5.4 Demonology Tips and Quirks

[Nytemare 2]

This whole guide seems be around Lei-Shen trinket, now come in 5.4 when new trinkets come out we going to be in trouble. 100% crit for 4 Sec, how the heck are they going to beat that trinekt? 200% crit for 4 secs lol, or 100% but longer. I just don't see how blizz is going to be able to beat this trinket power, and get people to use a T16 over it

How often does Doom tick?

Since I still having a hard time getting hang of demo again, I figure it would be best just to level a new lock as Demo(like i did back in Van) to relearn it that way, until I have unlock everything. Anyone got a good Demo leveling guide that take me from 1-90 and give break down the best professions, and Races for both faction. I seen many guides for other classes that do this, and I seen many that don't. I find breaking down the races, professions and everything to be better. So since I going to just remake another lock I like a guide that will help me level 1-90 with all the recommend professions, and Races and stuff.

I am also looking at your BIS, are they rank in the order you want them? at the end you say go with Helm and SHoulder then best in each slot, so best would be top one working down? I unable to do Heroics, as I have no guild that even doing tot, so I pretty much stuck with FLR and what I can get from world bosses, would love a list for that, 1st I figure I just replace whatever you said with LFR version, but I don't think that would fully work right?

Edited June 28, 2013 by Nytemare

[Zagam 1,982]

Thanks! My English is so poor, please be more patient with me~~~I've read all you wrote. But I found something was different from http://www.icy-veins...w-pve-dps-guide .

I'm a lillte confused. I will really appreciate if you spend sometime on replying me, a young demo WL.

In that post, haste is most important. "Once you have your legendary meta-gem and your Throne of Thunder trinkets, you should get as much Haste Rating as you possibly can and forget about Mastery Rating and Critical Strike Rating." You said In terms of Haste and Mastery, keep them close together in value.

About BIS, I'm in a common 10 people team. We just killed leishen 4 times. This is mine http://www.battlenet...隆/孫崇飄雲/advanced By the way I'm from China. I and my team have benefited too much form your post. We're young to be ready for H mode,so we're trying to give everybody their BIS. If one is not my BIS, I wil tell RL to give it to the others . In that post , chaye and leishen are BIS trinkets for demon WL. And you said leishen and hydra.

About gems, in that post they choose Reckless Vermilion Onyx in yellow, I think intellect is first. And I noticed that you choose Fracured Sun's Radiance.Why?

Thanks again from distant China

Your English is better than most who live here and have it as his or her own language, so no worries in that department.

As for the variance between my guide and Icy-Veins...it's impossible to come up with a 'one-size-fits-all' type reforge. Full Haste can and will produce the highest DPS parses, but it is tied into so much RNG that you're more often than not going to come out average or even below average with full Haste. Mastery provides more consistent damage while still benefiting from Haste. The benefit from Haste after hitting the 8100 Haste plateau drops off pretty significantly. I just posted some live trinket data showing that even with a 544 ilvl and over 9400 Haste rating, trinket procs can still go with 3 minutes in between them.

As a Demonology Warlock, you're not looking for sustained DPS in the general sense. Demonology is about big windows of burst and periods of moderate burst any other time you go into Metamophosis. Metamorphosis scales higher with Mastery than it does with Intellect. Mastery is also very solid for Demonology because it buffs your caster form, all of your pets, including your Wild Imps, and triple dips into Mastery in Metamorphosis. Gemming is a preference, in all honesty. I choose heavy Mastery, some choose heavy Haste, some gem Expertise in red slots. There's no "wrong" way to do it so long as you avoid Crit. Your secondary stats aren't going to decide your DPS nearly as much as doing your rotation correctly.

As for trinkets, Unerring is a must. The rest are up to you. I think that Cha-Ye's is the worst since it depends on Crit procs and as Demonology, we won't be putting stock into Crit. Breath also lasts longer, so you almost guarantee yourself the proc for the entire duration of Dark Soul in your opener.

[Zagam 1,982]

This whole guide seems be around Lei-Shen trinket, now come in 5.4 when new trinkets come out we going to be in trouble. 100% crit for 4 Sec, how the heck are they going to beat that trinekt? 200% crit for 4 secs lol, or 100% but longer. I just don't see how blizz is going to be able to beat this trinket power, and get people to use a T16 over it

How often does Doom tick?

Since I still having a hard time getting hang of demo again, I figure it would be best just to level a new lock as Demo(like i did back in Van) to relearn it that way, until I have unlock everything. Anyone got a good Demo leveling guide that take me from 1-90 and give break down the best professions, and Races for both faction. I seen many guides for other classes that do this, and I seen many that don't. I find breaking down the races, professions and everything to be better. So since I going to just remake another lock I like a guide that will help me level 1-90 with all the recommend professions, and Races and stuff.

I am also looking at your BIS, are they rank in the order you want them? at the end you say go with Helm and SHoulder then best in each slot, so best would be top one working down? I unable to do Heroics, as I have no guild that even doing tot, so I pretty much stuck with FLR and what I can get from world bosses, would love a list for that, 1st I figure I just replace whatever you said with LFR version, but I don't think that would fully work right?

You're not going to replace UVoLS in 5.4. You'll replace your other trinket slot with one of the new trinkets, likely with one of these two trinkets:

5.4 Raid - Normal - Siege of Orgrimmar - Boss X Loot X - Int Hit Trinket (4)

5.4 Raid - Normal - Siege of Orgrimmar - Boss X Loot X - Int Hit Trinket (1)

The first one listed is likely in its final form and will be a solid choice. The 2nd one has had so many tooltip variations posted out in the world, no one knows what's going on. The other trinkets include a Crit bonus (bleh), a static Crit trinket with a flat out 3% DPS gain, and a trinket that currently has a 1.6% chance to cleave onto nearby targets. Considering that to be extremely situational, I think we're looking at UVoLS and the matured Dislodged Foreign Object trinket, which is the first one linked (Haste + massive Int build up). It's almost like Wush...just better because it doesn't have Hit on it. While trinkets are still working themselves out, I'm really thinking we're not giving up Unerring. It's just too damn good.

Doom ticks based on Haste when cast. Not sure how else to explain that one...its baseline interval is 15 seconds. Baseline interval decreases as Haste increases.

I wrote a leveling guide a while ago, but leveling another Warlock to learn it is a waste of time, in my opinion. Just go do dailies, dungeons, etc. as Demo until you're comfortable with it.

The BiS list is geared towards picking some Heroic Thunderforged items over Tier items which cannot be Thunderforged. The 6 item level difference along with better itemization stats are what the BiS listing is to be used for. For someone who only does LFR, there is virtually no reason to not grab all 5 pieces of tier and replace 3 of them with 522 pieces via Valor vender.

[Nytemare 2]

KK so Doom start at 15 secs that gives me a starting point.

Hmm which tier ones would you recommend I replace for Valor? I would love to do normal or heroic, but all the pugs I get into seems to fail after 1 wipe, like they expect you to down all bosses with no wipes, New Players these days, have no idea what it was like back in the day lol

Leveling another wouldn't be so bad, as I been needing to level a new toon on a new server, and this could be it. Just give me idea on the race, or if you got a link to that leveling guide you mention that would be great.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Nytemare

[Zagam 1,982]

Just do a transfer, IMO. The new flex system and server merger will only be good for that mode of raiding. You still want to bounce to some other realm if you wanna jump into real PvE. As many assholes that were on Mal'Ganis, the PuGs there are more successful than some server's best guilds.

https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/294-warlock-leveling-guide/

This was LITERALLY my very first contribution to Icy-Veins. It may look a little...well, it was my first. We all remember our first time, right?

[Zagam 1,982]

In fact, now that I look at it, that guide is SOOOO outdated. Pre-MoP, it looks like. Ignore anything that says 'train' or 'pick talent x' and you should be fine. Ignore the Soulburn:Soulfire comment...oh boy, the whole thing is ragged. Um...go Demonology, use a Voidwalker until you get a Felguard, use Shadowbolt, Hand of Guldan, and Soulfire with Molten Core procs (not gotten until later). Talents don't matter for leveling except T2 with Mortal Coil. Huge help/heal while questing.

[Nytemare 2]

Just do a transfer, IMO. The new flex system and server merger will only be good for that mode of raiding. You still want to bounce to some other realm if you wanna jump into real PvE. As many assholes that were on Mal'Ganis, the PuGs there are more successful than some server's best guilds.

http://www.icy-veins...leveling-guide/

This was LITERALLY my very first contribution to Icy-Veins. It may look a little...well, it was my first. We all remember our first time, right?

Could but its so much cheaper to just remake a toon, then to pay money.

Should maybe think about updating the guide, as you no longer train Fel Synergy. For Horde Orc would be best for Demo, but for Alliance want do you feel? Worgen look cool, but as you have said we don't want Crit

Edited June 28, 2013 by Nytemare

[Zagam 1,982]

IMO, my time isn't worth redoing the leveling guide. I've found the leveling system in WoW pretty much walks you through it now. I might just delete that thing or archive it for fun. You don't train anything anymore. If you give yourself the three glyphs you need and 4 bags and head out on your toon, you'll never need to come back to town for anything except for level 20, 40, 60, 68, and 90 for mount license purchasing. I don't think you need a guide to pound out the levels anymore.

[Martin 0]

Your English is better than most who live here and have it as his or her own language, so no worries in that department.

As for the variance between my guide and Icy-Veins...it's impossible to come up with a 'one-size-fits-all' type reforge. Full Haste can and will produce the highest DPS parses, but it is tied into so much RNG that you're more often than not going to come out average or even below average with full Haste. Mastery provides more consistent damage while still benefiting from Haste. The benefit from Haste after hitting the 8100 Haste plateau drops off pretty significantly. I just posted some live trinket data showing that even with a 544 ilvl and over 9400 Haste rating, trinket procs can still go with 3 minutes in between them.

As a Demonology Warlock, you're not looking for sustained DPS in the general sense. Demonology is about big windows of burst and periods of moderate burst any other time you go into Metamophosis. Metamorphosis scales higher with Mastery than it does with Intellect. Mastery is also very solid for Demonology because it buffs your caster form, all of your pets, including your Wild Imps, and triple dips into Mastery in Metamorphosis. Gemming is a preference, in all honesty. I choose heavy Mastery, some choose heavy Haste, some gem Expertise in red slots. There's no "wrong" way to do it so long as you avoid Crit. Your secondary stats aren't going to decide your DPS nearly as much as doing your rotation correctly.

As for trinkets, Unerring is a must. The rest are up to you. I think that Cha-Ye's is the worst since it depends on Crit procs and as Demonology, we won't be putting stock into Crit. Breath also lasts longer, so you almost guarantee yourself the proc for the entire duration of Dark Soul in your opener.

Thank you! Zagam~

So, at now stage, for the demo WL, with 5100 hit rating, 8094 haste rating is a top priority, right? And then, I should try to get enough mastery rating till it is almost identical with haste rating? After that, build them both at the sametime?

About haste, mastery, intellect. I think you drop the intellect even with 8094 haste rating, don't you?

About BIS, now I know breath is my second choice as you said.(I've already relinquished two breaths to my teammates,one of them is TF, %>_<%) But I heard another theory last night. Fury is not a problem with 2pc Tier and high haste rating, so there is more soul fires to cast and nearly full critical hit doom in whole journey, so the critical hit is many enough, chaye is better than breath. How do you think of it?

Edited June 29, 2013 by Martin

[Zagam 1,982]

The trinkets are too unreliable to say which one is better. There are going to be some really poor RNG instances where having something like a 476 Relic of Yu'lon would be better than a 543 Breath because Breath could proc 3 times in 10 minutes if it wanted to. The trinkets are purely your choice and it's impossible to say which one is better on a fight by fight basis because of RNG.

[Darthsoul 3]

How much is it going to hurt me dps wise at 530ilvl to lose berserk if I go ally .....it seems like it makes the opener much better.

[Nytemare 2]

The trinkets are too unreliable to say which one is better. There are going to be some really poor RNG instances where having something like a 476 Relic of Yu'lon would be better than a 543 Breath because Breath could proc 3 times in 10 minutes if it wanted to. The trinkets are purely your choice and it's impossible to say which one is better on a fight by fight basis because of RNG.

Just got I got Frostborn Wristwraps with 712 mastery from LFR - according to your last post to me, you said if I just doing LFR to go with the tier, would I still want these? BIS shows I want either the haste or mastery ones, but since I dealing with LFR if they would be better then say 522 Troll-Burner Bracers from Shado-pan assault friendly valor vendor

[Jenaye 9]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/barthilas/Jenaye/simple

Being that I am a goblin with raid spell haste, is there really a point for me pushing so high with haste with my current gear, or does it simply make more sense to hit the 25% soft cap, and push more mastery?

[Martin 0]

Hood of the Thousandfold Hells - Hit/Haste/Tier - Lu'lin

Megaera's Shining Eye - Hit/Crit - Flaming Head

Mantle of the Thousandfold Hells - Haste/Crit - Iron Qon

Jadefire Drape

Starburner Robes - Haste/Mastery - Ra-den

Frostborn Wristwraps - random enchantment - Flaming Head

Lifedrainer's Sordid Grip - Hit/Haste - Durumu the Forgotten

Cord of Cacophonous Cawing - Hit/Haste - Ji-Kun

Leggings of the Discarded Warning - Haste/Mastery - Ra-den

Dam'ren's Frozen Footguards - Hit/Haste - Iron Qon

Ra-den's Summoning Band - Hit/Haste - Ra-den

Ro'shak's Remembrance - Crit/Mastery - Iron Qon

Unerring Vision of Lei Shen - Lei Shen

Breath of the Hydra - Flaming Head

Suen-Wo, Spire of the Falling Sun - Haste/Mastery - Lu'lin

Edited July 3, 2013 by Martin

[Skeletor 0]

I have a couple questions.

Some where in this thread I think I remember that Zagam said that he would use Imp Swarm before DS so all the imps can get set up and start their attack as you pop DS and that the Imp Swarm dynamically scales with stats.

If this is true why is Imp Swarm listed after DS in the opener at the start of this thread?

Secondly. I know the optimal haste level is 8094 Rating, but it has also been said that it may also be optimal to keep haste ~ mastery, is that the case only after reaching 8094?.

I am trying to determine if I should replace some of my 160 int gems with haste or haste+int, until I reach the aforementioned haste value.

My last run of Simcraft told me that my stat weights were mastery = 0.5, haste = 0.48... even though I am currently below the optimal haste level.

I have reforged for haste where ever possible and all my gems are either int+hit, int, or int+haste.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/area-52/Skelet%C3%B6r/advanced

Thank you in advance :D

[Omaric 246]

Imp Swarm: They all happen all at about the same time, so which one comes first doesn't really matter.

Haste: Feel free to keep them even if you like. As long as you aren't stacking crit you probably won't see huge DPS swings by stacking mastery after 8094 haste.

Gems: Definitely recommend using hybrid gems.

[obleak 10]

Imp Swarm: They all happen all at about the same time, so which one comes first doesn't really matter.

Haste: Feel free to keep them even if you like. As long as you aren't stacking crit you probably won't see huge DPS swings by stacking mastery after 8094 haste.

Gems: Definitely recommend using hybrid gems.

better to hit imp swarm first if possible so you have less globals while you're in your meta.. but that comes down to very small differences in parses.

[Zagam 1,982]

It is a very minor difference. I mentioned the order change because I modify it EVER so slightly to accomodate a late Unerring proc (late by 1-2 sec). It's a very min/max thing, and I admit in that post that I'm insane for trying to achieve that. The opener I list is very safe from insanity.

[obleak 10]

It is a very minor difference. I mentioned the order change because I modify it EVER so slightly to accomodate a late Unerring proc (late by 1-2 sec). It's a very min/max thing, and I admit in that post that I'm insane for trying to achieve that. The opener I list is very safe from insanity.

Agreed it is very minor.. but still optimal! :D That being said i can't say I always pop IMP SWARM before i enter meta.. so i should hush. LOL

[Juloroh 0]

Zagam, is it worth spamming mortal cleave in the opener to build demonic fury? because sometimes i tend to drop out of meta while bursting...

[Zagam 1,982]

Yeah, its RNGish if you stay in Meta during burst. I find it VERY difficult to do with Grim of Sac up. Grim of Service gives the biggest burst of Demonic Fury. Sometimes, I'll only push one Doom when Unerring procs since it lasts for 90 seconds and I have the Heroic version. I gamble with the hopes of nailing another proc later. This saves 50 Demonic Fury in your burst, but it hurts your sustained a bit by not having a mega Doom for an additional 45 seconds and really hurts if you don't get another Unerring proc. It's maddening...it really is. Just roll with the punches. As for spamming Mortal Cleave, make sure he has enough to energy to always use Felstorm/Wrathstorm on cooldown.

[Sifon 25]

FINALLY LEI SHEN HC DOWN AFTER 3 WEEKS, 541 UVLS dropped but went some Shadow Priest due to stupid dkp system :(

[Zagam 1,982]

HTF UVLS went to a Spriest before you? DKP system should have been overriden. UVLS, especially HTF, is your BiS until the next xpac. Rather poor decision on your guild's part, IMO.

[obleak 10]

FINALLY LEI SHEN HC DOWN AFTER 3 WEEKS, 541 UVLS dropped but went some Shadow Priest due to stupid dkp system

HTF UVLS went to a Spriest before you? DKP system should have been overriden. UVLS, especially HTF, is your BiS until the next xpac. Rather poor decision on your guild's part, IMO.

Oh em gee... i'm sorry :(

[JvChequer 43]

FINALLY LEI SHEN HC DOWN AFTER 3 WEEKS, 541 UVLS dropped but went some Shadow Priest due to stupid dkp system

At least was not a tard fire mage thinking about "how awesome 100% crit is".

Edited July 8, 2013 by JvChequer