5.4 Demonology Tips and Quirks

[Liquidsteel 279]

Yeah I should clarify 574 KTT > 561 BBoY. I only used the BBoY in my high haste build in order to reach the haste cap without having to fully regem. Having switched out a few haste items I can't go above 13k without gemming so I'm going to stick to 8097 until Garrosh is dead purely from a destro standpoint. In the end though hitting the breakpoint isn't exactly massive, just going Mastery > Haste is still pretty good. 

 

I think we're all in agreement that ToCing during procs is the best course of action after fishing for a 2 piece proc. I'm also keen to use the Wrathguard a bit as I haven't seen his face in quite a while.

 

Regarding your big Dark Soul + PBI dump (not the opening one which is sketchy), how do you go about that? I personally just burn through all my fury/MC procs asap, though there are occasions where I finish dumping with time left on Dark Soul. My gut feeling tells me that this is ok, I can often fire off a few more soulfires then jump back in and spam ToC till procs fall off. I don't think ToCing more just to stay in Meta the whole time would be beneficial.

[Liquidsteel 279]

Also managed to find a quote from Zinnin regarding Soul Fire useage and its relationship with Fury spending/gain.

 

I'll just paste it here as he brings up some decent points which I have tried to follow the past couple weeks where I played Demo. He's responding to someone saying that the DPET of Meta Soulfire does not outweigh its value as a fury generator.

 

"This is actually not true. So, Soul Fire has a funny relation ship with fury. Because of the fact it costs so much more fury then ToC (and that ToC doesn't scale with haste) using Soul Fire in Meta means that your Meta uptime will go down, this also means that your time spent gaining fury goes up. It comes out that spending Soul Fires in meta is actually almost as much fury as spending them in caster form. Spending them in caster form is still going to be more fury in the short term, but in the long term it really isn't a huge change to not spend them. 

Anyways, I made a bunch of people tonight play random specs on a dummy and spent a few hours going at it myself. From personal testing I have found that using Soul Fires during cooldowns (and possibly sacrificing 2pc uptime) is still better then baiting 2pc procs and gaining 2pc uptime without other CDs or procs up. I've done many runs at the dummies and my numbers have always been pretty consistent, so if you are seeing wild swings you probally aren't timing fury usage or cooldowns 100% correctly yet. 

Personally I am back to a pre-UVLS mentality where you need to identify which procs and cooldowns are best to spend fury, how much fury those procs are going to take, and how often they will be up and go from there. For instance, I am running Cha-Yes, Black Blood, and have DS. Under normal conditions I don't have enough fury to dump into each of those so I cut the weakest out (Cha-Yes) and focus on spending fury on only DS and Black Blood. MC procs are put into those same cooldowns/procs. 

The other thing I took from my random testing out of several players from many different guilds is I am fairly certain that people are not playing Demo correctly and need to just get used to the 'new' fury restrictions. Affliction and Destruction numbers were very static across the board, as ilvl went up so did the numbers for both of those specs. When people played Demo however, the numbers fluxuate quite a bit."

Edited December 3, 2013 by Liquidsteel

[Zagam 1,982]

I agree with him on a few points:

 

1) most people don't know how to min-max Demo without UVLS.  We're over a year separated from what it used to be, and Affliction was king then, so no one spent time worrying about it.  He basically stated what I did in that you must worry about procs much like you do with Destruction and Chaos Bolt.

 

2) his discussion on Soul Fire use makes sense.  If you dump Soul Fires for more damage, you can go back to caster form and rebuild it.  He is, however, wrong in that ToC DOES scale with Haste in that it lowers the GCD allowing for more uses.  It doesn't scale the same way as Soul Fire, but Haste DOES benefit ToC.  You can notice it immediately if you go from 12% Haste to 35% Haste, trust me.

 

3) his point on which procs to use are based on his current trinket situation.  Given that I have H PBI and H KTT, both procs are worthy of using on Metamorphosis.  However, there comes a point where you must react according to certain timers, namely how long you have until Dark Soul is coming back up.  30% Mastery is worth 90% damage in Metamorphosis with Dark Soul up, so you do NOT want to do anything but be in Metamorphosis for that entire duration.  If you have a KTT Intellect proc go live with Dark Soul 15 seconds out, I would spend that period of time building DF without going into Metamorphosis because DS > KTT proc.  However, if KTT procs 5 seconds before, I'll start the Meta train and use the 5 second overlap to reapply Doom because DS + KTT proc Doom = booya

 

The TL;DR of this is that Soul Fire in Meta must be treated like Chaos Bolt for Destruction.  Demo has the added complication that is Affliction-esque in that it must snapshot Doom as powerful as it can be.  So Demo is essentially a blend of Destruction's Chaos Bolt manipulation and Affliction's DoT manipulation.  Demo's only other quirk is figuring out the Haste level you're comfortable with in terms of DoTs and Imp generation.  I chose 12407 for my soft-cap because of how it interacts with various spells during TR, Bloodlust, Berserking, and random points of fights in between.  It's also important for my Imp generation to sustain me.  Basically, with some spreadsheet work, I calcluated this as the sweet spot to never be without a Molten Core proc under normal rotation use (don't spam it and expect it to always be there).  It also adds a great deal of DF generation via Corruption, Shadowflame, Wrathguard, and my Wild Imps. 

[PhilColins 9]

I agree on SF a bit, but on the other hand you're discounting possible 20% buffed Chaos Wave procs on ToC as well as being able to save MC charges for DF generation.

You're right I did not consider the RNG of CW proccing. Perhaps it would be better to fish for 2pc then pop into Meta to take advantage of the 20% increased damage. Looks like I'll be experimenting tonight some more. I wonder if I should keep the 7-9 stacks of MC when PBI + DS are about to come off CD. The unloading of SF in Meta just does so much damage throughout those 20 seconds. Gotta have 800 fury otherwise you come outta Meta too soon (unless Imp Swarm is up). Those extra buffed imps really bring the heat.

[Liquidsteel 279]

Yeah Zagam, his quote was from a while back where he had 2x RPPM trinkets. With PBI basically lining up with dark soul, the only proc you need to worry about is KTT which is where you should also theoretically dump some soul fires.

 

As you said, the logical exception being when you know stuff is coming off cooldown in 15 seconds.

 

This is what draws me to Demo and Destro and in general the whole warlock class right now. The fact that it allows you such scope in your play to actually be planning ahead way in advance just adds so much depth that you can't find elsewhere. 

Edited December 3, 2013 by Liquidsteel

[Zagam 1,982]

Today is the first day in 3 months I've gotten a Warlock boner.  I'm so fucking excited to go home and play my class again.  No more spam Incinerate and use Chaos Bolt when a weakaura lights up.  Farm Tuesdays are boring as hell, but not when you feel like you're playing a new game all over again!  I even had my girl log in, change out gems, change my reforge, and swap a talent around so I can be ready as soon as I get home.  TEN MORE MINUTES TO QUITTING TIME

[Liquidsteel 279]

Zag if by any chance you streamed your raid and had it save to your past broadcasts it would be much appreciated.

[Omaric 246]

Zag if by any chance you streamed your raid and had it save to your past broadcasts it would be much appreciated.

 

Liquid if by any chance you're the bad guy from Terminator 2........ are we cool?  I haven't seen the boy, just don't kill meh.

[Liquidsteel 279]

Liquid if by any chance you're the bad guy from Terminator 2........ are we cool?  I haven't seen the boy, just don't kill meh.

To be honest I haven't decided what I'm going to do with you yet so stay put and don't move... I'll be back.

[Omaric 246]

 

Edit: Also, can't believe I missed the Arnold reference the first time around.  Well played!

[PhilColins 9]

Warlock boner for days. Been awhile since I've done some seriously math modeling. Maybe 5 years since senior year at Cleveland State.

[Zagam 1,982]

Well I did 417k to Protectors without padding (no Doom on Rook for a long time, no Corruption on off-targets) because of heavy raid cleaving.  #87 on Protectors and #148 on Sha of Pride.  I think I'm playing well (a little out of practice) but I can see where Destruction just beasts some mechanics.  I did open to like 3.0m on Galakras trash with Shadowflame being mega buffed. 

 

Sitting on IJ, going to stay Demo for the night for comparative view.  Demonology is fine, but it's as I suspected that Destruction just pushes it real good.  I'll get a good single target feel on Malkorok.

[Zagam 1,982]

377k single target on Malkorok (small cleaving).  I got some unlucky shit and had to battle res.  I got a double trinket proc during execution...that was baller.  Logs of tonight here: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-jh6xpjsygr531w3d/sum/damageDone/

 

I sat out Iron Juggz and Dark Shamans.  I died instantly on Norushen as well.  The rest should be ready for the pickens.  You can tell I'm rusty.  I got to pad on Nazgrim which explains my 2.5M opener...dat Shadowflame.  Rank 12 baby! 

[PhilColins 9]

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-p83w7a6x7663qbvu/

 

^^ for Norushen and Shamans (I died in shamans)

 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-qkyvpgpp5rfhvpdo/

 

^^ for all the other bosses up to Malk

 

 

How are you opening up so hard Zag? LOL Glyph Shadow Bolt? How are ours different? Are you pulling Naz with the adds?

 

Went with the 8k haste, didn't feel as Fury starved as I remember, probably because I'm getting used to the feel. That Gal was such garbage, I hate being assigned to kill the Grunt when I'm trying to rank! LOL

 

I dropped Imp Swarm glyph on Nazgrim and I had more MC proc's than what to do with.

 

Tell me how I'm bad.

Edited December 4, 2013 by PhilColins

[Zagam 1,982]

Nazgrim was with the adds, yes.  Are you talking about my basic opener?  It doesn't open as hard as Destruction and Affliction, but the beauty is its sustained.  On Malkorok, both Destruction Warlocks were ahead of me until after the first Blood Frenzy phase.  I caught up and passed them never to look back.

 

Shadow Bolt glyph makes it so Shadow Bolt hits two times instead of one in regards to RPPM spell hits.  Since KTT works on RPPM on spell hit and PBI works with 15% chance on spell hit to proc, creating more hits per spell is always beneficial.  I'm testing a magic Haste value that I talked to some other rockstar Warlocks who agreed after I justified it to them.  I want to test it out some more before I tell others. 

 

I got beat on Galakras because lol Shadowburn.  But when Galakras landed, the only person that beat me on Gal damage was a beast Combat Rogue and the Brewmaster tank with all his vengeance.  Demonology is quite powerful on control burst WITHOUT Imp Swarm. 

 

I'm going to run Flex this weekend and test out more DPS stuff when I can pad like a mofo.  I'm going to sip some whiskey and hyperanalyze me some of my logs while watching college football.  I'll report my findings Sunday in my Mumble Warlock chat. 

[PhilColins 9]

I saw you say 2.5M and I'm thinking HOW because I forget guilds pull the boss with the adds instead of without.

What's this magic haste value of yours? I'm curious to try it out as well.

Edited December 4, 2013 by PhilColins

[Zagam 1,982]

I'm not giving it out (and it's not on my Armory) because I need to verify if it actually works for the intent I have.  Too many people follow what I do then have issues with it and come back asking more questions.  It's a very personal Haste level set for me on my own with various things around me in mind.  I saw favorable responses from my parses, but I haven't dived into them yet.  I'm in the midst of trying to theorycraft the clunk out of the spec.

[Calenthaurin 1]

Hi :)

 

My co-raider hunter and myself have trouble with pet despawning on bosses like immerseus (HC), Dark Shaman (N), Tho (N).

 

Is it worth to go with Grim. of Sac for those??

[Lockybalboa 618]

Hi

 

My co-raider hunter and myself have trouble with pet despawning on bosses like immerseus (HC), Dark Shaman (N), Tho (N).

 

Is it worth to go with Grim. of Sac for those??

 

 

I don't know what you're doing with your pets but you're doing it wrong. I've never had an issue with pet despawn, my three hunter friends havnent, my 20+ warlocks on my RID havent.

[Omaric 246]

Because they're despawning randomly or because they're too far away?

 

Consider using an Imp for Thok.  Otherwise I'd make an easy keybind, or a macro that is tied to another spell, that makes your pet attack your current target to keep it in range.

[Zagam 1,982]

Hi

 

My co-raider hunter and myself have trouble with pet despawning on bosses like immerseus (HC), Dark Shaman (N), Tho (N).

 

Is it worth to go with Grim. of Sac for those??

No Grim of Sac for Demo.  You just need to make sure your pets aren't too far from you.  They have a long leash, but if you're standing in front of Immerseus, he will default to stand behind him with his pet AI.  On Dark Shamans, if you're separating them and your Felguard/Wrathguard runs up the hill while you stay down below, he will despawn.  Keep your pets in check.

[Omaric 246]

It's worth mentioning that the reason you want to hold onto your pets is that they provide you with Demonic Fury.  Using GoSac doesn't give you DF generation, and because DF is a tad harder to come by now without UVLS, it's a big deal.

[Calenthaurin 1]

No Grim of Sac for Demo.  You just need to make sure your pets aren't too far from you.  They have a long leash, but if you're standing in front of Immerseus, he will default to stand behind him with his pet AI.  On Dark Shamans, if you're separating them and your Felguard/Wrathguard runs up the hill while you stay down below, he will despawn.  Keep your pets in check.

 

Thks for the quick answer:)

Seems pet dies on Dark Shaman from random stuff (he), and for immerseus and thok they dispawn due to the leash... on Thok keeping an eye on the imp is easy (btw is he interrupted by Thok ?:p)

However, For Immerseus, pet tend to run in the boss' back...and despawn....so i don't attack boss with pet then ??? (Wrathguard btw, for aoe)

[Omaric 246]

Imp ignores the interrupts on Thok.

 

For Immerseus, just don't be all the way to the wall.  Your pet shouldn't despawn if you're halfway to the boss from the wall or closer.

[Maevisten 0]

I find that I will most likely range my wrathguard on Galakras most fights because I demonic leap from the towers.  Resummoning is still faster than taking the stairs though.  :)