5.4 Demonology Tips and Quirks

[Uzern 1]

Hello.

 

What's the rationale for not choosing Glyph of Imp Swarm?

 

I know the Imps got nerfed by 30% or whatnot, but isn't the Glyph still a dps boost?

 

 

Thanks!

[Zagam 1,982]

The rationale is that the number of Imps got nerfed, so you receive less Imps per minute with the glyph, thus lowering your overall DPS.  It's also detrimental to your 2pc because without the constant flow of Imps, you won't have as many Molten Core procs thus lowering your 2pc uptime.

[Soulzar 42]

 

Ooooo!  And I just had a thought.  Pre-pot > Soulfire for a 20% chance to do 20% more damage on your opener.  Sounds inticing.  I've come a long way since last tier fer shur:

 

That reminds me of this lol.  Lets just say my brain registered "Use Leap" a few seconds late.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF3Gx8ZWn8Q

[Zilthy 36]

Omaric:  A few questions for your approach.

 

1) Low haste:  How low are you running?  I cannot count on raid haste being available in my group, so I have to hard hit that cap.  Currently at around 5k for extra doom tick at 5.3k, trying to get an extra shadowflame tick doesn't seem worth it as I would have to actually gem some for haste as I cannot hit that by reforging alone, although I am considering bumping it up for extra fury generation, I have not decided on that yet.

 

2) Crit seems pretty close to where I am at, I might nudge mine up a *bit) but at around 27% crit (unbuffed) and 40% mastery (unbuffed)

 

The one big question is, are you fishing for soulfire procs in caster, then dumping fury with ToC in meta?

 

I have been playing around with that, but also something I read on mmo-champion, which is save molten core for big int procs, and dump fury with Soulfire in meta.  It really lowers meta uptime, but, it also can really increase the damage per fury spent.

 

Although, I still need a lot more practice at this playstyle too, get it ingrained so I can spend less time thinking about it.  That indecisiveness is a killer in the middle of a fight. :D

[Omaric 246]

That reminds me of this lol.  Lets just say my brain registered "Use Leap" a few seconds late.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF3Gx8ZWn8Q

 

LOL!  That music too.

 

 

Omaric:  A few questions for your approach.

 

1) Low haste:  How low are you running?  I cannot count on raid haste being available in my group, so I have to hard hit that cap.  Currently at around 5k for extra doom tick at 5.3k, trying to get an extra shadowflame tick doesn't seem worth it as I would have to actually gem some for haste as I cannot hit that by reforging alone, although I am considering bumping it up for extra fury generation, I have not decided on that yet.

 

2) Crit seems pretty close to where I am at, I might nudge mine up a *bit) but at around 27% crit (unbuffed) and 40% mastery (unbuffed)

 

The one big question is, are you fishing for soulfire procs in caster, then dumping fury with ToC in meta?

 

I have been playing around with that, but also something I read on mmo-champion, which is save molten core for big int procs, and dump fury with Soulfire in meta.  It really lowers meta uptime, but, it also can really increase the damage per fury spent.

 

Although, I still need a lot more practice at this playstyle too, get it ingrained so I can spend less time thinking about it.  That indecisiveness is a killer in the middle of a fight.

 

1) Haste is my bottom feeder stat right now.  I'm sitting at 4442.  To be honest I'm not even worrying about haste breakpoints.  It's so random how much haste I'll have at any given moment anyway.  Between berserking, bloodlust and the metagem my breakpoints can change dramatically.  Because I can snapshot them for over a minute with Doom I don't worry about having a set amount of haste constantly.

 

2) What is your mastery rating?  That should be your priority IMO.

 

As for how to do the dance with Soulfire, that's something I'm still working on.  I haven't done a lot of testing yet purely as Demonology during progression because Destruction is too good on certain fights and I tend to go with what I'm more comfortable with when it's crunch time.

 

Currently though, I'm using Soulfire both in and out of Meta.  Most of the fights I'm using Demonology on, there are a handful of adds to Doom.  In those cases I'm generally swimming in MC procs so it hasn't really been an issue.

[Zilthy 36]

LOL!  That music too.

 

 

 

1) Haste is my bottom feeder stat right now.  I'm sitting at 4442.  To be honest I'm not even worrying about haste breakpoints.  It's so random how much haste I'll have at any given moment anyway.  Between berserking, bloodlust and the metagem my breakpoints can change dramatically.  Because I can snapshot them for over a minute with Doom I don't worry about having a set amount of haste constantly.

 

2) What is your mastery rating?  That should be your priority IMO.

 

As for how to do the dance with Soulfire, that's something I'm still working on.  I haven't done a lot of testing yet purely as Demonology during progression because Destruction is too good on certain fights and I tend to go with what I'm more comfortable with when it's crunch time.

 

Currently though, I'm using Soulfire both in and out of Meta.  Most of the fights I'm using Demonology on, there are a handful of adds to Doom.  In those cases I'm generally swimming in MC procs so it hasn't really been an issue.

 

My mastery is priority, I've gemmed and reforged to mastery, was just toying around with the idea of a *little* bit more crit, but honestly, reforging will only make a differnce of 1% to 2% either way, so not really a big deal.

[Omaric 246]

Ah, you said 40% mastery and when I look at my armory it's showing 100%, so I thought you were skimping on it.

[Zilthy 36]

Ah, you said 40% mastery and when I look at my armory it's showing 100%, so I thought you were skimping on it.

 

Ah, that's in demo, in dest > 100%

 

And apparently I was buffed when I looked, unbuffed demo 34% / 102% unbuffed dest 102%.  *shrug*

 

I can see why that would look like skimping though.... but, skimping that much would just plain be silly. :D

[Omaric 246]

Doh!!!  Right, I logged as Destruction.  I'm having a derpy morning.  Damn you Thursday night karaoke!!!

[Juloroh 0]

1)With the nerf to UVLS trinket for Demonology Warlock, how would you establish the new list :

PBoI>KTT>UVLS (just an example)....

 

2)I have breath 530 , UVLS 530 and Bindings 561, which combnation i should choose

[Omaric 246]

1) PBI >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BB/KTT (BB Doom snapshotting would be insane, but constant KTT damage is great)

 

I have Doom's critting for over 600k, that's a pretty good chunk of damage if using KTT.  Just get whatever is higher ilvl IMO.

 

2) Bindings and Breath if you aren't lucky with UVLS.  UVLS isn't a crap trinket yet.

[Uzern 1]

The rationale is that the number of Imps got nerfed, so you receive less Imps per minute with the glyph, thus lowering your overall DPS.  It's also detrimental to your 2pc because without the constant flow of Imps, you won't have as many Molten Core procs thus lowering your 2pc uptime.

 

Thanks Zagam.

 

Seems like each spec has had one major glyph that can improve DPS. 

 

UA for Affliction, Imp Swarm for Demonology, and (sometimes) Havoc for Destruction.

 

Oh well, guess its loss can provide a boost to self-heals. 

Edited October 12, 2013 by Uzern

[Juloroh 0]

1) PBI >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BB/KTT (BB Doom snapshotting would be insane, but constant KTT damage is great)

 

I have Doom's critting for over 600k, that's a pretty good chunk of damage if using KTT.  Just get whatever is higher ilvl IMO.

 

2) Bindings and Breath if you aren't lucky with UVLS.  UVLS isn't a crap trinket yet.

Fine, i use UVLS + PBI combo since they work well together(UVLS giving 100% crit doom ad PBI giving an 8% increase in criticl strike damage)...

Now, for the opener, do you delay dark soul activation?How do you behave in the first 20 second window of Dark Soul if you don't(or if you do) delay?

SOulf fire pre-pull worth it?

[Zilthy 36]

Fine, i use UVLS + PBI combo since they work well together(UVLS giving 100% crit doom ad PBI giving an 8% increase in criticl strike damage)...

Now, for the opener, do you delay dark soul activation?How do you behave in the first 20 second window of Dark Soul if you don't(or if you do) delay?

SOulf fire pre-pull worth it?

 

I would not pre-cast soulfire when using UVLS, too much chance of the crit proc happening too early.

 

With or without UVLS, I don't delay dark soul, it happens pretty soon in the opener.

[Omaric 246]

Fine, i use UVLS + PBI combo since they work well together(UVLS giving 100% crit doom ad PBI giving an 8% increase in criticl strike damage)...

Now, for the opener, do you delay dark soul activation?How do you behave in the first 20 second window of Dark Soul if you don't(or if you do) delay?

SOulf fire pre-pull worth it?

 

As Zilthy said, I wouldn't pre-cast a Soulfire on the off chance that UVLS procs before you have enough DF to do anything meaningful.

 

As for Dark Soul, my opener now looks like this for a fight with 3-4 targets:

 

pre-pot/Soulfire > Corruption all the things > HoG > Dark Soul/Berserking > HoG > Meta > Doom all the things

 

For single-target:

 

pre-pot/Soulfire > HoG > Corruption > Dark Soul/Berserking > HoG > Meta > Doom

 

Keep in mind this is without using a UVLS.  If you're seeing good results with the UVLS feel free to keep it, but I've dropped it in favor of Cha'ye's until I find something better so I have a more consistent playstyle (and so I can pre-Soulfire like a boss).

[Zilthy 36]

My opener's are very similar to Omaric's, and also I am not using UVLS currently.

 

I actually swapped my UVLS out and I am using the Volatile Talisman *gag* but, my UVLS was LFR version, and I find that I am getting a lot more mileage out of getting good doom snapshots than trying to rely on the very haphazard UVLS procs I was getting.

 

And no, Volatile Talisman is not my preference, but I still have *yet* to get another trinket to replace it. Other than PBI (Which thankfully I got right away) there is very little trinket love going on for this warlock. At this point, I would consider Yulon's Bite for the int increase, but at least the haste from talisman is a useful proc.

[Omaric 246]

Eeewwwwwwwwwww....

[juribe 1]

So I haven't looked into Demo much this tier, the UVLS and Imp nerf broke my heart too much. For stat prio, is it Mastery > Crit > Haste? I assumed a haste breakpoint would be worthwhile, but understand Omaric's reason for not doing so.

 

Working on Heroic Thok this week, and I'm toying with the idea of switching back for all the ToC and whatnot.

[Omaric 246]

I still dig the stat priorities you laid out, but overall I don't think it's a big deal for Demo as long as mastery is your go-to.

 

Good luck though if you're trying out Demonology again.  The opener is a little bit more shaky now if you've grown out of T15 2-piece and with the change to Wild Imps/Imp Swarm.  You can still pull mean numbers as Demonology.

 

That said, the other 2 specs still perform admirably on Thok if your raid makes good use of Devo aura and if you save your Unending Resolve for an opportune time.  Those aside, you can still squeek in spells pretty well with practice between the interrupts.

[WildcatTM 0]

So I like the mastery/haste built. But I'm having an issue understanding the recommended haste ratings. I have normal PBI 2/2. The haste you need -- I.e. 13772 -- is that before or after the trinket has been equipped?

[Lockybalboa 618]

[WildcatTM 0]

Thanks, Lockybalboa.  I'm less confused.  Honestly, when it comes to the math portion, I might as well be handicap.

 

So, at the end of the day, my character sheet should say 12773 without the trinket and 13737 with.  Is that correct?  I assume this is all moot since AMR already caluates this, right?

Edited October 24, 2013 by WildcatTM

[Zagam 1,982]

Not sure AMR has it built in, but it's never too tricky to check yourself in the manner you described.  Your Haste level WITH the trinket should be at your Haste cap.  That chart simply tells you what you need WITHOUT the trinket to get to your observed, desired Haste.  If you want 13737 Haste as Demo with the 561 version, then you'd need 12723 Haste rating.

[Zilthy 36]

AMR seems to be calculating correctly with PBI.

[Kazistrasz 216]

AMR occasionally calculates one point off. If it puts you exactly at the haste threshold with PBI equipped, unequip it and re-calculate using the value from the table.