5.4 Demonology Tips and Quirks

[WildcatTM 0]

Ah. Thank you all. My DPS was just a tad off this week. Looks like the issue was my misunderstanding of the math.

[Zagam 1,982]

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/f6yiew8lxuxziuob/details/8/?s=12081&e=12285

 

Went back Demo for Thok and Klaxxi.  #2 and #3 parses on normal, respectively.  I'll write up about how I've changed things including Meta weaving, pre-casting Soul Fire, etc.

[Juloroh 0]

One question about Doomguard usage since 5.4 , Zagam, since you always used it at the pull before 5.4( dunno if it's still the case) :

-Hitting the 25 % execute phase with 1000 demonic fury and 2 charges of dark soul and your T16 2PC proc, making sure the doomguard lasts for it's entire 40 sec with dark soul always up and making sure of maintaining fiery wrath 100 % uptime( yeah , i know RNG)...Do you think it's worth it?

[Zagam 1,982]

I still don't think the Doom/Terrorguard is worth any more at the end of a fight than it could be at the beginning.  All the buffs you have running live at the start overcompensate for the 20% bonus you get in execute for him.  Regardless, he's a very lackluster CD that really shouldn't be the focal point of optimization.  One well timed Chaos Bolt or two well timed Soul Fires can cover his entire contribution over a minute.

[JvChequer 43]

I still don't think the Doom/Terrorguard is worth any more at the end of a fight than it could be at the beginning.  All the buffs you have running live at the start overcompensate for the 20% bonus you get in execute for him.  Regardless, he's a very lackluster CD that really shouldn't be the focal point of optimization.  One well timed Chaos Bolt or two well timed Soul Fires can cover his entire contribution over a minute.

I Think on Garrosh worth it since it's kinda crazy the last phase even on normal Mode.

It's the only fight I can think about it.

[Zagam 1,982]

Should be able to use Doomguard twice against Garrosh if it's needed.  If you're killing him in less than 10 minutes, your group doesn't need that extra 1.5M damage anyways.

[JvChequer 43]

Should be able to use Doomguard twice against Garrosh if it's needed.  If you're killing him in less than 10 minutes, your group doesn't need that extra 1.5M damage anyways.

 

Garrosh in more than 10min it's a really bad kill.

[bshwap 0]

While running lfr to practice demo today I found something interesting on paragons.  Our mastery seems to be affecting the scorpion suit if you use it while in meta form just like mr. ambershaper's suits did in heart of fear. I always forget to resume logging when I die, but luckily I had an LFR all-star in my group!

 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-a3stpas30naordns/sum/damageDone/?s=2473&e=3077

 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-a3stpas30naordns/details/92/?s=2473&e=3077

 

Is the scorpion's scaling this strong (at 568 ilvl) or is this a new gem? TBH in normal I didn't even know you could click the guys for buffs until after my group killed garrosh for the 5th or 6th time so all this was surprising to say the least.

[Zagam 1,982]

Garrosh in more than 10min it's a really bad kill.

Some groups might lack enough DPS to kill him over 10 minutes.  A kill is a kill regardless of the DPS.  Garrosh isn't a DPS check anyways.  Could also be a tip for Heroic mode.

 

While running lfr to practice demo today I found something interesting on paragons.  Our mastery seems to be affecting the scorpion suit if you use it while in meta form just like mr. ambershaper's suits did in heart of fear. I always forget to resume logging when I die, but luckily I had an LFR all-star in my group!

 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-a3stpas30naordns/sum/damageDone/?s=2473&e=3077

 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-a3stpas30naordns/details/92/?s=2473&e=3077

 

Is the scorpion's scaling this strong (at 568 ilvl) or is this a new gem? TBH in normal I didn't even know you could click the guys for buffs until after my group killed garrosh for the 5th or 6th time so all this was surprising to say the least.

Yup, your achievement list will show that you'll need to become three of your potential Paragons for the achievement "Now We are Paragon."  Interesting find that the Mastery affects the scorpion as if you were in some psuedo Metamorphosis, at least based on your log.  I'll have to test that tonight or this week.  Thanks for the find!

[Kazistrasz 216]

Some groups might lack enough DPS to kill him over 10 minutes.  A kill is a kill regardless of the DPS.  Garrosh isn't a DPS check anyways.  Could also be a tip for Heroic mode.

 

Yup, your achievement list will show that you'll need to become three of your potential Paragons for the achievement "Now We are Paragon."  Interesting find that the Mastery affects the scorpion as if you were in some psuedo Metamorphosis, at least based on your log.  I'll have to test that tonight or this week.  Thanks for the find!

 

My guild has pretty good DPS (not amazing, but good for a guild that hasn't killed Garrosh). Even with this, our first kill took twelve minutes last week. The end was rough, sure, but we killed the boss and got loot and ended the night two-and-a-half hours early.

[Djargo 4]

Just tried picking up Demo again for fun while clearing up to progress bosses (we are 10/13hc atm) And oh wow its not going to well so far on these silly dummys. I haven't even touched demo since the imp nerf, so i got a few questions for any1 who might have tried it in good gear (Zagam pls)

 

Is 8094 still the haste breakpoint to go for?

How do you manage to keep fury for meta in the opener without t15 2p and do u try to proc 2set?

[Omaric 246]

Haste depends on your off-spec.  If it's Affliction you'll want to shoot for at least 8094, but if it's Destruction it's mainly up to you.

 

Personally I go Mastery > Crit >>> Haste because of the way I can manipulate my haste levels as a Troll and with the meta gem.

 

As for your opener, it's tricky.  You basically can't stay in Meta full time in your opener anymore, so you have to accept that and just continue on with your rotation while sneaking in as much Meta uptime as possible.  You should always try to proc your T16 2-pc by winding up a Soulfire right after you potion (and about 1-2 seconds before pull).

[PhilColins 9]

I never seem to have enough fury to maintain staying in meta while AoE'ing. If adds are about to come out and I've popped MV + Meta + IA, if they aren't going to live long then I drop CW x2, what's my next move? If I spam VR or ToC then I'm going to drop outta meta super fast; but I don't want to just stand there.

 

Any suggestions?

[Kazistrasz 216]

If I have both charges for HoG up, my first move is to drop one on the adds to get some Fury incoming. Then, I pop everything and lay down the AoE. Make sure you use Carrion Swarm as well. I don't use CW at the start. Use CW when you see there are a bunch of low-HP adds that it could possibly/probably kill. Every killing blow in meta is +100 Fury. You can actually use CW on a lot of low-HP adds to generate fury.

[PhilColins 9]

How do you guys feel about the haste break points? Been talking to a few different demo locks and some are in favor of the 13k bp but others like the 8k. Fury starved is a play style thing so if that's the case then I'd want more haste for Shadowflame and Corr to yield more fury. It seems that it's a general consensus that managing HoG and Shadowflame damage is what make a good demo lock great.

Comments? I'm really trying to work demo out right.

Thanks.

[Omaric 246]

HoG is definitely a core mechanic that separates the good and bad Demo warlocks out there, but the biggest thing is managing DF for procs.  It's easy to be like, "Hey, I have 500 DF saved up and my KTT proc'd, HERE WE GOOOOOO!!"  Then 20 seconds later you've only climbed back up to 200 DF, but now DS is off CD and PBI is currently active and you don't have the DF required to go the distance.

 

That, to me, is really what makes or breaks a good Demo player.

[PhilColins 9]

Do you typically save Molten Core procs for meta or do you use it outside meta a lot also to generate fury. I'm finding myself balancing about 40% outside meta and 60% inside meta.

[Omaric 246]

I don't generally save them *all*, but that is one area of my Demo play that probably needs the most work.  It's nice to be able to proc 20% more damage for 10 seconds without having to lose DF for it.

[Oldtrout 7]

Even without procs, if I have enough (4+) I'll usually cast soulfires between hog casts to try and get a proc before I go meta to update corruption. I'll also definitely start trying to bait it if I know ds / pbi are off cooldown, as it can sometimes take too long to come out if I wait until after they're up.

There really are so fewer "rights" and "wrongs" with demo than the other 2 specs that it's harder to give definitive answers on how to do things, especially now with the extra mechanics added by the tier bonuses. I imagine most people will still be learning how best to play it by the end of the tier (sign of a healthy spec), especially since there seems to be so few of us at the moment.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Oldtrout

[Zagam 1,982]

No reason to play Demonology right now unless you absolutely love it and don't care about not optimizing your DPS on heroics.  Don't get me wrong, I think it's known that I'm a Demonology Warlock at heart.  Demo is too much effort for too little of a reward.  Demonology is very reactionary to RNG.  That 2pc bonus is incredible when it procs.  Reacting to that proc and considering the DF and trinket procs that may or may not be coming up is really fun...sometimes. 

[Oldtrout 7]

I played it for a while on our Dark Shaman progress and it was doing pretty well. We were trying a dodgy tactic because of really bad group setup which involved tanking one boss inside, but also swapping tanks at regular intervals. This meant I was able to follow the outside tank to the door and get doom up on the other boss which added more damage than I'd have been able to get as destro. AoE on the slimes was a little riskier but the actual time it took to get them down seemed quicker than when I FnB.

 

I absolutely hate affliction. Destruction gets a bit stale after playing it exclusively for long periods. MoP Demonology is the best spec I've ever played on any class, so even if my dps takes a slight dip I'm gonna be playing it more once we're past difficult progress kills.

[juribe 1]

i've heard rumors that Demo is still really strong if you ignore ToC altogether unless it's an AOE situation and you're proccing the 4pc. single target, ignore ToC and only jump into Meta for Soulfires. Haven't tested this, but it sounds weird.

[PhilColins 9]

No reason to play Demonology right now unless you absolutely love it and don't care about not optimizing your DPS on heroics.

I'll still run destro for progression kills but it's so boring to me on farm bosses which is 11 of the 14. I'm trying to make the game exciting again and playing demo is definitely doing that.

Destruction gets a bit stale after playing it exclusively for long periods. MoP Demonology is the best spec I've ever played on any class, so even if my dps takes a slight dip I'm gonna be playing it more once we're past difficult progress kills.

I completely agree with this.

[Liquidsteel 279]

Demo is still extremely competitive, and to be honest there are a few fights it can crush on.

 

Take IJ and Malkorok, for example. There is a lot of unavoidable movement either dodging borer drills/mines/sawblades or knockup/smash/breath/soaking.

 

Demo is way more mobile in this regard.

 

I did around 360k on IJ hc this week in 568 ilvl, the 577 demo did around 390k, and the two destro came in around 350k and 310k each, with the lower destro being same ilvl as me.

 

On Malkorok nobody touches the adds, we let the tank and passive cleave take care of them, and again demo is pretty strong on this fight.

 

When you take away stuff like havoc chaos bolts for padding or factor in 1M overkill from shadowburn crits on low hp adds, demo is actually really, really good.

[Zagam 1,982]

You're comparing different players as a medium to gauge DPS.  I did 376k to Heroic IJ as Destruction at 573.  Most of the time, these parses, on an individual basis, can be separated by RNG or player skill/knowledge of spec.  All you've found is what has been said for a while...all the specs are fine.  It's just easily argued that Destruction provides the largest reward for the least amount of effort.