5.4 Demonology Tips and Quirks

[Nytemare 2]

So I been reading you guide for each boss, and lot of fight you mention getting doom up on lots of adds, do you got some special macro you find useful?

I currently play Destro and have MouseOver macro for Havok, Fear, Banish, and Soulstone, but since I want to go back Demo thinking I need more macro to get doom up on all targets, like one to go meta -> doom instantly or something? Also thinking I might make all my spells mouseover macro that work. Just love to know some good Macro for all specs, and even good ones for Demo

[Zagam 1,982]

Whatever you're using for a mouseover for Fear or Banish, you could swap in Metamorphosis: Doom. For me personally, I use ElvUI and with the target frames, I can see what DoTs are or are not applied. Doom, for me, is binded to 2 and Metamorphosis is bound to Q. Very smooth to go boom-boom with the buttons. I don't recommend building a macro to put them together because you shouldn't be casting Doom every time you enter Metamorphosis. Just put it on a key you're comfortable with or a mouseover you're comfortable with, but don't combine the two.

[Darthsoul 3]

Zagam do you use a mouse over for fights like council and animus? I was also wondering if you go affliction for any fights with almost bis gear now?

[Nytemare 2]

Whatever you're using for a mouseover for Fear or Banish, you could swap in Metamorphosis: Doom. For me personally, I use ElvUI and with the target frames, I can see what DoTs are or are not applied. Doom, for me, is binded to 2 and Metamorphosis is bound to Q. Very smooth to go boom-boom with the buttons. I don't recommend building a macro to put them together because you shouldn't be casting Doom every time you enter Metamorphosis. Just put it on a key you're comfortable with or a mouseover you're comfortable with, but don't combine the two.

I use ElvUI as well, and name plates are hard for me to do mouse over, it mostly so I can put someone on focus and mouse over it, and if I do more mouse over on fights like council I can just mouse over each boss, and add frame that pops and dot them up.

For the whole Met --> Doom I had plan to have Met by its self, it was more for when Boom trinket pop (Lei-Shen) I could hit it and go meta and cast doom all at the same time, since meta is off GCD, thus getting off more 100% crit dooms faster in that 4 sec window - more for fights like council.

I saw this macro

#showtooltip

/stopcasting

/use [form:0]Metamorphosis;[form:1]

/use [@boss1] corruption

Make 4 similar macros with boss1, boss2, boss3, boss4, bind them at 4 close buttons mine are F1 to F4, when Perfect Aim procs, F1-F2-F3-F4, and you have 4 Dooms on 4 bosses, it switches to meta itself but you have to leave manually.

and was going to try it out. For binding Q could work, its default on lock, but on warrior set up I use that for his thunderclap guess I could redo both toons keybinds so lock and use part of warriors, and warrior can use part of the locks. -- example on Lock my F key is interact with mouseover target, and on warrior its my taunt.

For macro have a Darksoul + Eng Tinker + GOSer, and a Execute Doomguard one that pops a jade potion which is used only when hero is pop, but is there any other macro I should do - if I do demo should I replace GOSrv with Imp Swam or what?

Overall I love just a list of macros you use to bring out the most in your lock.

On a side note I was looking at your lock Zag, and you not using the staff from twins - is it not the better one after all? Also going over your BIS and SimCraft it seems SImCraft doesn't use the Legendary Cloak instead a Heroic TF one

Edited July 13, 2013 by Nytemare

[Jenaye 9]

ADSRTVNSDRULBSERLUVNSOBTVLKJVDFLKJGSE

We killed Lei Shen, trink dropped, and they gave the trink to our lock that fulltimes Destro.

EFIUBLESRBEKRBVKULESRBVZXBVGTSEI

[Alphric 7]

ADSRTVNSDRULBSERLUVNSOBTVLKJVDFLKJGSE

We killed Lei Shen, trink dropped, and they gave the trink to our lock that fulltimes Destro.

EFIUBLESRBEKRBVKULESRBVZXBVGTSEI

That sucks :(

[Zagam 1,982]

On a side note I was looking at your lock Zag, and you not using the staff from twins - is it not the better one after all? Also going over your BIS and SimCraft it seems SImCraft doesn't use the Legendary Cloak instead a Heroic TF one

You speak as if I have a choice...of course I want a Heroic Thunderforged staff from Twins. Ask the nice ladies to hand one over. Notice I'm still reforging out of Hit. It'd be nice to not have a staff with Hit on it.

As for Simcraft, the profiles aren't updated for 5.4. They have a lot of work to do and are working on it currently. They also can't load a bunch of stuff only to have it change on them. The PTR is very volatile at the moment, so things are evolving almost daily. It would make no sense to build profiles only to have them change the next day. Be patient. In the meantime, you can put the legendary cloak in yourself. Just locate your cloak's ID number via wowhead and plug it in yourself. Simcraft will autmoatically update all the statistics.

[Zagam 1,982]

ADSRTVNSDRULBSERLUVNSOBTVLKJVDFLKJGSE

We killed Lei Shen, trink dropped, and they gave the trink to our lock that fulltimes Destro.

EFIUBLESRBEKRBVKULESRBVZXBVGTSEI

There are Warlocks who full-time Destruction? Wut...that is absolutely horrible to hear. He will gain a VERY small amount of DPS and will replace it next tier. You would have gotten a HUGE buff and held onto it next tier. Such is the life of guilds who don't see the big picture. Shinies usually distract from the good of the team mentality =(

[Omaric 246]

Zagam,

What's the focus of the full haste setup? Is there a different priority list? Are you just going for more Wild Imps from the passive? I don't understand what makes it pull ahead with higher item levels.

[Sifon 25]

Zagam,

What's the focus of the full haste setup? Is there a different priority list? Are you just going for more Wild Imps from the passive? I don't understand what makes it pull ahead with higher item levels.

Not exactly sure but sometimes I play with 14.3k haste(Goblin Shadowflame breakpoint), my single target dps feel a lot higher and I don't lose that much aoe because I can keep 10k unbuffed mastery too.

[Zagam 1,982]

I'm at 545 ilvl and still have Crit on my bracers, legs (biggest problem), and both rings. I think I sit at 14.9k Haste (same as Sifon, but I'm an Orc) which puts me in the region of 9k Mastery. The higher Haste does the following:

Reduces CD of Imp Swarm

Reduces CD of Demonic Calling

Reduces cast time of Shadowbolt/Soul Fire in caster form

Reduces cast time of Soul Fire in Meta form

The reduction in CD of Imp Swarm and Demonic Calling buffs our highest damage component. At 20% Haste and 40% Haste, we hit a threshold where if we use Imp Swarm with Dark Soul every time (every 2:00), we receive an extra Imp that is spawned JUST before we pop Imp Swarm and Dark Soul thus disabling Demonic Calling.

I've noticed lately with a high Haste buildup, especially last week, I played rather poorly in casting Shadowbolts with 10 stacks of Molten Core. I can partially blame this on my new UI setup, but it's more like an excuse than an explanation. Having more Imps = more Molten Core charges = more Soul Fires = more damage. It's all a big chain effect. Haste also, although minimally and randomly, increases RPPM rate.

Remember my earlier point in that stacking Haste was a poor decision to consistently max out DPS? I still stand by that point. However, with proper care (not releasing, not DPSing trash, etc), you can stack trinket procs to your benefit by having them always proc. While Haste may have a higher variance in the DPS it reports by randomizing things while more Mastery is more stable, you also will see the highest parses with full Haste. I DON'T recommend it if you are progressing. I'm simply testing things now that I have things on farm. Another point to make is I believe the Haste cap we are at now to be the absolute cap for the rest of the expansion. This will depend on the development of the Glyph of Everlasting Affliction. With the glyph, we get our 3rd additional tick of Doom at 14840. The 4th additional tick wouldn't come until we hit 21589 Haste which, in my opinion, seems a bit out of reach with as assumed 25% increase in secondary stat allotment in BiS T16. With that said, if my assumption is correct, 14840 (or 14873 realistically) will be the absolute cap for Demonology Warlocks as this covers Shadowflame and Doom and both caps are over 7000 rating points further down the road. This means I will be used to this Haste rating for the rest of the expansion and as my gear grows, I'll only acquire more and more Mastery which will feel like a bigger upgrade since it's a flat DPS increase across the board. MoP has let these secondary stats get out of control with me hitting 42% raid Haste and spiking up over 130% with Bloodlust and Tempus Repit. With 553/566 item level gear coming up soon (572 if TF version exists!!!), I'm just doing live theorycrafting with a full Haste build.

TL;DR: I'm practicing for 5.4 with what I feel will be the established Haste threshold for Demonology Warlocks.

[Sifon 25]

My guess Everlasting Affliction won't effect DoT durations anymore, it will bake dot extension back to Fel Flame, without EA, UVLS might worth less but probably it will perform better than every other trinket in next tier. So +2 Doom breakpoint is 12602 and +3 one is 22625(these are all goblin values its +400-500 for other races). 22k won't worth with all that mastery loss, and its beyond gcd cap so I guess its irrelevant. With 12.6k haste, we can have 17-18k mastery assuming %25 stat increase.

[Omaric 246]

Interesting, thanks!

[JvChequer 43]

I will back to 14,8~k haste breakpoint when reach at 545~ ilvl and get off my tier legs and chest, because less than 10k mastery kinda sucks for aoe and stuff.

[Nytemare 2]

You speak as if I have a choice...of course I want a Heroic Thunderforged staff from Twins. Ask the nice ladies to hand one over. Notice I'm still reforging out of Hit. It'd be nice to not have a staff with Hit on it.

As for Simcraft, the profiles aren't updated for 5.4. They have a lot of work to do and are working on it currently. They also can't load a bunch of stuff only to have it change on them. The PTR is very volatile at the moment, so things are evolving almost daily. It would make no sense to build profiles only to have them change the next day. Be patient. In the meantime, you can put the legendary cloak in yourself. Just locate your cloak's ID number via wowhead and plug it in yourself. Simcraft will autmoatically update all the statistics.

I look again but staff was just heroic version and not TF one, so figure you had the normal heroic one

Also when I mean Legendary cloak it really epic right now - that what I was going at - they show using the Heroic TF one, over the Jadefire you show

[Nytemare 2]

I'm at 545 ilvl and still have Crit on my bracers, legs (biggest problem), and both rings. I think I sit at 14.9k Haste (same as Sifon, but I'm an Orc) which puts me in the region of 9k Mastery. The higher Haste does the following:

Reduces CD of Imp Swarm

Reduces CD of Demonic Calling

Reduces cast time of Shadowbolt/Soul Fire in caster form

Reduces cast time of Soul Fire in Meta form

The reduction in CD of Imp Swarm and Demonic Calling buffs our highest damage component. At 20% Haste and 40% Haste, we hit a threshold where if we use Imp Swarm with Dark Soul every time (every 2:00), we receive an extra Imp that is spawned JUST before we pop Imp Swarm and Dark Soul thus disabling Demonic Calling.

I've noticed lately with a high Haste buildup, especially last week, I played rather poorly in casting Shadowbolts with 10 stacks of Molten Core. I can partially blame this on my new UI setup, but it's more like an excuse than an explanation. Having more Imps = more Molten Core charges = more Soul Fires = more damage. It's all a big chain effect. Haste also, although minimally and randomly, increases RPPM rate.

Remember my earlier point in that stacking Haste was a poor decision to consistently max out DPS? I still stand by that point. However, with proper care (not releasing, not DPSing trash, etc), you can stack trinket procs to your benefit by having them always proc. While Haste may have a higher variance in the DPS it reports by randomizing things while more Mastery is more stable, you also will see the highest parses with full Haste. I DON'T recommend it if you are progressing. I'm simply testing things now that I have things on farm. Another point to make is I believe the Haste cap we are at now to be the absolute cap for the rest of the expansion. This will depend on the development of the Glyph of Everlasting Affliction. With the glyph, we get our 3rd additional tick of Doom at 14840. The 4th additional tick wouldn't come until we hit 21589 Haste which, in my opinion, seems a bit out of reach with as assumed 25% increase in secondary stat allotment in BiS T16. With that said, if my assumption is correct, 14840 (or 14873 realistically) will be the absolute cap for Demonology Warlocks as this covers Shadowflame and Doom and both caps are over 7000 rating points further down the road. This means I will be used to this Haste rating for the rest of the expansion and as my gear grows, I'll only acquire more and more Mastery which will feel like a bigger upgrade since it's a flat DPS increase across the board. MoP has let these secondary stats get out of control with me hitting 42% raid Haste and spiking up over 130% with Bloodlust and Tempus Repit. With 553/566 item level gear coming up soon (572 if TF version exists!!!), I'm just doing live theorycrafting with a full Haste build.

TL;DR: I'm practicing for 5.4 with what I feel will be the established Haste threshold for Demonology Warlocks.

So haste should only be used if you have it on farm?

Zag here is my current gear, have a look and let me know what I should change - I do have other items like the twins staff but what stats should I get - 9100 haste or something http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/stormrage/N%C3%BFtemare/simple

[Zagam 1,982]

You don't have the item level to push more than 8100 Haste. 9100 Haste is just 1000 Haste that could be used in Mastery. Really not room to wiggle while you're gearing up.

[Nytemare 2]

You don't have the item level to push more than 8100 Haste. 9100 Haste is just 1000 Haste that could be used in Mastery. Really not room to wiggle while you're gearing up.

KK cool, how should I use Robot to reforge, I could try Sim - which I do with out pots, flask, food, hero, stormlash, skull banner - but want to make sure they forge me into Demo right so I can switch to it and do good, right now this seems to be the destruction best results - ran many sims and what I using right now gave the highest dps - I also put Oh fire is hot playstyle so I get an idea what I should pull if something happens, and I mess up or lagging

[obleak 10]

i'm about 539 or something i'm thinking i may be able to reach that haste.. We shall see.. i'll attempt it before raid tonight.

[rhino 1]

KK cool, how should I use Robot to reforge, I could try Sim - which I do with out pots, flask, food, hero, stormlash, skull banner - but want to make sure they forge me into Demo right so I can switch to it and do good, right now this seems to be the destruction best results - ran many sims and what I using right now gave the highest dps - I also put Oh fire is hot playstyle so I get an idea what I should pull if something happens, and I mess up or lagging

For me, Demo started overtaking destro around lfr UVoLS and 515 ilvl. At 527 Demo seems to be my most damaging spec by a fair margin. I am not sure why you wouldn't use buffs when simming though. I use it as a tool to try to replicate the kind of damage i might do in a raid: I try to recreate my raid environment in my sims.

As for my actual AMR weights I use:

Int-------------------5.51

SP-------------------4.45

hit-------------------4.3

Haste to cap-----------3

mastery---------------2.78

haste(8097+)----------2.76

crit-------------------1.75

Raiding mode (15% hit)is enabled, and soft cap is picked manually at 8097.

These numbers were inspired by my sims (and this forum, thanks everyone!), but modified slightly ~ the actual numbers will be off even for me at this time but the priorities are still what I am looking for. You will notice mastery >haste> (int/2). The haste to cap at 3 is an arbitrary number. Having haste so close to mastery was so that I can make sure AMR doesnt do anything stupid trying to get my haste down to exactly 8097.

So far this priority list in the new beta AMR optimizer has been fantastic, hope it offers any help.

Edited July 16, 2013 by rhino

[Zagam 1,982]

Just shows that people can make a preference of Haste or Mastery and that one or the other is not the 'correct' answer. Good work and analysis.

[Alphric 7]

Doesn't matter with denomination it is, hastism or masterism, as long as we're all studying warlockism.

[Nytemare 2]

For me, Demo started overtaking destro around lfr UVoLS and 515 ilvl. At 527 Demo seems to be my most damaging spec by a fair margin. I am not sure why you wouldn't use buffs when simming though. I use it as a tool to try to replicate the kind of damage i might do in a raid: I try to recreate my raid environment in my sims.

As for my actual AMR weights I use:

Int-------------------5.51

SP-------------------4.45

hit-------------------4.3

Haste to cap-----------3

mastery---------------2.78

haste(8097+)----------2.76

crit-------------------1.75

Raiding mode (15% hit)is enabled, and soft cap is picked manually at 8097.

These numbers were inspired by my sims (and this forum, thanks everyone!), but modified slightly ~ the actual numbers will be off even for me at this time but the priorities are still what I am looking for. You will notice mastery >haste> (int/2). The haste to cap at 3 is an arbitrary number. Having haste so close to mastery was so that I can make sure AMR doesnt do anything stupid trying to get my haste down to exactly 8097.

So far this priority list in the new beta AMR optimizer has been fantastic, hope it offers any help.

See I do it without buffs, and without things like flask, pots, and food as I don't have those in LFR - buffs sure - but see in lfr you can't control skull banner or when hero would be pop, and I want to know what I able to do without having to worry about if people pop stuff right. Plus it gives me an idea what I should pull without all that - making it easy. Also I do Oh fire is hot player skill encase of lag, or it gets chaotic and I clip my dot, or don't get CB off when I should. No matter how many times you done a fight, played a spec you bound to make a mistake at some point, and having idea what I will do if that happens helps.

So those are some good numbers for me to plug in and get gem and forged? I just want to make sure AMR doesn't do shit reforges or gear picks, and Sim shows me doing lot of damage

ON side note I read there a glyph that make DS have 2 charges wonder how that will work, also if current change to demo mastery goes live is it a buff or debuff? instead of doing 18K master, it do 30%

Edited July 16, 2013 by Nytemare

[Jenaye 9]

I currently sit at ~10800 haste and 7800 mastery unbuffed, and for ME that's a good balance between getting spells out in a timely fashion and enough mastery to really piss off my hunter and druid in AoE situations (that and the other warlock, but we're not going to talk about her, sore subject). At the end of the day, no matter what Zagam and the others say, do what is most comfortable for you, and your rotation. As you all get higher in gear levels, you'll start to see what affects your dps most, and even running sims can't predict shit that you tend to do out of habit. The numbers here are a guide to get you to certain points with dot durations and ticks, but what you do after that is up to you.

[Vestion 8]

To be honest I tend to like mastery more than haste, I normally feel like 1000 mastery rating is a straight up damage boost than 1000 haste rating (unless thats to hit a cap ofc) I honestly think the best advice for people right now is, hit a haste cap and then stack mastery. 8100 haste is enougth haste for a demo lock to do everything required in the rotation smoothly and is a nice cap to sit on. When you do start getting TF heroic items, then you can look at 10k and 14k haste. While on the way to thoes caps though, mastery will do you well.