5.4 Demonology Tips and Quirks

[Zagam 1,982]

Tested only on dummy...going into raid now.

[Zagam 1,982]

Scratch that, Doom is fine.

[Zagam 1,982]

#1 US Heroic Megaera Demonology...booya

[Zagam 1,982]

Cast Spell Haste Thresholds

This is a look at what Demonology's HARD Haste cap is. This is the amount of Haste required to get spell casts down to 1.000 seconds.

Shadow Bolt

No Haste buffs: unobtainable

+5% Haste: unobtainable

+Bloodlust: unobtainable

+Tempus Repit: 40.84% Haste = 17,357 Haste Rating

+Berserking: 17.4% Haste = 7,395 Haste Rating

Soul Fire

No Haste buffs: unobtainable

+5% Haste: unobtainable

+Bloodlust: unobtainable

+Tempus Repit: unobtainable

+Berserking: unobtainable

Soul Fire (Molten Core)

No Haste buffs: unobtainable

+5% Haste: unobtainable

+Bloodlust: 46.5% Haste = 19,763 Haste Rating

+Tempus Repit: 12.6% Haste = 5,355 Haste Rating

+Berserking: 0% Haste = 0 Haste Rating

*Wild Imps*

Imp Swarm is an interesting Glyph in that it alters the CD based on Haste Rating. Here, we can see some various CDs along with how long the base CD on Demonic Calling is.

Wild Imps should be summoned when all of your Haste procs are live in the opener. These procs will be +5% Haste + Bloodlust + Tempus Repit. If you are a Troll, using Berserking will have an even greater effect. Note the following Imp Swarm CDs with these procs live:

+5% Raid Haste + Bloodlust + Tempus Repit = 77.5% Haste

0% Haste = 67.6 sec

10% Haste = 61.5 sec

20% Haste = 56.3 sec

30% Haste = 52.0 sec

40% Haste = 48.3 sec

50% Haste = 45.1 sec

(Troll) +5% Raid Haste + Bloodlust + Tempus Repit + Berserking = 112.9% Haste

0% Haste = 56.4 sec

10% Haste = 51.2 sec

20% Haste = 47.0 sec

30% Haste = 43.4 sec

40% Haste = 40.3 sec

50% Haste = 37.6 sec

Remember, Demonic Calling's base CD is 20 seconds. This value can be reduced by Haste as well. The synergy of these two effects has some importance tied into Haste. Demonic Calling remains on CD while Imp Swarm is on CD and using the Glyph of Imp Swarm adds a 4 sec CD to Demonic Calling, so we're looking at 24 sec baseline if using the Glyph. Here are the two scenarios, glyph and no glyph:

NO GLYPH OF IMP SWARM (assuming only 5% Raid Haste for Imp proc rate)

0% Haste = 19.1 sec

10% Haste = 17.3 sec

20% Haste = 15.9 sec

30% Haste = 14.6 sec

40% Haste = 13.6 sec

50% Haste = 12.7 sec

Looking at 30% Haste, we see a 14.6 sec CD on Demonic Calling which translates ROUGHLY to 4 Imps per minute. If we look at it on a 2 minute baseline, we'd see roughly 8 Imps proc in 2 minutes. This number would vary as Tempus Repit and Bloodlust were applied, but to keep things simple, let's just assume none of that applies. If not using the glyph, there is no Haste threshold for Imps. More Haste = more Imps, plain and simple.

WITH GLYPH OF IMP SWARM (assuming only 5% Raid Haste for Imp proc rate)

0% Haste = 22.8 sec

10% Haste = 20.8 sec

20% Haste = 19.0 sec

30% Haste = 17.6 sec

40% Haste = 16.3 sec

50% Haste = 15.2 sec

These values tie into the CD of Imp Swarm when used. The opening Imp Swarm will have a greatly decreased CD because you'll have all of your procs running live. The following values assume that you are popping Imp Swarm with Dark Soul and letting Imp Swarm be available but not used until Dark Soul comes off CD (120 sec).

0% Haste: Imp Swarm CD = 114 sec, Demonic Calling CD = 22.8 sec = 6 Imps per 2 minutes

*This would mean Imp Swarm would come off CD 114 sec in and Demonic Calling would proc an additional Imp. 6 seconds later, Dark Soul would be available, so you'd apply Dark Soul and pop Imp Swarm imposing an additional 114 sec CD on Imp Swarm. What we try to find here is the thresholds of maximum Imps proc'd between Imp Swarm uses.*

10% Haste: Imp Swarm CD = 103.9 sec, Demonic Calling CD = 20.8 sec = 6 Imps per 2 minutes (next Imp would be at 125.7 sec meaning you'd have to delay DS/Imp Swarm for 5.7 sec)

20% Haste: Imp Swarm CD = 95.2 sec, Demonic Calling CD = 20.8 sec = 7 Imps per 2 minutes (next Imp would be at 136.8 sec meaning you'd have to delay DS/Imp Swarm for 16.8 sec)

30% Haste: Imp Swarm CD = 87.9 sec, Demonic Calling CD = 17.6 sec = 7 Imps per 2 minutes (next Imp would be at 123.1 sec meaning you'd have to delay DS/Imp Swarm for 3.1 sec)

40% Haste: Imp Swarm CD = 81.6 sec, Demonic Calling CD = 16.3 sec = 8 Imps per 2 minutes (next Imp would be at 130.5 sec meaning you'd have to delay DS/Imp Swarm for 10.5 sec)

50% Haste: Imp Swarm CD = 76.2 sec, Demonic Calling CD = 15.2 sec = 8 Imps per 2 minutes (next Imp would be at 121.8 sec meaning you'd have to delay DS/Imp Swarm for 1.8 sec)

Remember, this is worst case scenario (no Bloodlust used, no Tempus Repit procs) so you'll likely see higher Imp rates than what is listed here. However, the value we want to see is at what Haste % you JUST get another Demonic Calling proc and Dark Soul and Imp Swarm come off CD. You can see that value lies somewhere between 10% and 20% and another between 30% and 40%. Those values are:

14.29% Haste: Imp Swarm CD = 100.0 sec, Demonic Calling CD = 20.0 sec = 7 Imps per 2 minutes

33.40% Haste: Imp Swarm CD = 85.7 sec, Demonic Calling CD = 17.1 sec = 8 Imps per 2 minutes

14.29% Haste = 6,074 Haste Rating

33.40% Haste = 14,195 Haste Rating

These thresholds are not meant to be aimed for when reforging and gemming. This is just a value that shows how many additional Imps you would get if you didn't use Bloodlust or have 0 Tempus Repit procs. The actual required Haste Rating will be much lower because of temporary procs.

^^This was put on the first post of the guide. Let me know if something doesn't make sense or you see errors in the math.

[Dragoras 0]

Afternoon everyone. Long time reader first time posting. I just have a quick question. I just got the lei shen trinket (extremely excited to go DEMO now) but Im a little confused. I have the everlasting glyph and I know its important in the opener to apply doom twice when unerring procs. However am I suppose to now let doom run out or apply it each time it procs over and over?

[Omaric 246]

Afternoon everyone. Long time reader first time posting. I just have a quick question. I just got the lei shen trinket (extremely excited to go DEMO now) but Im a little confused. I have the everlasting glyph and I know its important in the opener to apply doom twice when unerring procs. However am I suppose to now let doom run out or apply it each time it procs over and over?

Always reapply. The purpose of the glyph is to give you enough breathing room to ensure another proc before Doom expires. On a fight like Council I recommend casting only 1 Doom per boss at the start. As an example in a 2 boss fight, two 1x crit Doom durations is better than a single 1.5x Doom duration.

[Dragoras 0]

Always reapply. The purpose of the glyph is to give you enough breathing room to ensure another proc before Doom expires. On a fight like Council I recommend casting only 1 Doom per boss at the start. As an example in a 2 boss fight, two 1x crit Doom durations is better than a single 1.5x Doom duration.

Cool Ty I appreciate it. Now if i can just get my metagem hopefully that helps as well. Back to practice I go

[Dragoras 0]

So being blood lust meta gem etc reduce CD on wild imps do you cast them on CD or always line them up with dark soul

[Omaric 246]

So being blood lust meta gem etc reduce CD on wild imps do you cast them on CD or always line them up with dark soul

On pull use imps with haste procs going so that you can start spawning imps sooner with the passive. The goal is to always use it with Dark Soul though, so even if it's off CD 30 seconds before Dark Soul, hold onto it until then.

[gahhda 95]

That was an extremely complicated way of explaining what I already explained like 15 pages ago zagam :D.

20% buffed = 1st

40% buffed = 2nd

60% buffed = 3rd

Every 20%.

1.2 / 1.05 = 1.1428571428571428571428571428571

1.4 / 1.05 = 1.3333333333333333333333333333333

[Zagam 1,982]

I like numbers.

[Sifon 25]

Zagam, I saw you are back to Orc again, do you feel any slower on your Demonology opener? Since I'm Goblin my UVoLS always procs late, I generate less fury and ended up not using Soul Fire in opener at all. We have almost the same haste and we both lack Berserking, if its like that I would go back to Troll but I don't wanna pay another 20€, I will just drop Demo in that case.

[Glorn 1]

Maybe I'll turn into captain obvious,but I haven't seen a post about that here.Do you know that if u don't release,stay in the instance,get ressed,UVoLS has almost 100% chance to proc on pull?Well other lock from my guild told me that and it works.

Sifon why would u feel slower on Demonology opener as Orc?I mean my UVoLS procs almost instantly,I use pot+DS+Blood Fury+Corr+HoG twice instantly and at the time when first HoG lands UVoLS procs and im going into meta instantly,put doom,cast some ToC/Soulfire and go back to caster form,generate some fury and go back to Meta usually for last 5-6secs of DS.

Did 250k on our first kill of Council hc yesterday,I had over 90mln dmg done and the next top dpser had 60ish - fun fight for Demo no doubt.But no one logged...

Edited May 24, 2013 by Glorn

[Sifon 25]

That's the problem, mine doesn't instantly proc, I start with Service, HoG, Corr, DS-ImpSwarm, 2nd HoG and it should have been popped by now but no, I go in meta put one normal Doom just in case, use 3-4 ToC and it procs.

[Zagam 1,982]

Zagam, I saw you are back to Orc again, do you feel any slower on your Demonology opener? Since I'm Goblin my UVoLS always procs late, I generate less fury and ended up not using Soul Fire in opener at all. We have almost the same haste and we both lack Berserking, if its like that I would go back to Troll but I don't wanna pay another 20€, I will just drop Demo in that case.

I went back Orc because my Warlock is an Orc. He just cross dressed as a Troll for progression since just being a Troll meant 5% extra damage on a lot of bosses. Since I'm back to Orc, I haven't noticed a drastic change in the speed of my opening. Remember, Berserking only lasts for 10 seconds, so it's useful for Wild Imps, Doom, and 3 or 4 hard casts. As a Goblin, you get a static 1% Haste buff all the time and the extremely undervalued Rocket Jump. As an Orc, I get stunned for 15% less time and my pets do 2% more damage. I'm an Orc mostly because that's how he was rolled and his over-sized shoulders look baller.

Maybe I'll turn into captain obvious,but I haven't seen a post about that here.Do you know that if u don't release,stay in the instance,get ressed,UVoLS has almost 100% chance to proc on pull?Well other lock from my guild told me that and it works.

Sifon why would u feel slower on Demonology opener as Orc?I mean my UVoLS procs almost instantly,I use pot+DS+Blood Fury+Corr+HoG twice instantly and at the time when first HoG lands UVoLS procs and im going into meta instantly,put doom,cast some ToC/Soulfire and go back to caster form,generate some fury and go back to Meta usually for last 5-6secs of DS.

Did 250k on our first kill of Council hc yesterday,I had over 90mln dmg done and the next top dpser had 60ish - fun fight for Demo no doubt.But no one logged...

You're playing with a big mistake in dropping out of Metamorphosis to generate fury during Dark Soul. This is a HUGE loss. I was running into this issue where there seemed to be a bit of RNG in whether I got to stay in Metamorphosis the full duration of Dark Soul. As much as the 4pc is not appreciated, I appreciate the extra generation that guarantees me to stay in Meta for duration of Dark Soul. This still doesn't let me throw out Soul Fires in the beginning, but at least you're not wasting Dark Soul in caster form. Interesting note on the ULVS proc if you don't release...I'll check it out during next week's continued Heroic Dark Animus onslaught.

That's the problem, mine doesn't instantly proc, I start with Service, HoG, Corr, DS-ImpSwarm, 2nd HoG and it should have been popped by now but no, I go in meta put one normal Doom just in case, use 3-4 ToC and it procs.

I dropped Service because with the nerf to Sacrifice, Sac and Service are really close and Service and Supremacy are really close, so they're really all close. What I've run into is just like you have...where sometimes it doesn't proc at the beginning. Not a lot you can do other than cry inside at how bad your DPS swing will be. If I get a proc on that first spell land, I double cast Doom and do my best to stay in Meta. If it DOESN'T proc, then I cast Doom once and spam ToC and hope that it procs before Dark Soul wears off. Demonology is, and always will be, the king of RNG. Too bad this tier it's because of a trinket.

[Glorn 1]

You're playing with a big mistake in dropping out of Metamorphosis to generate fury during Dark Soul. This is a HUGE loss. I was running into this issue where there seemed to be a bit of RNG in whether I got to stay in Metamorphosis the full duration of Dark Soul. As much as the 4pc is not appreciated, I appreciate the extra generation that guarantees me to stay in Meta for duration of Dark Soul. This still doesn't let me throw out Soul Fires in the beginning, but at least you're not wasting Dark Soul in caster form. Interesting note on the ULVS proc if you don't release...I'll check it out during next week's continued Heroic Dark Animus onslaught.

Well on Council hc you have no other option,there is rather small chance I'll have enough Fury to cast 4xDoom and then use ToC/Soulfire for the entire duration of DS.Yesterday I was playing for the first time with T15 4pc,so I don't know exactly how much it'll help during opener.On other fights I sometimes ran out of fury when DS is almost gone - when playing with 2pc t15(talking about a situation at pull)

Edited May 24, 2013 by Glorn

[gahhda 95]

Well on Council hc you have no other option,there is rather small chance I'll have enough Fury to cast 4xDoom and then use ToC/Soulfire for the entire duration of DS.Yesterday I was playing for the first time with T15 4pc,so I don't know exactly how much it'll help during opener.On other fights I sometimes ran out of fury when DS is almost gone - when playing with 2pc t15(talking about a situation at pull)

HC council is a special situation. Getting off as many snapshotted dooms as possible is absolutely 10x more important than the damage lost in the opener.

[Dragoras 0]

so with GoSac down to 25% will i see a big difference between choose GoServ on single target fights instead of choosing GoSac?

[gahhda 95]

so with GoSac down to 25% will i see a big difference between choose GoServ on single target fights instead of choosing GoSac?

They're dead even. When you have good unerring rng, sac will be a ton better. When you have bad unerring rng, sac will be worse.

Service/Supremacy are the RNG-proof choices.

On any fight where you can doom multiple targets (h council/h dark animus etc), gosac will be ahead.

[Darthsoul 3]

Ok im trying to switch from destroy to demo as I've recently acquired UVoLS lfr trinket. When I use the opener as stated in the guide I'm running out of DF very quickly once I switch back to meta. I'm sitting at about 520 ilvl with cha ye's as my other trinket. Just to make sure I'm doing it right this is the rotation I am using. Pot>Engineering>DS>Corruption>HoGx2>Meta>Doomx2>ToC>Out of Meta> Imp Swarm>Shadowboltx2>Meta>SF until out of DF

[Jenaye 9]

you can squeeze a shadowbolt inbetween the initial HoGs, and you can toss out another HoG after you drop out the first time, and after the 2 shadowbolts.

[lockscifer 0]

hello, thank you for the tips here on the site, helped me a lot, even more that I am not a big wow player, but I need to give an optimized because I'm raiding.

first i am not having any luck to get the trinket law shen, as I am depending only on LFR is harder still.

I'm a little lost right now, I have the new legendary meta gem but not the trinket, and I'm using Glyph of Everlasting Affliction

I made some reforges to see how much mastery i will have when i up haste to reach some point.

with that said, i dont know if this glyph worth having, because I'm thinking of cutting my haste in half to climb mastery along with intel (I have sacrificed intel to up my haste), but dont know if I can send all that haste to mastery/intel and ignore crit for now, or somehow climb crit with mastery somehow.

I'm not asking for exact numbers, but a hint of a way to go.

this is my char:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/azralon/Lockscifer/advanced

You will see that I did not do many raids, my current core is a little late. What I did in ToT is pug, tonight I will continue with the pug from yesterday and try Megaera.

and sorry for the text, google translantion

[gahhda 95]

hello, thank you for the tips here on the site, helped me a lot, even more that I am not a big wow player, but I need to give an optimized because I'm raiding.

first i am not having any luck to get the trinket law shen, as I am depending only on LFR is harder still.

I'm a little lost right now, I have the new legendary meta gem but not the trinket, and I'm using Glyph of Everlasting Affliction

I made some reforges to see how much mastery i will have when i up haste to reach some point.

with that said, i dont know if this glyph worth having, because I'm thinking of cutting my haste in half to climb mastery along with intel (I have sacrificed intel to up my haste), but dont know if I can send all that haste to mastery/intel and ignore crit for now, or somehow climb crit with mastery somehow.

I'm not asking for exact numbers, but a hint of a way to go.

this is my char:

http://us.battle.net...scifer/advanced

You will see that I did not do many raids, my current core is a little late. What I did in ToT is pug, tonight I will continue with the pug from yesterday and try Megaera.

and sorry for the text, google translantion

The only reason everlasting affliction is a gain is unerring vision of lei shen. Without the trinket, it is a dps loss, period.

[jtta073 1]

Not sure since when, but just noticed that Corruption gets properly refreshed to 40s when using Touch of Chaos and GoEA now.

[JvChequer 43]

Not sure since when, but just noticed that Corruption gets properly refreshed to 40s when using Touch of Chaos and GoEA now.

Yes, fixed couple days ago.

Now it's REALLY hard let Corruption down.