5.4 Demonology Tips and Quirks

[bangorme 0]

I'm just getting back into WOW, so have been reading here.  Has everyone seen this:  http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/#0001110000000000000000000000000000  It appears to show demo as the dps leader.   This is 25 man heroic, but all of them have similar results. 

 

Can someone tell me how to determine who the top 50 locks are in WOW?  When I put together my lock I'd just like to see what others are doing.

 

 

[Omaric 246]

I don't know about you guys, but my normal UVLS (upgraded to 530) is proc'ing VERY frequently at the start of each fight.

[Lockybalboa 618]

I don't know about you guys, but my normal UVLS (upgraded to 530) is proc'ing VERY frequently at the start of each fight.

 

 

Heroic 2/2 for me, procs a LOT on pull.

[Merlins 0]

Heroic 2/2 for me, procs a LOT on pull.

This, It' s procing just like it did before patch

[mediocregatsby 18]

heroic thunderforged UVLS procs like mad still. i cant remember a single pull where it didnt proc either immediately or a couple seconds into dark soul. in 5.3 heroic gear, demo should be beating affliction on a decent number of bosses (and destro is way behind both). will need to see how things change with 2pc t16 and immerseus trinket.

[Kazistrasz 216]

I wasn't and haven't been getting my 530 UVLS at the start of the fight. Well, I did get it once, but it was way early in the opener as soon as I pushed a button actually, which threw the whole thing off.

 

My problem is that, while it is indeed still proccing at the same rate during the fight (they didn't change the RPPM on it, afterall), it's the limited duration that kills me. Everlasting Affliction really helped me keep that uptime before when it lasted 2:15 at full pandemic,and even then sometimes I'd have to reapply without UVLS when it wore off. Now, with only 1:30 at full pandemic, it's proving impossible to keep it up.

 

Oh, speaking of openers, what do you recommend now that Imp Swarm is out?

Edited September 12, 2013 by Kazistrasza

[Omaric 246]

I'm still using Imp Swarm and still owning face.

[Desos 18]

I kicked imp Swarm glyph out and the opener feels like starving without a PA proc and i can barely manage to get through Dark Soul while in Meta, though t15 4pc(best i could get for Affli/Demo),
maybe it would be reasonable to squeeze in a shadow bolt into the opener, but this could offset the PA proc and casting doom


Only solution seems to be saving up DF from trash like spriests do it with their orbs
http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/character/blackrock/Desos/advanced

 

 

[Zagam 1,982]

DF decays relatively quickly as opposed to Shadow Orbs.  That's not going to be a reliable strategy.  When you lose your 2pc T15, the opener is going to feel even worse.

 

Using Imp Swarm is likely fine right now, but when you get your 2pc bonus and you need Molten Core charges frequently, you're going to want your steady flow of Imps from Demonic Calling.  Although, if you're doing fine with UVLS procs, then you're ok, but losing the procs and 2pc bonus would be pretty rough.  I got the 2pc bonus (helm and chest) and tested it with Affliction...it was up a TON.  I'll fudge around with it as Demo this weekend to see how it works out. 

[Desos 18]

jup, I´ve encountered myself often enough sizzling with DF, ready to pull, when some raid member said:" ohh sorry guys, *some minor problems*, I will be back in *the exact time for my lock´s DF to be back at 200*"

Am I right with the assumption that dropping from t15 4pc(heroic) to t15 2pc+t16 2pc is worth it, even with LFR pieces?

[Nyanchan 2]

Hello, there are many posts so i'm not sure if this has been answered already but here is my question:

 

Why is affli supposed to be better than demo?

 

Im currently 12/14 in SoO and i have seen many fights where being demo makes everything so much easier. Specially being able to pew pew while moving with touch and fel flame.

 

Why is UVoLS not as good right now?

 

I swear it procs more constantly now than before. about 10% of the pulls it didnt proc at the specific usual time, but it did the following 5-10 secs after. (Then again, it could be the increased proc rate of the H version)

 

And finally, have the reforge goal numbers changed from what they were in ToT?

 

Thanks!

[Muoric 3]

Why is affli supposed to be better than demo?

 

Im currently 12/14 in SoO and i have seen many fights where being demo makes everything so much easier. Specially being able to pew pew while moving with touch and fel flame.

Sims vs. actual fights and single target vs. actual fights. Same as destruction being bad in ToT and still shining on a number of actual fights. Affliction is damn strong on a lot of fights dependign on your tactics, but the tactics make the big difference between the viability of the specs.

So in short there's not many fights that are stationary single target fights or ones with even only light movement.

 

Why is UVoLS not as good right now?

 

I swear it procs more constantly now than before. about 10% of the pulls it didnt proc at the specific usual time, but it did the following 5-10 secs after. (Then again, it could be the increased proc rate of the H version)

Really depends on rng. And the difference between a normal and heroic version is significant. I have the normal version and on a lot of fights there's no way to keep up crit doom.

The big difference is really the removal of everlasting affliction more than any change to rppm mechanics. I likewise seem to get a proc at the start, but after that it gets annoying the longer the fight is. A guildied has htf version and I don't see him changing it at any point.

 

And finally, have the reforge goal numbers changed from what they were in ToT?

 

Thanks!

Not much to make a difference. If you've been at exactly the 8094 breakpoint you want to go a bit higher (8097 breakpoint), but don't see many people clearing 12/14 being that low on haste. If you offspec affliction I'd personally go for the affli breakpoint of 9778 and then all out mastery.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsDL8HE-bGDVdFFVWlIzbzQ5RFJJZGFyQ25xZmFYa0E#gid=7 for haste breakpoints

[Zagam 1,982]

It's entirely possible I misguided some on UVLS.  I'm testing it out next week on a couple of heroics and most of the normals we reclear.  As for what spec is best, it really comes down to player skill.  I can't say 'go be Affliction for this' and you expect to do better than you would as Demo if you're more comfortable.  Most of the suggestions here are just that...suggestions.  It's up to you to employ them and make your own adjustments based on your unique situation.

[mediocregatsby 18]

i've been running demo with HTF UVLS this week on our normal clear and the trinket is still a beast. always procs on pull and still procs very often throughout the fight. 

 

anyways i picked up my 2pc t16 last night. already dropped t15 gear so i won't have double 2pc bonuses. how exactly does the 2pc t16 bonus factor into playstyle? it sounds like UVLS will be even more critical since molten core is driven by wild imps, and wild imps is driven by UVLS dooms. so it just feeds into itself in a crazy awesome way. 

 

kinda seems like i'll be using my HTF UVLS for the entirety of SOO if this is true. 

[Zagam 1,982]

Yeah, I'm thinking Bindings + UVLS BiS for Demo esp with set bonus.  The 2pc is INSANE with its synergy with pets.  It also plays into Supremacy being equivalent or a little better than Service!  I'm likely going to play Supremacy this week and test it.  This is another reason Imp Swarm is bad...the 20% affects all pets.  Using Imp Swarm means no Imps for a period of time.  If you don't use Imp Swarm, you see a constant flow of Imps and they get buffed by 20% periodically from set bonus!  It's insane how it all ties together.

[Omaric 246]

You'll always have imps if you're playing with UVLS.  :P

 

The difference in the amount of imps you have from Imp Swarm or not is negligible.  Don't know why you hate Imp Swarm so much, lol.

[mediocregatsby 18]

yeah i'm not convinced about glyph of imp swarm being terrible in actual practice either. it'll certainly help with the god damn terrible opener at least.

[Muoric 3]

For me the big question that I feel I need to find an answer to is how big buffs do I need to have up to imp swarm to be worth it. And how big a loss it's otherwise if I take imp swarm just for the opener.

 

I definitely feel the difference in opener with imp swarm vs. not using it. But after that I do believe in the math that it's prob not worth it. Just wondering if taking the glyph and swarming at the start of the fight might be the best way to go in the end. With naturally the option to use swarm with huge buffs or in the end when you know you'll get more imps by using it compared to normal generation.

[JvChequer 43]

Void Ray now costs 80 Fury instead of 40 Fury.

 

 

GRATZ BLIZZARD, U'RE AWESOME

 

 

-.-"

 

 

 

The only reasonable explanation for this is it's a bug and will be fixed. There's no way Void Ray with 80 fury cost be fair.

Edited September 13, 2013 by JvChequer

[Omaric 246]

For me the big question that I feel I need to find an answer to is how big buffs do I need to have up to imp swarm to be worth it. And how big a loss it's otherwise if I take imp swarm just for the opener.

 

I definitely feel the difference in opener with imp swarm vs. not using it. But after that I do believe in the math that it's prob not worth it. Just wondering if taking the glyph and swarming at the start of the fight might be the best way to go in the end. With naturally the option to use swarm with huge buffs or in the end when you know you'll get more imps by using it compared to normal generation.

 

I always, always use it every time I use Dark Soul, which I do every 2 minutes unless I need to delay it for a transition or boss specific buff incoming.  Don't worry about any other buff with Imp Swarm.  Use it with DS and you win the game.

[Zagam 1,982]

Void Ray now costs 80 Fury instead of 40 Fury.

 

 

GRATZ BLIZZARD, U'RE AWESOME

 

 

-.-"

 

 

 

The only reasonable explanation for this is it's a bug and will be fixed. There's no way Void Ray with 80 fury cost be fair.

This is likely a translation error and an implementation error where they increased cost by 100%.  Unfortunately, they let it happen to Void Ray as well as Fel Flame.  I'm sure a fix will come soon.

[hybur 0]

How about this listing for demo BiS? Is it worth going for the 4pc? How will this correlate to affliction if I off-spec it? And I have heroic ULVS. Thanks guys :)

 

Helm: Hood of the Horned Nightmare, Tier piece (Thok) 
Neck: Untainted Guardian's Chain (Sha of Pride)
Shoulders: Shoulderpads of Dou Dou Chong (Fallen Protectors)
Chest: Robes of the Tendered Heart (Fallen Protectors)
Bracers: Avool's Ancestral Bracers (Spoils of Pandaria)
Gloves: Gloves of the Horned Nightmare, Tier piece (General Nazgrim)
Belt: Belt of Ominous Tremble (Iron Jugg)
Legs: Leggings of Furious Flame (Iron Jugg) 
Feet: Bone-Inlaid Sandals (Galakras)
Ring 1: Signet of the Dinomancers (Thok) 
Ring 2: Iyyokuk's Hereditary Seal (Paragons)
Main Hand: Immaculately Preserved Wand (Spoils) 
Off Hand: Revelations of Y'Shaarj (Garrosh) 

Trinket 1: Purified Bindings of Immerseus (Immerseus)

Trinket 2: Black Blood of Y'Shaarj (Garrosh) **ULVS WILL most likely go here**

[Juloroh 0]

One thing  i noticed about demo opener since 5.4 UVLS :

UVLS seems to proc a lot earlier now, so i can't land a 2 stack shadowflame with UVLS plus Doom like before, big loss i think...in order to get  a 100 % crit doom , i don't cast the first hand of guldan(of 5.3 opener).

Zagam, did you try it?if not ,I think it should be mentioned in your guide after you try demo opener....

From your point of view, what is the optimal opener now with 5.4 UVLS?

Edited September 16, 2013 by Juloroh

[Zagam 1,982]

How about this listing for demo BiS? Is it worth going for the 4pc? How will this correlate to affliction if I off-spec it? And I have heroic ULVS. Thanks guys

 

Helm: Hood of the Horned Nightmare, Tier piece (Thok) 

Neck: Untainted Guardian's Chain (Sha of Pride)

Shoulders: Shoulderpads of Dou Dou Chong (Fallen Protectors)

Chest: Robes of the Tendered Heart (Fallen Protectors)

Bracers: Avool's Ancestral Bracers (Spoils of Pandaria)

Gloves: Gloves of the Horned Nightmare, Tier piece (General Nazgrim)

Belt: Belt of Ominous Tremble (Iron Jugg)

Legs: Leggings of Furious Flame (Iron Jugg) 

Feet: Bone-Inlaid Sandals (Galakras)

Ring 1: Signet of the Dinomancers (Thok) 

Ring 2: Iyyokuk's Hereditary Seal (Paragons)

Main Hand: Immaculately Preserved Wand (Spoils) 

Off Hand: Revelations of Y'Shaarj (Garrosh) 

Trinket 1: Purified Bindings of Immerseus (Immerseus)

Trinket 2: Black Blood of Y'Shaarj (Garrosh) **ULVS WILL most likely go here**

Looks fine.  Not real sure looking at a BiS listing right now is viable.  Heroics aren't even out and a TON of guilds haven't even cleared normals.  BiS profiles are interesting but not the best way to look at your goals.  Gear and trinket synergy changes with every single upgrade.  "Best in Slot" is a very loose term these days...everyone wants to know what the absolute best item is.  Sometimes it's clear.  Sometimes it's not.  Is the 4pc good for single target?  Is it awesome for AoE fights?  Is BBoY really better than UVLS?  What about the Cleave trinket on a heavy AoE fight?  There are too many variables.  BiS lists existed back when fights weren't so complicated and you only had to worry about Hit, Haste, Crit, and Spell Power.  Stats and fights are far more complicated to designate a "BiS" list. 

 

One thing  i noticed about demo opener since 5.4 UVLS :

UVLS seems to proc a lot earlier now, so i can't land a 2 stack shadowflame with UVLS plus Doom like before, big loss i think...in order to get  a 100 % crit doom , i don't cast the first hand of guldan(of 5.3 opener).

Zagam, did you try it?if not ,I think it should be mentioned in your guide after you try demo opener....

From your point of view, what is the optimal opener now with 5.4 UVLS?

I played with UVLS in the Flex raid I ran this weekend and was pleasantly surprised at the number of procs.  My skepticism has been shedded.  It seems to proc on the VERY first tick of damage.  I strongly suggest NOT pre-casting a Soul Fire or Shadowbolt.  The opener I found most optimal was to do CoE, Dark Soul, Berserking, Grim of Service, Corruption, Hand of Guldan, Hand of Guldan, Meta -> Doom -> Soul Fire til I get a 2pc proc -> Touch of Chaos spam.

 

My UVLS procs almost as soon as the first HoG lands.  However, because of the casting animation, I have time to pinch off the 2nd one and UVLS shows up right as that is coming down.  Popping into Meta gives 2 stack of Shadowflame the 100% crit bonus and modified by Metamorphosis.  I only cast ONE Doom because I'm being a little DF hungry fishing for 2pc procs.  The number of UVLS procs I'm seeing makes casting only one Doom sufficient, but I'm sure there will be some RNG where you don't get another proc within a minute.  Something tells me they let temporary Haste procs buff the proc rate of UVLS...whether it was intended or a bug...I almost always got a proc within or directly after a Tempus Repit proc.  Hard to say.

[Vestion 8]

So, im going affliction for single target now and finding that good, but im wondering about aoe. For fights that require aoe, is demo still viable with the 20% nerfs? Its just I can go destru for them if I have to, but if I can go demo and get get shit dps that would be amazing.