5.4 Demonology Tips and Quirks

[Calenthaurin 1]

Well, guess you're right on Council, especially with the unerring vision, indeed.

thks for the reminder (pretty rough one but still a reminder )

As for simc, I used it pre-mop... And then I stopped using it simply because I'm not that good coding stuff. Maybe "I don't trust" should have been "I don't trust it when I'm doing it"

Edited April 29, 2013 by Calenthaurin

[Vestion 8]

Just had a look at some things, im thinking with the 2 set bonus it would be better to use chaos wave during DS. While chaos wave only does slightly more damage than HoG and then another stacked with meta buff, chaos wave will give you molten core procs, which you should be using during DS.

So, im thinking it would be better to, when DS comes off CD, wait until HoG has two charges (or almost two, doesn't matter too much if you're going to be refreshing corruption with ToC first) pop CDs, use both chaos waves, spend the rest of DF on soulfire and ToC. Sound good?

Edit: Dont use it as an opener - just learnt that the hard way xD

Edited April 29, 2013 by Vestion

[Zagam 1,982]

You're never going to see better use of Hand of Guldan charges than the Shadowflame DoT from Hand of Guldan, not the burst damage of Chaos Wave. I'm not sure about you, but I'm almost always swimming in Molten Core charges as is. In any type of situation that demands AoE, Shadowflame will be a HUGE component, especially when properly timed with Metamorphosis.

[Vestion 8]

To be honest im not sure I understand what you mean by that. I understand that a lot of the time you may have enough procs, but even then chaos wave deals more damage and with the 2 set bonus won't make a huge dent in your DF.

[Zagam 1,982]

Are you talking about single target? If you think you're getting more damage out of Chaos Wave than properly used Hand of Guldan (5 seconds of 1 stack, 6 seconds of Metamorphosis-empowered 2 stack), I think the math may be coming out wrong. Hand of Guldan also does not consume Demonic Fury while Chaos Wave consumes quite a bit. Now we're talking about Demonic Fury cost and damage per point. If Chaos Wave and Hand of Guldan use the same charge system and generate similar amounts of damage, you'd want to go with what GENERATES Demonic Fury, not what CONSUMES it. With Hand of Guldan + Shadowflame, you're getting damage, a DoT that procs Molten Core, and a lot of Demonic Fury generation. With the Demonic Fury cost of Chaos Wave, you'd be bypassing 3 Void Rays in AoE, 3 Soulfires, or 5/6 uses of Touch of Chaos.

[Vestion 8]

While yes, HoG generates DF, I find that 2/tick isnt that much. And like I said, with the 2 set bonus chaos wave isnt going to consume that much DF, and if we're using imp swarm and service to go with the bonus, DF shouldn't be a problem.

Also you might be right about math coming out wrong, this was just something I thought up just now, I will check it again.

[Vestion 8]

Soulfire in meta with sac without DS. Would that make soulfire in meta good enough to do?

[Omaric 246]

In a few cases I believe:

1. You have 1+ other decent procs running at the time. (Namely a Wush towards the end, huge SF numbers)

2. You have a 100% crit Corruption up and DF to shed

3. Your current DF generation is abundant through imps

4. Boss is almost dead and you have DF to shed

Edited April 29, 2013 by Omaric

[litex2x 0]

Awesome guide! I'm new to demo and have been following it as my primary source.

I'm having trouble with the unerring vision opener. Perfect aim seems to almost never go off in time for doom. Is this typical? Also when I get to the part where I need to cast 2 shadows bolts before HoG comes off cd, my timing seems to be off because it has 4 seconds left on cd by the time I get the two casts off. On the initial HoGx2 is it implied that I should to be doing HoG SB/SFx2 HoG to maximize damage on shadowflame? I've been casting it as fast possible only for the opener and I think this is my problem but I'm just not sure.

I noticed you say GoSac is better with unerring vision. Does this apply for all fights or is service better for aoe fights like lei shen or horridon

Edited April 30, 2013 by litex2x

[vladMTL 1]

how much u guys pull @ twins nowadays ? I've noticed for some reason @ that boss i'm always doing the worst damage from them all ... never figured out why regardless if i play aff or destro ...

[Vestion 8]

Awesome guide! I'm new to demo and have been following it as my primary source.

I'm having trouble with the unerring vision opener. Perfect aim seems to almost never go off in time for doom. Is this typical? Also when I get to the part where I need to cast 2 shadows bolts before HoG comes off cd, my timing seems to be off because it has 4 seconds left on cd by the time I get the two casts off. On the initial HoGx2 is it implied that I should to be doing HoG SB/SFx2 HoG to maximize damage on shadowflame? I've been casting it as fast possible only for the opener and I think this is my problem but I'm just not sure.

I noticed you say GoSac is better with unerring vision. Does this apply for all fights or is service better for aoe fights like lei shen or horridon

Hey, have you checked this video out?

Great guide on opener for that trinket.

[Zagam 1,982]

Yeah I've seen upwards of 500-550k when the stars align. I think his numbers are based a bit more on some better gear as well as Stormlash, Bloodlust, Doomguard, and all that jazz. His opener differs from mine slightly, but I'd go with his if you're just learning. I tend to stick to my guns. As for Twins, it's largely a single target fight until P3 when you can do some basic 2 target cleaving where you put Doom and Corruption on your non-kill target and focus down your priority target. I think I did 170k this past week...let me dig the log...

http://worldoflogs.c.../?s=2153&e=2563

As for Lei Shen not proccing at the beginning, you really can't count on that unless you've been out of combat for 5 minutes. At that point, the chance for your trinket to proc is multiplied by 6. This is why I highly recommend not participating in the last trash bunch if you want to open up on the boss with this trinket.

[Vestion 8]

Is you opener whats in this guide or something different then? I have been looking into a few different openers, but seeing as I dont have the lei shen trinket yet im just sticking to normal corruption + HoG stuff with CDs between charges + pop into meta and get 250k burst. Ofc im hoping this will work much better when I do have the trinket.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Vestion

[Zagam 1,982]

I put my opener in the first post...looking at it now without actually using it, it looks suboptimal. I need to revise it. I'll work on that before raid tonight.

[Vestion 8]

Awesome, will be sure to look it up. Also I was meaning to ask, why is sac better at ilev 520+? I have been wondering a lot of things about sac, as people can probably see from my posts here xD I think it can be great, but I cant get over the loss of extra DF during CDs you get my service.

[Zagam 1,982]

Grim of Sacrifice is too damn generous, IMO, for Demonology. It buffs Shadowbolt, Hand of Guldan, Shadowflame, Soulfire, Touch of Chaos, and, most importantly, your Wild Imps by 30%. The way Demonology was designed was to have SOME extra Imps with Doom crits. Unerring Vision allows for guaranteed extra Imps which means that you're breaking past the intended model of Demonology. The extra 'proc' being buffed by 30% is just incredibly awesome. Wild Imps should, and will be, your top damage source.

[Vestion 8]

Makes sense, was kind of the idea i had, but like i said, less DF generation not only in burst but overall. I suppose the insane damage makes up for it though. still though, why only for ilev 520+? And if i have the lei shen trinket sub 520, im assuming i should use t anyway?

[obleak 10]

So if I can get lfr version it'll be way better then my 522 trink drops for demo .. gosh do I want this trinket to really play demo :(

[Zagam 1,982]

Makes sense, was kind of the idea i had, but like i said, less DF generation not only in burst but overall. I suppose the insane damage makes up for it though. still though, why only for ilev 520+? And if i have the lei shen trinket sub 520, im assuming i should use t anyway?

Wild Imps also generate Demonic Fury. In fact, I usually have higher Demonic Fury generation with Grim of Sac and 100% Crit Doom up than with Grim of Service. There have been times I was spamming Soulfire in Metamorphosis on Council and unable to use any Demonic Fury because I had 20+ Imps out. For single target, it'll depend on how fast your Doom is ticking, but you're going to have 8-9 Imps out on average without Imp Swarm. With Imp Swarm, you're going to have 10-15 out for a brief period of time and 4-5 out the rest of the time. Regardless, you needn't worry about your DF generation with Grim of Sac.

[Sifon 25]

I'm testing getting 8kish haste breakpoints and rest into mastery nowadays. Yesterday on Durumu everything went almost perfect and I got ranked 5th http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ag6bzuv6y0j6a2s6/sum/damageDone/?s=9769&e=10091. We wiped twice on durumu but that attempts were beyond the awful. I haven't got any Perfect Aim procs like first 2-3 mins and it happened twice in a row so it made me think that if stacking haste is neccessary for this build.

[Vestion 8]

Is it possible to get imp swarm to line up with DS (roughly) once per fight? So, at the start of fight you get imp swarm with hero (+ talisman and lifeblood for me), but then if you have enough haste could you use it again without delaying DS too much?

[Zagam 1,982]

I find it funny none of the other Warlocks in your group are going 'man, you're crushing us by over 20k DPS...shouldn't we switch to Demo to be competitive?'

As for those pesky Perfect Aim procs, nothing more annoying than it not proccing in the beginning. I know it's not guaranteed, but out of 30 Heroic Meg attempts, 27 of them had procs at the beginning. On the 3 that it didn't happen, my DPS was mega nerfed. I love Demonology, but tying its DPS to trinkets that do THAT much are beyond absurd. My favorite proc was literally as one head died, so it lasted only until just before the other head popped up thus effectively wasting the only proc I got in 3 minutes and 15 seconds. RNG is a fickle beast.

[Omaric 246]

Well isn't Demonology only truly effective once you get Unerring? He's the only warlock in that raid with the trinket. Or am I wrong? Could I be pumping out more DPS as Demo right meow? I only have Shado-Pan and Wush.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Omaric

[Vestion 8]

I wouldnt say its only effective when you get the trinket. It just becomes amazing when you get that trinket. Right now, im playing demo without the trinket and getting more dps than I would destro. Then again, that could be down to just being better at one spec than the other, but as far as im concerned, demo is great with or without the trinket.

[Zagam 1,982]

Well yeah, that's true. I have to quit taking that damn trinket for granted. Still funny how OP it is.