for demo as well

Second question:

In Aoe situation like horridon or tortos, for demo, what you do is:

in cast form, you build up demonic fury through channeling hellfire + hand of gul'dan and putting corruption on as many targets as possible. Then once you get 750+ fury, you go into meta after casting hand of gul'dan x 2, Put doom on as many targets as possible, then u use immolation aura + void ray? All the while using pet's felstorm. Does that sound about right?

Edited April 21, 2013 by ookingdooker

[Zagam 1,982]

Hey, I was just curious and looked up your logs zagam. You did really good dps as demo on durumu. http://worldoflogs.c.../?s=8478&e=8843

I was wondering did u spam touch of chaos whenever your trinkets proc'd? or did u only do it to refresh corruption and to fury dump while dark soul is active?

I'm not sure how you're pulling so much dps as demo even on single target fights like durumu. I have similar ilvl, and I don't think I can get above 120k on that fight

http://us.battle.net...dooker/advanced

Heres my armory. I'm reforged for affliction, but like you said, I think it works for demo as well

Second question:

In Aoe situation like horridon or tortos, for demo, what you do is:

in cast form, you build up demonic fury through channeling hellfire + hand of gul'dan and putting corruption on as many targets as possible. Then once you get 750+ fury, you go into meta after casting hand of gul'dan x 2, Put doom on as many targets as possible, then u use immolation aura + void ray? All the while using pet's felstorm. Does that sound about right?

For Durumu, I have two trinket procs: Unerring and Volatile Talisman. Unerring was ALWAYS used to refresh Doom. When Volatile procs, I don't really care about it because it's just 8800 Haste. I prefer for that proc to happen in caster form, but you can't always get what you want. If it procs in Meta, I carry on about my business as usual.

For Tortos AoE, you don't have time to slap Corruption on each mob. Most of your AoE damage will come from properly placed Hand of Guldan and the resulting Shadowflame. Always save Felstorm and Grimoire:Felguard for that. Insanely good numbers. You can see what I did in the same log on Tortos. Horridon is dependent on your tank to organize, gather, and focus your adds in a neat pile. If this can be done, slap Doom only on things that will live long enough for a tick.

[Glorn 1]

Yey I finally got Unerring and it is a Thunderforged one! Just remind me please what's the 2nd Doom breakpoint it was over 9k haste or sth?Need to reforge a little bit and gonna start testing Unerring.And I guess it might be time to drop destro and go Demo/Affli,with Lei shen trinket and 522ilvl I think it's the way to go,though I got 3 trinkets,Cha-ye,Wush and Unerring

Edited April 21, 2013 by Glorn

[Simpaw 3]

Articles like this are the reason I joined Icy Veins and made a donation to the site. It's refreshing to find articles written in good English with clear explanations of techniques that really work. Thanks for your work on this! Vive les démonistes!

[gahhda 95]

Yey I finally got Unerring and it is a Thunderforged one! Just remind me please what's the 2nd Doom breakpoint it was over 9k haste or sth?Need to reforge a little bit and gonna start testing Unerring.And I guess it might be time to drop destro and go Demo/Affli,with Lei shen trinket and 522ilvl I think it's the way to go,though I got 3 trinkets,Cha-ye,Wush and Unerring

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq0Il4UdQAxhdDFYTlNnbnFrRjQxSUQwM01NZElVUEE#gid=7

6th doom tick (+2 from normal) - 13153 with 5% spell haste raid buff

12602 goblin + raid buff

8094 with raid buff + everlasting affliction

14840 for 7 ticks with raid buff + everlasting affliction

I gave the EA versions for unerring vision gaming on council of elders.

[Zagam 1,982]

What does Everlasting Affliction have to do with the Haste threshold value? All it does is increase the duration of your DoTs by 50% and reduce the damage by 20%. So normal Doom is 60 seconds and with Pandemic, you can get 90 seconds. With EA glyph, Doom is baseline 90 sec and you can get to 135 sec via Pandemic. Or am I not understanding why you put + EA?

[gahhda 95]

What does Everlasting Affliction have to do with the Haste threshold value? All it does is increase the duration of your DoTs by 50% and reduce the damage by 20%. So normal Doom is 60 seconds and with Pandemic, you can get 90 seconds. With EA glyph, Doom is baseline 90 sec and you can get to 135 sec via Pandemic. Or am I not understanding why you put + EA?

60 second duration, 4 ticks

60 / 4 = 15 second tick interval

90 second duration, 6 ticks

90 / 6 = 15 second tick interval

to get +1:

60000 / (5 - 0.5) = 13333.333333333333333333333333333

vs

90000 / (7 - 0.5) = 13846.153846153846153846153846154

13333.333333333333333333333333333 rounded to no decimals, add 0.4999, 13333.4999 adjusted tick speed, 15000 / 13333.4999 - 1 = 0.12498594611306818249573017209083 required haste unbuffed

vs

13846.153846153846153846153846154 rounded to no decimals, add 0.4999, 13846.4999 adjusted tick speed, 15000 / 13846.4999 - 1 = 0.08330625850074934821615100000831 required haste unbuffed

Lots and lots of mumbo jumbo to determine breakpoints. This is why we have spreadsheets to do it for us.

Edited April 22, 2013 by gahddo

[Zagam 1,982]

Wow, so Everlasting Afflic uses the new baseline duration for Haste calculations...so is this why you don't like Haste as much? It would appear through this glyph, that all DoTs would require less Haste to hit higher numbers of ticks...very interesting. I'm thinking of taking the EA glyph regardless of encounter as Demonology. I'm finding that fishing for those RNG procs in a 90 second window sometimes doesn't happen leaving me in the dust in the end of encounters. Sustaining 250k+ for 1:30 of a fight then watching it trickle off because of no Unerring procs sucks. I don't particularly want to crunch probability numbers, but I would guesstimate the odds of getting another Unerring proc in a 135 second window is a helluva lot higher than a 90 second window.

I need to brush up on my statistics, but wouldn't the setup look like this...

522 Unerring with 20% Haste = .596 RPM (100 sec average CD)

Without EA Glyph, you're looking at an average proc interval of 100 sec when you need 90 sec for full-coverage. The longer a fight lasts, the less likely you are to have full coverage. Here, your desired mean of 90 is less than 100 by a factor of 10%.

With EA Glyph, you're looking at an average proc interval of 100 sec when you need 135 sec for full-coverage. Here, your desired mean of 135 is far greater than 100.

Not terribly sure how to set that up (eternally grateful to some statistical whiz out there), but I would think the odds of you having full coverage 100% Doom crit with the EA glyph would be damn near 95%+ while without it, you're looking at less than 50%. I'm not looking for the uptime % of the 100% Crit Doom...more at the % chance that you'd have 100% Crit Doom up for every single tick. I'm browsing through some Durumu Demo logs and the top 10 all use the EA glyph as well as Wild Imps. Their top damage is Soulfire, which makes me think that they're timing their Demonic Fury and Soulfire procs during Wild Imps so that they never run out of DF. The EA glyph ensures that 100% Crit Doom never falls off thus generating more Imps on average. Still not sure on how big of a difference Wild Imps really is, but the EA glyph looks highly desireable regardless of encounter.

[gahhda 95]

Wow, so Everlasting Afflic uses the new baseline duration for Haste calculations...so is this why you don't like Haste as much? It would appear through this glyph, that all DoTs would require less Haste to hit higher numbers of ticks...very interesting. I'm thinking of taking the EA glyph regardless of encounter as Demonology. I'm finding that fishing for those RNG procs in a 90 second window sometimes doesn't happen leaving me in the dust in the end of encounters. Sustaining 250k+ for 1:30 of a fight then watching it trickle off because of no Unerring procs sucks. I don't particularly want to crunch probability numbers, but I would guesstimate the odds of getting another Unerring proc in a 135 second window is a helluva lot higher than a 90 second window.

I need to brush up on my statistics, but wouldn't the setup look like this...

522 Unerring with 20% Haste = .596 RPM (100 sec average CD)

Without EA Glyph, you're looking at an average proc interval of 100 sec when you need 90 sec for full-coverage. The longer a fight lasts, the less likely you are to have full coverage. Here, your desired mean of 90 is less than 100 by a factor of 10%.

With EA Glyph, you're looking at an average proc interval of 100 sec when you need 135 sec for full-coverage. Here, your desired mean of 135 is far greater than 100.

Not terribly sure how to set that up (eternally grateful to some statistical whiz out there), but I would think the odds of you having full coverage 100% Doom crit with the EA glyph would be damn near 95%+ while without it, you're looking at less than 50%. I'm not looking for the uptime % of the 100% Crit Doom...more at the % chance that you'd have 100% Crit Doom up for every single tick. I'm browsing through some Durumu Demo logs and the top 10 all use the EA glyph as well as Wild Imps. Their top damage is Soulfire, which makes me think that they're timing their Demonic Fury and Soulfire procs during Wild Imps so that they never run out of DF. The EA glyph ensures that 100% Crit Doom never falls off thus generating more Imps on average. Still not sure on how big of a difference Wild Imps really is, but the EA glyph looks highly desireable regardless of encounter.

You just both blew my mind, and got demo +4k dps in simc. YOU ARE THE FREAKING MAN.

[Calenthaurin 1]

DELETED

Edited April 22, 2013 by Calenthaurin

[gahhda 95]

Question, zagam, how did you figure out if they were using EA in logs or not? :o

[Zagam 1,982]

Gahddo, we might be the one-two theorycrafting punch Warlocks need!

I looked at their gear level and their Doom and Corruption ticks compared to mine. Saw a 17-23% drop in their Doom and Corruption crit ticks from mine. The two I looked at stack the living hell out of Haste like I do, so I found the assumptions to be pretty healthy. That's a pretty healthy assumption in that they're using the glyph. Went to their profiles and saw it on them in their current Demonology spec, so while it's not concrete, I think I'd throw money at what I found.

[gahhda 95]

Gahddo, we might be the one-two theorycrafting punch Warlocks need!

I looked at their gear level and their Doom and Corruption ticks compared to mine. Saw a 17-23% drop in their Doom and Corruption crit ticks from mine. The two I looked at stack the living hell out of Haste like I do, so I found the assumptions to be pretty healthy. That's a pretty healthy assumption in that they're using the glyph. Went to their profiles and saw it on them in their current Demonology spec, so while it's not concrete, I think I'd throw money at what I found.

Confirmed it by looking through some of the top warlocks that have been blessed to actually get unerring to drop, a large part are using EA full time. NOW UNERRING IS EVEN MORE HILARIOUSLY BROKEN.

[Omaric 246]

Being broken never felt so right.

[gahhda 95]

Being broken never felt so right.

He sets up the pitch...and...and....BOOM...

INSIDE THE PARK HOME RUN!!!

[Sifon 25]

Tried Everlasting Affliction + Imp Swarm yesterday on normal bosses. When Imp Swarm timed with Bloodlust+Tempus Repit with my 13k haste, cooldown is 45-50 seconds. Even with only Tempus Repit, cd is 70 seconds while 5x Demonic Calling cooldown is 75 seconds.

#20 parse on Twin Consorts http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-45tqf8fzlki6kxm9/details/300/?s=9951&e=10427. It was almost perfect RNG I had %90 crit on Doom and if I remember correctly, Imp Swarm always lined up with Tempus Repit.

#43 parse on Iron Qon http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-45tqf8fzlki6kxm9/details/300/?s=8502&e=9125. That rank was suprised me to be honest because I played really bad, I reacted Perfect Aim late and overwrote %100 crit Dooms with regular ones and I ended up 2nd on damage done but Tempus Repit procced 14 times and resulted %20 uptime.

#58 parse on Durumu http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-45tqf8fzlki6kxm9/details/300/?s=4708&e=5070. I didn't end up as high as expected even though I got enough luck to get %100 crit on Doom. We wiped once because there was a puddle on safe zone and I was doing 165-170k before I die to Eye Sore.

#78 parse on Dark Animus http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-45tqf8fzlki6kxm9/details/300/?s=6975&e=7267. What a random fight, I ended up 3rd because I almost did 0 damage before boss activates due to our tactic but I had highest damage on Dark Animus. When I got Perfect Aim, I also put some Dooms on Massive Anima Golems to get more Imps.

As result, I think Everlasting Affliction is definately a dps gain but I'm not sure about Imp Swarm. It is risky, if it lines up with extra haste, it is a dps gain else its a loss but a minor one. I'm thinking about playing Demonology on Horridon next week and get rid of Desturction completely, any tips about Horridon as Demo? Or I can play Affliction if Demo is not performing good enough in that fight.

[Zagam 1,982]

Interesting. I HIGHLY doubt you're going to see such luck with Imp Swarm and Tempus Repit popping at the same time a lot. It is an interesting thought that if you pop Imp Swarm during tons of Haste procs that your CD drops to a value well below the average which would indicate a big DPS gain. However, as you said, relying on that is sketchy at best. A lot of the top Warlocks are using Imp Swarm, and I know it benefits your opener in a big way...I just see it as preferring mountains and valleys of damage instead of a somewhat more sustained flow. To each their own maybe?

For Horridon, it's all on your tanks to stack adds together. If done properly, Demo would have some powerful effects here with Shadowflame. Destro has an amazing execute AND good AoE, so it's hard to justify another spec, but justifying one spec for one fight also has its flaws. Just keep your 100% Doom on Horridon (obviously), pop Meta to nuke important adds (Wastewalker, Venom Priest, Dinomancer, etc) and I'd definitely take Grim of Service. The only thing that'll be annoying here is handling the pink dino in Heroic Mode. If you remember to blast it with Fel Flame, I'd do that. You could also cheese it and slap Doom on him. If you got a 100% Doom and it popped Imps, I wonder if those Imps would keep it away permanently. Never tried it, but thought just came into my head. I might try it this week...or tonight. I'll let you know if it works out.

[gahhda 95]

Tried Everlasting Affliction + Imp Swarm yesterday on normal bosses. When Imp Swarm timed with Bloodlust+Tempus Repit with my 13k haste, cooldown is 45-50 seconds. Even with only Tempus Repit, cd is 70 seconds while 5x Demonic Calling cooldown is 75 seconds.

#20 parse on Twin Consorts http://www.worldoflo...?s=9951&e=10427. It was almost perfect RNG I had %90 crit on Doom and if I remember correctly, Imp Swarm always lined up with Tempus Repit.

#43 parse on Iron Qon http://www.worldoflo.../?s=8502&e=9125. That rank was suprised me to be honest because I played really bad, I reacted Perfect Aim late and overwrote %100 crit Dooms with regular ones and I ended up 2nd on damage done but Tempus Repit procced 14 times and resulted %20 uptime.

#58 parse on Durumu http://www.worldoflo.../?s=4708&e=5070. I didn't end up as high as expected even though I got enough luck to get %100 crit on Doom. We wiped once because there was a puddle on safe zone and I was doing 165-170k before I die to Eye Sore.

#78 parse on Dark Animus http://www.worldoflo.../?s=6975&e=7267. What a random fight, I ended up 3rd because I almost did 0 damage before boss activates due to our tactic but I had highest damage on Dark Animus. When I got Perfect Aim, I also put some Dooms on Massive Anima Golems to get more Imps.

As result, I think Everlasting Affliction is definately a dps gain but I'm not sure about Imp Swarm. It is risky, if it lines up with extra haste, it is a dps gain else its a loss but a minor one. I'm thinking about playing Demonology on Horridon next week and get rid of Desturction completely, any tips about Horridon as Demo? Or I can play Affliction if Demo is not performing good enough in that fight.

Has nothing to do with lining up with haste procs/cds, and everything to do with lining up with dark soul. The haste cds are just an added bonus on top. If using it at the haste cd results in 30% more throughout the fight, then yay, otherwise its best to save it for DS to get the +30% damage.

I tried to express this in simc, but it nets a dps gain within error margin:

actions+=/imp_swarm,if=buff.dark_soul.up|(cooldown.dark_soul.remains>(120%(1%spell_haste)))

*Spell_haste returns inverse in simc, and % is the logical operator of division.

In my mind, this is the best way to go about using imp swarm. If you're sure its going to be up for dark soul, then use it, otherwise delay. It all depends on your personal haste, and the RNG of your haste procs/cds.

Imp swarm IS A DPS GAIN, regardless of haste procs. The strength of delaying it for the +30% damage from dark soul is FANTASTIC.

[Zagam 1,982]

Dark Soul is a dynamic buff in that it buffs all existing Imps when you pop it. Since I usually have an average of 4-5 Imps out already because of Doom Crits and Demonic Calling, I would already have buffed Imps able to be sure they are always buffed. If you were to DELAY Imp Swarm, I'm seeing a DPS loss as your Imps would decrease in value. If you're stacking Haste, your CD isn't going to line up with Dark Soul unless you get the CD of Imp Swarm to drop all the way to 60 seconds so that every other Imp Swarm is Dark Souled. I've ended some fights with 8+ Imps without Imp Swarm, so I'm having a bit of a hard time believing that delaying any CD to line up with a buff that would buff already present Imps would be a DPS gain. More sustained Imps = more Demonic Fury generation = higher Metamorphosis uptime. I'd rather have 5-10 Imps consistently than 5 Imps for 1:40 and 10-15 Imps for 0:20. The only way I see it being an overall DPS gain is if you get the CD to be 60 seconds or if burst is required in the fight.

EDIT: I perhaps see your point now...do you mean that you pop the holy jesus out of your Imps at the beginning and let your CD of Wild Imps come off CD, but you STILL delay it until Dark Soul is up letting your Demonic Calling call out more Imps in the meantime? Is this still a gain despite the baseline 4 second penalty on Demonic Calling for using Imp Swarm glyph? If you had enoug haste to bring Imp Swarm from 120 sec to 80 sec, you would bring Demonic Calling from 20 sec to 13.5 sec. Without considering Doom procs, I see the following:

Imp Swarm (total Imps spawned)

t=0 - 5 Imps

t=80 - 1 Imp (80 sec Wild Imps CD comes off CD)

t=94 - 2 Imps (10 sec Demonic Calling + 4 sec penalty)

t=108 - 3 Imps

t=122 - 4 Imps + 5 Imps from Wild Imps (Dark Soul off CD)

No Imp Swarm

t=0 - 1 Imp

t=13 - 2 Imp

t=27 - 3 Imp

t=40 - 4 Imp

t=53 - 5 Imp

t=67 - 6 Imp

t=80 - 7 Imp

...

t=120 - 10 Imp

We generate additional Imps at this Haste level. I'm not sure 30% extra damage outweighs the effect of just having an Imp out. This is completely disregarding any Doom proc'd Imps. Those Imps proc regardless of Imp Swarm. I'm having a difficult time seeing a DPS gain OR loss, it just seems to balance out. Very open to being proven wrong.

[Sifon 25]

Zagam, I was delaying Imp Swarm a little(like 15 secs max) if I don't have Tempus Repit up when it comes off cooldown, it is even more risky but I think there is a lot to gain also. PFF I HATE RNG.

Gahddo, my Imp Swarm cd is 87 seconds with raid haste + my own haste, 67 seconds with Tempus Repit. In both situations, there is no logical way to make Imp Swarm line up with Dark Soul. In first case I have to delay 3rd Imp Swarm 54 seconds or 2nd Imp Swarm 33 seconds and in second case I need to delay Dark Soul 14 seconds for 3rd Imp Swarm. Having more imps with or without Imp Swarm is why I play with 13k haste. To line up both, sometimes I delay Imp Swarm 15-20 seconds but never delay Dark Soul. If there is an optimal way to solve this situation, I would love to hear.

Also I'm having trouble with Demo+goSac opener. If Perfect Aim procs, I go meta, 2x Doom, 1x ToC and leave then I pool fury until Corruption runs out and use Hand of Guldan charged without going into meta in that period. But if Perfect Aim doesn't proc, I find myself spamming Shadow Bolts until I have enough fury for 10 seconds, then use HoG charges and go into Meta. If I'm unlucky at start, I can't do any damage and its pretty annoying.

[Zagam 1,982]

Zagam, I was delaying Imp Swarm a little(like 15 secs max) if I don't have Tempus Repit up when it comes off cooldown, it is even more risky but I think there is a lot to gain also. PFF I HATE RNG.

Gahddo, my Imp Swarm cd is 87 seconds with raid haste + my own haste, 67 seconds with Tempus Repit. In both situations, there is no logical way to make Imp Swarm line up with Dark Soul. In first case I have to delay 3rd Imp Swarm 54 seconds or 2nd Imp Swarm 33 seconds and in second case I need to delay Dark Soul 14 seconds for 3rd Imp Swarm. Having more imps with or without Imp Swarm is why I play with 13k haste. To line up both, sometimes I delay Imp Swarm 15-20 seconds but never delay Dark Soul. If there is an optimal way to solve this situation, I would love to hear.

Also I'm having trouble with Demo+goSac opener. If Perfect Aim procs, I go meta, 2x Doom, 1x ToC and leave then I pool fury until Corruption runs out and use Hand of Guldan charged without going into meta in that period. But if Perfect Aim doesn't proc, I find myself spamming Shadow Bolts until I have enough fury for 10 seconds, then use HoG charges and go into Meta. If I'm unlucky at start, I can't do any damage and its pretty annoying.

The opening is VERY ugly if you don't get Perfect Aim in first 3 seconds. The formula protection in this is very good for wiping as long as you don't get a proc RIGHT before you die. I need to figure out the exact time needed after a proc to guarantee a proc at the next opening. If you get a proc, wipe, and run back quickly, you're not likely to see one as you open up. Frustrating, I know.

[Sifon 25]

Sometimes I find myself AFKing in trash to get guaranteed proc at start of the fight. If I take out my UVoLS and put my Cha-ye's instead for trash, how likely to get a proc at the first pull after trash?

[gahhda 95]

Dark Soul is a dynamic buff in that it buffs all existing Imps when you pop it. Since I usually have an average of 4-5 Imps out already because of Doom Crits and Demonic Calling, I would already have buffed Imps able to be sure they are always buffed. If you were to DELAY Imp Swarm, I'm seeing a DPS loss as your Imps would decrease in value. If you're stacking Haste, your CD isn't going to line up with Dark Soul unless you get the CD of Imp Swarm to drop all the way to 60 seconds so that every other Imp Swarm is Dark Souled. I've ended some fights with 8+ Imps without Imp Swarm, so I'm having a bit of a hard time believing that delaying any CD to line up with a buff that would buff already present Imps would be a DPS gain. More sustained Imps = more Demonic Fury generation = higher Metamorphosis uptime. I'd rather have 5-10 Imps consistently than 5 Imps for 1:40 and 10-15 Imps for 0:20. The only way I see it being an overall DPS gain is if you get the CD to be 60 seconds or if burst is required in the fight.

Those imps will be there regardless. You have to entirely remove them from the equation.

Doom imps here -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- demonic calling/imp swarm here

MATHS TIME:

BiS has 42.01% haste raid buffed, this makes the CD on imp swarm 120 / 1.4201 = 84.5011 seconds, the ICD on demonic calling becomes 24 / 1.4201 = 16.9002 seconds.

Without any haste procs from tempus repit we get a pretty picture with there numbers:

DS cd 120 seconds - 84.5011 = 35.4989 second gap. Imp swarm comes off cd, dark soul comes off cd ~35.5 seconds later. In that time period you can effectively get two demonic calling procs.

Net result being you get a total of 5 + 2 = 7 imps in 2 minutes, or 3.5 imps per minute.

Using imp swarm off cd:

5 imps per 84.5011 seconds, 3.5502496417206403230253807346886 imps per minute

The difference is absolutely minimal. This, of course, being an extreme case of haste stacking. For most other people the net result will be a decent bit of imps more using off cd because you'll end up with 1 extra from demonic calling, which is 3 imps per minute.

At 3 imps per minute, thats a loss of 15.4989% of your total wild imps.

The math to figure out the EXACT benefit from lining 6 imps with every DS + 1 extra in the middle VS the weird chances of them lining up with dark soul just by naturally using it off cd etc...is way too daunting for me to care to work out right now.

Net result in simc, with no haste procs (didn't turn off BL because im too lazy to remember the syntax) and no doom to discount those little imp bastards, lowering the haste to below what I shall now refer to as...THE WILD IMP BREAKPOINT!:

On cd - 28.5 imps, 10338300 damage, 362747.37 Damage/Imp

Delay for ds - 25.9 imps, 10821600 damage, 417822.39 Damage/Imp

28.5 * ( 1 - 0.154989 ) = 24.0828135. I'll chalk the 1-2 imps up to bloodlust and call it a day.

As you can see, it doesn't make a huge difference with NOTHING in the sim. But, when you start adding in haste procs and all that good stuff, it starts to add up to a healthy increase. The total # of imps decreases, but the damage of each imp sky rockets. At the higher haste levels, when you get enough heroic gear to aim for the 14.8k breakpoint with everlasting affliction, you naturally result in having enough haste to get 2 imps in the delay between the cd and dark soul, the net result being PRACTICALLY NO LOSS IN IMPS.

/Maths.

Tried to make that as little wall-of-text-ish as possible . Hope you understand my logic now, if you guys still have questions about what all that crap means feel free to ask.

Edited April 23, 2013 by gahddo

[gahhda 95]

Zagam, I was delaying Imp Swarm a little(like 15 secs max) if I don't have Tempus Repit up when it comes off cooldown, it is even more risky but I think there is a lot to gain also. PFF I HATE RNG.

Gahddo, my Imp Swarm cd is 87 seconds with raid haste + my own haste, 67 seconds with Tempus Repit. In both situations, there is no logical way to make Imp Swarm line up with Dark Soul. In first case I have to delay 3rd Imp Swarm 54 seconds or 2nd Imp Swarm 33 seconds and in second case I need to delay Dark Soul 14 seconds for 3rd Imp Swarm. Having more imps with or without Imp Swarm is why I play with 13k haste. To line up both, sometimes I delay Imp Swarm 15-20 seconds but never delay Dark Soul. If there is an optimal way to solve this situation, I would love to hear.

Also I'm having trouble with Demo+goSac opener. If Perfect Aim procs, I go meta, 2x Doom, 1x ToC and leave then I pool fury until Corruption runs out and use Hand of Guldan charged without going into meta in that period. But if Perfect Aim doesn't proc, I find myself spamming Shadow Bolts until I have enough fury for 10 seconds, then use HoG charges and go into Meta. If I'm unlucky at start, I can't do any damage and its pretty annoying.

I actually prefer the latter opener. If it procs anytime after ~7 seconds into the fight, I'm golden. The problem is when it pops RIGHT ON PULL and you're forced into meta immediately with little to no demonic fury. It only takes ~5 seconds to get enough DF to sustain ToC spam for dark souls duration if you run glyph of wild imps. So, Its actually nice for me when it procs at the 7+ mark so I have all my cds rolling and I'm already in meta.

[Omaric 246]

If the DPS loss is minimal, why not always go with Imp Swarm to make the opener easier? You generate more DF and they're all buffed by DS and your plethora of temporary buffs, including potion.