5.4 Demonology Tips and Quirks

[Zagam 1,982]

Might be an improvement. I could toy with it.

[Omaric 246]

And by 2 seconds I mean however long it takes you to cast your SB so that it's landing as the tank picks up the boss. For some reason tanks don't like it when the mob starts running toward someone else before they touch it. Coming from a raid leading tank perspective for a few years, I tend to agree. :)

[Rrasis 13]

Why isn't imp swarm in that opener? I tend to Int Pre-pot > Curse of elements > Dark Soul > Imp Swarm > corruption > HoG > Shadowbolt x2 > HoG > Metamorphisis > Doom x2 > ToC

This gives me a ton of demonic fury to play with. the only time I have to change is if I get that initial UVLS proc which is always right after i cast the first HoG so with imp swarm going I have plenty of fury to toss out the needed Doom's and a couple ToC's to top off my corruption.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Rrasis

[Zagam 1,982]

I'll have to rewrite it at some point to include that. I wrote that in 5.1 before Imp Swarm was globally accepted as a DPS gain. Pretty busy month for me, so I'm trying to stay on top of it.

[Omaric 246]

And we're busy waiting for you to not be busy. Who's the real victim here? Huh? YOU KNOW DAMN RIGHT WHO'S DA VICTIM!

[Sifon 25]

Precasting results too early Perfect Aim procs in a pull where Perfect Aim would proc at start. I always start with Prepot-Service-HoG-Corruption- DS and Imp Swarm(assuming LMG procced already)- 2nd HoG. Perfect Aim generally procs now or just before 2nd HoG, you switch to meta and 2x Doom asap, then spend your fury on mixture of ToC and SF.

[Omaric 246]

I'm happy with any PA proc at the start. :D

I like to start generating extra DF asap through the wild imp that spawns before the fight starts. That's a staple for me. I can't assume PA will always proc when I want it to.

[gahhda 95]

Ya know, I couldn't figure out what was going on last night during my Heroic Lei Shen attempts. I was doing everything the same...lining my CDs up the same, casting with the same priority...but sometimes I was at 155k 2:30 into the fight and sometimes I was at 220k with no real change in procs or spells. This makes sense...hope it gets fixed real soon, because nothing is more irritating than not being able to explain why you suck some attempts and rock others.

Trinket uptime and natural RNG. Has very little to do with this bug more than likely.

[Vestion 8]

This is a false advice. Most of Demo locks play with Lei-shen trinket and you are advising him to leave Meta while it has 7 seconds of cooldown left. If you don't have enough fury to sustain 10 seconds into Meta, you don't go into Meta because if Perfect Aim procs while Meta on cd, you lose tons of dps, I sometimes don't even go into Meta after my 2nd HoG because I don't have enough fury(mostly happens only once in opener).350-400 fury is safe amounts to sustain 10 seconds unless you have to multi dot Doom.

Well, if you have the Lei Shen trinket then yes, you're totally right. However, I am not fortunate enough to have that, so until I get it (to be honest im beginning to think i may get through this tier without getting it even from LFR) I only really know the rotation without it. So, in short, with trinket, yes thats fine, without trinket everything I said was also fine.

[Vestion 8]

I don't know about you guys, but I start every fight with a pre-pot 2 seconds before pull and pre-cast a shadowbolt to pump out my 1st imp before diving into the rotation.

I messed around with this at one point, but, for me at least, it seems that even after using imp swarm if demonic calling was up you still get the effect for that one only. If this can be confirmed, its best just to stick to normal opener.

[Omaric 246]

I messed around with this at one point, but, for me at least, it seems that even after using imp swarm if demonic calling was up you still get the effect for that one only. If this can be confirmed, its best just to stick to normal opener.

It's not about extra imps, it's about starting to generate DF from it sooner along with the extra DF from SB itself.

[Merlins 0]

Just a quick one, Seen a few posts going around that 8100 haste over the 14.8k haste one, anyone done the math, or experience on this. it's been said 14.8k haste is simming higher but not the case in practical play, and ideas?

That extra shadowflame dot looks nice, even the extra doom dot at 13153 haste looks tempting.

[Zagam 1,982]

The Doom tick you're looking at is without Everlasting Affliction. You should be glyphing that if you have UVoLS. That said, the next Haste point after 8100 for Doom is 14.8k, which is why people clamor for it. I personally prefer about 9500 Haste and 12000 Mastery, but that's just my personal playstyle.

[obleak 10]

i now have Uneering Vision Double Upgraded Thunderforged... the lock decided to pass it to me.. ((giddy)) loving it already, but still a learning curve for me with the spec.

[Caxamillion 0]

4) Demonology opener and Charge management

Demonology's opener should be like this:

Curse of the Elements -> Dark Soul: Knowledge -> Corruption -> Hand of Gul'dan -> Grimoire: Felguard -> Hand of Gul'dan -> Metamorphosis -> Metamorphosis: Doom x2 -> Metamorphosis: Touch of Chaos spam until you run out of Demonic Fury then go into normal rotation. This rotation allows you to apply an empowered Doom at a 90 second duration while Touch of Chaos will have boosted your Corruption time to 20+ seconds. As long as you pop Meta before the 2nd Hand of Guldan connects, that HoG will be modified by Meta as well as the resulting Shadowflame damage.

On the subject of the opener for Service/Demo; I've been playing about a bit recently trying to maximise the initial burst output, I'd like some feedback on the following, for my mind it provides the best burst damage opener without damaging fury too harshly. It is built about 2pt15, UVoLS and a haste build. Pre-pot -> Dark Soul: Knowledge/Grimoire: Felguard (these are sat on my DS macro; it also helps with initial fury generation -> Hand of Gul'dan -> Corruption -> Shadowbolt -> Hand of Gul'dan -> Metamorphosis -> Metamorphosis: Doom x2 -> Metamorphosis: Touch of Chaos -> Imp Swarm -> Metamorphosis: Soul Fire (repeat)

The idea behind the opener is that you not only get a rolling crit doom for the duration of meta, but you also get a rolling hasted crit corruption as well. Soul Fire with 2pt15 is maintainable for the vast majority of the initial demon soul and benefits from everything proccing. Once Demon Soul finishes you should be exiting Meta and going back into a normal rotation (roughly getting ready for the next HoG weave). Whilst you exit Demon Soul with less fury than you would with ToC spam; you basically use all procs to their best effect. Any improvements anyone can see?

If using lust and Demonguard at the pull, this should be used directly after Demon Soul and before the first Hand of Gul'dan

Edited June 13, 2013 by Caxamillion

[Merlins 0]

You don't want the imp from the start from demonic calling? precasting shadowbolt on countdown at 3?

[Thaya 1]

So I got a little question about HoG use: if I'm not planning to go meta yet (no DS, no procs, low fury - any combination of these), but have 2 stacks of HoG, what do I do? Is it ever worth using only 1 HoG? Is hopping into meta just to get a boosted 2-stack Shadowfury worth it even if I have like, 300 fury (especially considering the bug discovered a few pages back)? Or do I just let it sit there until I plan to go meta? I always have this moment of confusion just after doing a full meta burst, for example, as I have 2 stacks at this point and 0 fury. It can happen just mid fights as well, if preparing for burst phases or whatever messes with my cooldown rotations.

Sorry if this was asked before. I read OP and first few pages, and the last ~5 or so, didn't find an answer.

Also, my gear is awful. Like, actually. No T15 bonuses, no Lei-shen trinket, etc. I figure I shouldn't ever use Soul Fire in Meta, right?

Edit: also, I was wondering if using Carrion Swarm is ever worth it? I think I saw some other guides/videos suggest it (Evrelia's too, I think), but I can't see how this is worth its 50 fury cost; talking only about damage, ignore knockback utility.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Thaya

[Zagam 1,982]

You don't want the imp from the start from demonic calling? precasting shadowbolt on countdown at 3?

Sometimes this instantly procs Perfect Aim which can mess with the rotation above. If you follow the rotation above, you can use Dark Soul to modify your Shadowflame which boosts it greatly. The one missing Imp isn't going to sacrifice your DPS a great deal. I've also noticed that even after I pop Imp Swarm, on my first Shadowbolt or Soulfire cast, I still see another Imp pop out. I think that use Imp Swarm does NOT reset your Demonic Calling buff, so there's no need to pre-cast anything in order to snag that imp. Check it out next time...you'll likely see 6 little fellas.

[Zagam 1,982]

So I got a little question about HoG use: if I'm not planning to go meta yet (no DS, no procs, low fury - any combination of these), but have 2 stacks of HoG, what do I do? Is it ever worth using only 1 HoG? Is hopping into meta just to get a boosted 2-stack Shadowfury worth it even if I have like, 300 fury (especially considering the bug discovered a few pages back)? Or do I just let it sit there until I plan to go meta? I always have this moment of confusion just after doing a full meta burst, for example, as I have 2 stacks at this point and 0 fury. It can happen just mid fights as well, if preparing for burst phases or whatever messes with my cooldown rotations.

Sorry if this was asked before. I read OP and first few pages, and the last ~5 or so, didn't find an answer.

Also, my gear is awful. Like, actually. No T15 bonuses, no Lei-shen trinket, etc. I figure I shouldn't ever use Soul Fire in Meta, right?

Edit: also, I was wondering if using Carrion Swarm is ever worth it? I think I saw some other guides/videos suggest it (Evrelia's too, I think), but I can't see how this is worth its 50 fury cost; talking only about damage, ignore knockback utility.

As you acquire better gear and more Haste, you'll build Demonic Fury. You should almost always have enough DF to buff Shadowflame without sacrificing DF to your Dark Soul burn. You should never sit at 2 charges of Hand of Guldan, so if you don't have enough DF, just sling one out. Note that if any type of AoE is on the horrizon, you'll want to save those charges because prioritizing multiple targets for HoG to hit is a huge bonus.

As a side suggestion, if you don't have UVoLS and decent gear, try Destruction. It does better with less gear and is much easier to play. If you insist on Demo, best wishes on acquiring UVoLS.

[Thaya 1]

I'm just trying to learn to play demo as that's one area of warlock gameplay that I don't feel I've fully explored yet.

Also, all the top challenge mode runs are done as demo and that's initially the reason I want to learn it inside out - want to get realm best times for the 5.4 titles. Trinkets and setbonuses don't matter there, so I want to know the "base" playstyle as good as possible.

Thanks for the answers. I still wonder about Carrion Swarm, though. Tooltip damage is double of Void Ray and it only costs 10 DF more.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Thaya

[Zagam 1,982]

Carrion Swarm is very good and should be used on CD with sufficient Demonic Fury. It's more "bursty" than the other abilities. Void Ray should only be used when you still need AoE but nothing else is available (Chaos Wave, Carrion Swarm) but won't live long enough to justify Immolation Aura.

[FellintoOblivion 2]

Is the first post in this thread up to date for 5.3 or is that stuff scattered throughout the replies?

[Zagam 1,982]

Nothing changed for Demonology in 5.3.

[Twinkielock 15]

I have a question about Grim of Sacrifice. Why is it suggested to use this with a high ilevel? I think I understand taking the Glyph of Everlasting Affliction makes your dots last longer which if a crit laced doom is running is a great thing. This generates more imps which geneates more fury. Correct?

That part makes sense. What doesn't make sense to me though is the Grim of Sacrifice though.

[Omaric 246]

On a fight with multiple sustained targets you can pump out quite a bit of wild imps with the UVoLS trinket. GoSac increases wild imp damage by 30%. Wild imps generally are your highest source of damage. I'll let you take it from there. :)