5.4 Demonology Tips and Quirks

[JvChequer 43]

Not sure if I should focus 8100 haste > Mastery or 14873 haste > Mastery

Looks like the 14873 one will let my Single target dmg way better than the 8100 one, but probably I'll lose a lot of burst and AOE dmg.

What do u guys think?

Right now I'm at 15600 haste and 5400 mastery playing affliction, but bored playing the same spec for 7 months.

So I'll probably go for Demo as my default spec and Destro in Primordius, Tortos and Horridon.

[Zagam 1,982]

I can't make the 14.8k threshold. I'm at 14.1k right now and need 1-2 more upgrades to hit the threshold for another Doom and Shadowflame tick. The only time I think burst AoE is needed is on Heroic Lei Shen and MAYBE Tortos if your group doesn't have solid AoE. Other than that, you should focus single target.

[Waramaur 1]

I was curious if there is a gear progression that makes Demon better than Destro or Affliction? Meaning, for instance, a lot of what I've read states that you should stay Arms when playing a Warrior until you get over 500 or 505 ilvl, then Fury comes out on top.

Or is destro and Demo that close, that it is a matter of skill and timing?

[Omaric 246]

They're pretty close, but it also really depends on the fight. Where Demonology and Affliction can dominate Council, Destruction rules Primordius. All of them are pretty viable right now, whereas Arms has almost always been a sad state in the PvE scene.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Omaric

[Vestion 8]

So, turns out I REALLY underestimated that dark animus trinket. Dropped last night and no one else needed it. To be honest I was kind of annoyed that was the trinket that had to drop and not the lei shen one for weeks on end, and ofc I was repulsed by the crit that trinket gave. However, after reforging that to mastery and giving it a go on the next boss, turns out its actually a really nice dps boost, even more so for my now 300k burst at the start. Of course, most people already know this, and breath and wush are still much better, but just saying don't think as badly of it like I did just because it gives crit and its only 10 secs.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Vestion

[Zagam 1,982]

The Crit devalues it for Warlocks. I know the Boomkin and Mage in my group have been dying for it. The 10 second duration is rather dull for Demonology because when it procs, it'll fade before Dark Soul or Metamorphosis does. It has half the duration but twice the proc rate of Breath. It's a trade off....great if you're lucky, bad if you're not. It's still the worst trinket out of the new ones for Demonology.

[Vestion 8]

I know, thats what I was saying, but even so im just saying its still a large dps boost to replace something like RF trinket or the shado-pan one.

[Cruzan 71]

Hey Zagam,

Have you or gahhdo figured out if it is worth it to override a crit-doom at a certain point when not running sac? I run in to situations, not too uncommon either, where I'll get a PA proc in the middle of nowhere so i've got a puny Doom/s rolling, but I'f I'm not specced Sac/Glyph of EA should I put more stock in to overwriting a crit-doom for a super empowered, noncrit-Doom? Or does the power of getting more imps + critting still outweigh extra damage from Doom?

[Zagam 1,982]

Never override Crit Doom. Doom's biggest tick is going to be like 250k with all procs rolling. You're not doing it for the damage (hence the Glyph of Everlasting Affliction). You're doing it for the procs. The Imp generated = Demonic Fury + damage + higher Metamorphosis uptime.

[Cruzan 71]

Hmm okay. I definitely forgot about the extra DF gen from the imps. Its tough to watch a 150+ Affdots number go by so I figured I'd ask.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Cruzan

[Zagam 1,982]

Want to know what's tougher? Being 30 seconds into the fight and seeing your Doom Affdots number say 19 and you get a proc and it only goes up to 23. Because of the horrid RNG possible with the trinket, sometimes I override the 5x more powerful Doom just to extend the duration of the guaranteed crit period. I lose a bit of my soul every time I do it, but RNG is a fickle little lady.

[Omaric 246]

Want to know what's tougher? Being 30 seconds into the fight and seeing your Doom Affdots number say 19 and you get a proc and it only goes up to 23. Because of the horrid RNG possible with the trinket, sometimes I override the 5x more powerful Doom just to extend the duration of the guaranteed crit period. I lose a bit of my soul every time I do it, but RNG is a fickle little lady.

LOL! Yes, pretty much. Also, look at my bracers. Spirit is good right?

[Cruzan 71]

Want to know what's tougher? Being 30 seconds into the fight and seeing your Doom Affdots number say 19 and you get a proc and it only goes up to 23. Because of the horrid RNG possible with the trinket, sometimes I override the 5x more powerful Doom just to extend the duration of the guaranteed crit period. I lose a bit of my soul every time I do it, but RNG is a fickle little lady.

That was actually my next question haha

[rsabin 0]

Hello guys. A very simple question(s).

I am doing Heroic Lei Shen with my guild and we need a good burst of dps in phase 1 and 2.

Currently Im running Affliction with 13181 haste / 7853 mastery (for extra ticks).

I DO NOT have the UVoLS trink.

The question envolves around if it's worth changing to Demon, manly because of AoE burst needed in phase 2 and 3 (lighintg balls). Its been asked for my guild colleagues.

Should I use the Imp Swarm Glyph?

And about Everlasting Affliction Glyph?

The lack of Doom crits will hold me back?

Whats is the best relation beetwen my actual haste-mastery ratings?

Its been a long time that I dont play demon (since Cata)... Im a bit nervous.

Thanks in advance!

(Brazilian lock who dont speak english)

Edited June 6, 2013 by rsabin

[Zagam 1,982]

If you don't have UVoLS, don't go Demonology. Take Shadowfury and stun the adds and then spam Seed of Corruption. Rely on your teammates to finish these adds off.

If you decide to go Demonology without UVoLS, then...

Yes, take Glyph of Imp Swarm. Always line it up with Dark Soul and use it with Haste procs.

No, do not take Glyph of Everlasting Affliction. This is only a DPS gain when you have UVoLS.

Your DPS won't be as good as with the trinket. The trinket is mind-blowingly good for Demonology, so naturally, without it, you're not that great.

[Cruzan 71]

The AoE burst will be just as strong for Demo without UVLS, but ya, your overall damage will be lacking. If it gets you guys the kill though that's all that matters! I haven't the slightest clue what changes for H Lei Shen. Only killed it on normal so take what I say with a grain of salt.

If you are looking for a spec that you can pick up and play that has high burst and good overall damage though without UVLS I'd say go Destro for that fight. Relatively simple spec with easy on-demand AoE. As far as I can tell it performs pretty well. Demo has so many things going on with its playstyle that it would be my last choice for trying out for the first time in a raid, let alone H Lei Shen. If you're okay with trying it out then good luck!

Side Note: Affliction's burst is still pretty good as long as the adds are getting grouped up (and you have a couple of shards to burn), especially now that we can spam SoC on one target, instead of tab-targeting, and it will pop before the next one lands. With loose add-stacking you might run in to problem and need to tab-target, but that depends on your raid.

As for stats for Demonology if you decide to go that route...I'm not entirely sure to be honest what the priority would be without the UVLS trinket. If you're focusing purely on being a beast during AoE then getting to the 8064 Haste point and stacking Mastery past there would be my first guess. I'll let someone else take the reins there though . I'm not sure if there's any value in continuing to stack haste to fish for lucky RPPM procs during an AoE period or focusing on being consistent during AoE. Supremacy Felstorm + Cleave, Double HoG, Immo Aura and Void Ray with maybe a Glyphed Carrion Swarm should make your raid leader happy though, but still relies on good stacking.

Good Luck and hopefully that isn't too hard to read to a non-english speaker, but my Portuguese isn't very good hehe.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Cruzan

[Spaztom 0]

Considering going demo and this guide is really really good. Thanks so much Zagam. One question in regards to this:

The proper way to execute Hand of Guldan is to cast it once and cast it again approximately 5 seconds later. What this will do is allow you to have Shadowflame ticking for 5 of its 6 second duration. When the 2nd HoG hits, Shadowflame will become a 2 stack of Shadowflame for the next 6 seconds giving you an 11 second duration. Strive to maintain at least 30% Shadowflame uptime while pushing towards 40% (theoretical maximum) is ideal. The way you'll do this is you will use Hand of Guldan and then cast two other spells, either two Shadowbolts or two Molten Core Soulfires. As soon as the 2nd Shadowbolt or 2nd Soulfire is casted, cast your 2nd Hand of Guldan. You should have sufficient time to apply the 2nd stack with two spells cast in between. If not, consider getting enough Haste so that you can pull this off. You will not cast Hand of Guldan until 1 charge has completely regenerated and the 2nd charge has about 4 seconds left on its recharge.

I've read on other websites that you should go into meta immediately after you cast the 2nd HoG to get a meta boosted Shadowflame. You don't mention that. I'm not at home at the moment so can't test for myself if the meta boost is negligible or should be done.

Thoughts?

[Darthsoul 3]

It is mentioned several times throughout this thread I'm pretty sure it is on the main page as well but yes you do want to pop into meta after the second is cast. Sorry I'm on my mobile or I'd link it.

[Spaztom 0]

Thanks. I linked the pertinent part from the main page and didn't see it there thus the question. Again, thanks!

[Vestion 8]

Considering going demo and this guide is really really good. Thanks so much Zagam. One question in regards to this:

The proper way to execute Hand of Guldan is to cast it once and cast it again approximately 5 seconds later. What this will do is allow you to have Shadowflame ticking for 5 of its 6 second duration. When the 2nd HoG hits, Shadowflame will become a 2 stack of Shadowflame for the next 6 seconds giving you an 11 second duration. Strive to maintain at least 30% Shadowflame uptime while pushing towards 40% (theoretical maximum) is ideal. The way you'll do this is you will use Hand of Guldan and then cast two other spells, either two Shadowbolts or two Molten Core Soulfires. As soon as the 2nd Shadowbolt or 2nd Soulfire is casted, cast your 2nd Hand of Guldan. You should have sufficient time to apply the 2nd stack with two spells cast in between. If not, consider getting enough Haste so that you can pull this off. You will not cast Hand of Guldan until 1 charge has completely regenerated and the 2nd charge has about 4 seconds left on its recharge.

I've read on other websites that you should go into meta immediately after you cast the 2nd HoG to get a meta boosted Shadowflame. You don't mention that. I'm not at home at the moment so can't test for myself if the meta boost is negligible or should be done.

Thoughts?

You should definetly go into meta before the second HoG hits. Its a huge dps increase. Another thing to mention here is to pop CDs before the first HoG so when the second one stacks with the first the first will have the bonus damage from CDs as well as the second. While in meta if you are low on DF just use ToC three times and go back out or if you have a decent amount get some soulfires off. chances are after using HoG you should have a nice trinket proc, but even if you dont, using them for DF gen wont mater because you have plenty of time to get gen some more before HoG is ready again.

[Sifon 25]

While in meta if you are low on DF just use ToC three times and go back out.

This is a false advice. Most of Demo locks play with Lei-shen trinket and you are advising him to leave Meta while it has 7 seconds of cooldown left. If you don't have enough fury to sustain 10 seconds into Meta, you don't go into Meta because if Perfect Aim procs while Meta on cd, you lose tons of dps, I sometimes don't even go into Meta after my 2nd HoG because I don't have enough fury(mostly happens only once in opener).350-400 fury is safe amounts to sustain 10 seconds unless you have to multi dot Doom.

[Zagam 1,982]

4) Demonology opener and Charge management

Demonology's opener should be like this:

Curse of the Elements -> Dark Soul: Knowledge -> Corruption -> Hand of Gul'dan -> Grimoire: Felguard -> Hand of Gul'dan -> Metamorphosis -> Metamorphosis: Doom x2 -> Metamorphosis: Touch of Chaos spam until you run out of Demonic Fury then go into normal rotation. This rotation allows you to apply an empowered Doom at a 90 second duration while Touch of Chaos will have boosted your Corruption time to 20+ seconds. As long as you pop Meta before the 2nd Hand of Guldan connects, that HoG will be modified by Meta as well as the resulting Shadowflame damage.

That is found on the first post of this thread. The part that you linked was to over-explain how the HoG stacking worked. It's understood across the board that you buff Shadowflame with Metamorphosis.

Sifon is absolutely correct, but it can be modified a bit. To buff your 2nd stack of Shadowflame, go into Metamorphosis. Since you only need 1 GCD for a Perfect Aim Doom, you MUST be in Metamorphosis for at least 8 seconds. If you're low on Demonic Fury, you'll still want to buff Shadowflame (Meta typically buffs this by 70%+) and use Touch of Chaos until Metamorphosis's CD has less than 2 seconds. That way even if you cancel Meta and Perfect Aim procs right then, you'll still have 2 entire seconds to get Doom off before it kicks. You really shouldn't ever be that low on Demonic Fury unless you JUST came out of a Dark Soul burn.

[Scorp 5]

just want to bring this here

original post

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1307130-Metamorphosis-damage-bugged-when-leaving-form?p=21375037#post21375037

[Zagam 1,982]

Ya know, I couldn't figure out what was going on last night during my Heroic Lei Shen attempts. I was doing everything the same...lining my CDs up the same, casting with the same priority...but sometimes I was at 155k 2:30 into the fight and sometimes I was at 220k with no real change in procs or spells. This makes sense...hope it gets fixed real soon, because nothing is more irritating than not being able to explain why you suck some attempts and rock others.

[Omaric 246]

4) Demonology opener and Charge management

Demonology's opener should be like this:

Curse of the Elements -> Dark Soul: Knowledge -> Corruption -> Hand of Gul'dan -> Grimoire: Felguard -> Hand of Gul'dan -> Metamorphosis -> Metamorphosis: Doom x2 -> Metamorphosis: Touch of Chaos spam until you run out of Demonic Fury then go into normal rotation. This rotation allows you to apply an empowered Doom at a 90 second duration while Touch of Chaos will have boosted your Corruption time to 20+ seconds. As long as you pop Meta before the 2nd Hand of Guldan connects, that HoG will be modified by Meta as well as the resulting Shadowflame damage.

I don't know about you guys, but I start every fight with a pre-pot 2 seconds before pull and pre-cast a shadowbolt to pump out my 1st imp before diving into the rotation.