5.4 Demonology Tips and Quirks

[PhilColins 9]

How are you guys approaching Thok? Just build fury until like 10 stacks of Acceleration then jump into Meta and dump via ToC?

 

Are you guys running KJC to SB during chase phase? I'm thinking MV might be better for bats but I don't know if it's worth it to take the CD for 15 seconds of DPS fame.

Edited December 5, 2013 by PhilColins

[PhilColins 9]

Spoils was a lot of fun as Demo. First time around with it and I managed to rank 16th. Seems that fight is all about building fury as high as around 900ish and blowing it via IA + ToC spam. Pray you get a lot of CW proc's. Then again, this could be the way we do it and different from other guilds.

[Liquidsteel 279]

No need to take KJC on thok. No reason to ever take it tbh. Fel flame is just as good except it forces a few extra life taps compared to SB. Make sure you get to stand in melee for the bats and use your second AD. Drop 2x HoG then immo and spam ToC.

[Zagam 1,982]

How are you guys approaching Thok? Just build fury until like 10 stacks of Acceleration then jump into Meta and dump via ToC?

 

Are you guys running KJC to SB during chase phase? I'm thinking MV might be better for bats but I don't know if it's worth it to take the CD for 15 seconds of DPS fame.

We didn't do Thok because 2 healers weren't online, so we did Siegecrafter progression instead.  Your strategy on Thok is going to be dependent on your group's CD usage.  Personally, our group starts our Devotion Aura train (5 of them) around 16 stacks, so I pop Unending Resolve at 12 stacks and get 26 seconds of free casting.  That means I do my best to do as much damage as possible up until 12 stacks and then let loose regardless of Meta or not.

 

KJC is worthless.  With DF, you can cast ToC while moving.  Otherwise, use Fel Flame.  No need for MF for bats, just time a Wrathguard/double Felguard, 2x HoG, and Immo Aura.  Then spam ToC fishing for Chaos Wave procs.  You won't even need to use UR as Demo whereas for Destro, you need to.

 

Spoils was a lot of fun as Demo. First time around with it and I managed to rank 16th. Seems that fight is all about building fury as high as around 900ish and blowing it via IA + ToC spam. Pray you get a lot of CW proc's. Then again, this could be the way we do it and different from other guilds.

On Heroic?  I think I ranked 34th at 236k, but our group only pulls 2 larges, 5 mediums, and 4 smalls, so not a lot of cleaving opportunity.  For me, it was about spamming ToC on Sparks and popping in and out of Meta to blow things up (Anima Golem, large adds, etc).

 

No need to take KJC on thok. No reason to ever take it tbh. Fel flame is just as good except it forces a few extra life taps compared to SB. Make sure you get to stand in melee for the bats and use your second AD. Drop 2x HoG then immo and spam ToC.

Agreed.  For better value, take Glyph of Life Tap, especially on this fight.  The absorption effect on healing taken in is easily better than losing HP.

[PhilColins 9]

Yeah I've been playing around with MV vs AD for Thok and can't see much of a difference in bat damage. Although I suspect the extra DS usage outweighs MV as the fight goes on which makes sense. We have 3 Devo's so I usually use UR around 12-14 stacks because the interrupt is so fast that I have to have a perfectly times SB or SF. Possibly FF in between.

Yeah Spoils is on Heroic. I didn't cast SF in Meta at all that fight. Whenever I had CD's line up there were always at least 3 adds out so I just spread my Corruption herpes and popped into Meta and launched Immo + ToC spam. Our guild does the se box technique. Since the spark's die so fast I really oly time to get 2 or so ToC's off in time. This lets me focus the large add and Immo more. Basically whenever I went into Meta to ToC the sparks I had Immo running also.

[Kazistrasz 216]

AD becomes less valuable the longer the fight goes.

 

I don't know why, but I've seen a lot of people trying to say the opposite recently (though they're mostly people on lock alts in guild). It's so completely backwards. You get one extra DS per fight. That's a big boost on a 3-minute fight, but practically worthless on a 9-minute fight.

[Liquidsteel 279]

Well the main benefit of AD is that it allows you flexibility in your usage of dark soul. You can always align it with your Bindings proc. 

 

If it behaves and they line up, then you get to use a second charge in execute range which is also really nice. It's not just about it being an extra dark soul, IMO.

[Zagam 1,982]

It's going to come down to fights.  Purely min/maxing, I'd say...

 

Immerseus - MF because clearing adds is money and as the fight draws out, DPS requirement plummets

Protectors - AD because an extra CD is more beneficial than AoE nuking the small adds during Sun's DM

Norushen - AD because there is no AoE necessity

Sha of Pride - MF because it melts the adds and the adds are darn near the timer to MF

Galarkas - MF because you can save DS for the final push and MF melts adds super fast

Iron Juggz - AD because no AoE

Dark Shamans - MF because slimes

Nazgrim - AD because of execute burn

Malkorok - AD because no AoE

Spoils - AD for the large adds, nothing else matters

Thok - AD for extra CD, only AoE phase doesn't require MF

Siege - MF for the Crawler Mines that you deal with on the regular

Paragons - AD for extra CD

Garrosh - AD for extra CD and because AoE is in a non-important phase

 

Things will change based on group comp (might not need MF on Dark Shamans if you got 3 Elemental Shamans).  It really doesn't matter tremendously.  If your group is wiping to something, adjust your talents if it'll fix it.  Group suck on Thok bats?  Pop AD there.  The 90% buff to Shadowflame + Chaos Wave + Immo Aura trumps a 100% gain to Immolation Aura damage.  Having issues cleaving down adds on Spoils?  Take MF instead of AD and assist with cleave.  Pro players react to their environment and surroundings.  Adaptation is the best survival and progression skill.

[Roxzey 0]

So I have been playing around with Demonology (570 ilvl) and I personally find the 14k haste bp to be perfect for me. The fury generation is so fluid that I do not feel punished for DS coming off cooldown at poor times during the fight and it ruining my dps because of it.

 

At 14k haste, alot of times you can get good HoG procs and be able to extend your Shadowflame stack a large amount while also quickly gaining enough fury to dump your MC procs in meta form. This haste BP feels much more fluid than the 8097 BP and I prefer it.

 

That being said, what is everyone's thoughts on Demo Vs. Destruction once we get BiS? Some locks in my 25 man doubt how effective demo is currently.

[Zagam 1,982]

I play Destruction and Demonology almost perfectly.  Anything Demo can do in this tier, Destruction can do better.  That said, they are close enough that you won't be holding your raid back if you decide to play Demonology. 

 

I was using a special 12.7k Haste breakpoint and it was working flawlessly (multiple #1 parses).  The 8.1k and 14.8k breakpoints are only breakpoints under no special circumstances (Bloodlust, Tempus Repit, Berserking, etc) so I went with a special one that let me capture a huge burst while bringing my Demonic Calling spawn time to a point that ensured I'd constantly have MC charges.  I find that going to 14.8k Haste gives up too much Mastery.  Haste is favorable in a single target situation, but any time you have cleaving, Mastery wins out. 

 

Then again, it's up to your personal flavor.  If you enjoyed casting like you were on crack, then stick with it.  Dropping 2k Mastery for 2k Haste to hit 14.8k isn't going to ruin your DPS.

[Roxzey 0]

To reach the 14k Bp i have to drop around 3k mastery. How much do you think it will effect my Destro DPS?

 

How do you feel about Toxic Totem Heroic vs. normal BBOY for demo?

 

How do you think this relationship changes for 8k bp vs 14k bp?

 

Also why 12.7k haste? I know with lust, zerking, meta gem 12.4k is the shadowflame +11ticks break point. Why 12.7?

Edited December 9, 2013 by Roxzey

[Liquidsteel 279]

Unless you need the haste to hit a certain breakpoint you should use KTT. It still does a decent portion of your damage. I'll be switching it out for hc BBoY though as soon as I can get my hands on it, been lucky with coin rolls so far trinket wise so hopefully next week will continue the trend.

 

I would say for demo that you should just go Mastery > Haste > Crit. Grab a breakpoint if you're close to it but don't fret too much.

[Zagam 1,982]

While for Demonology, the change in stats will be minor, giving up Mastery for Haste as Destruction is painful.

[Liquidsteel 279]

But yeah as far as single target goes haste is the best stat. I really don't see there being anything wrong with losing mastery for haste when haste is such a potent single target stat.

[Roxzey 0]

See that's my problem. I would like to run the 14k haste BP, but I lose a bunch of mastery getting there and I dont think its worth it for my destruction offspec.

 

I also do belts on our Heroic Blackfuse progression (2% wipes..ugh) as Destro and wanna make sure that wont be compromised.

I have also wondered using the 14k haste BP with imp swarm and trying to use it on every belt.

[Liquidsteel 279]

While for Demonology, the change in stats will be minor, giving up Mastery for Haste as Destruction is painful.

 

Yes, but I'm assuming people would be reforging if they were to switch specs.

[Roxzey 0]

Do any of you have experience using Demo on Heroic Paragons or attempting Demo on siegecrafter belts?

 

I wonder how potent demo would be on Heroic Siegecrafter belts. I do them now as destro and being able to shadowburn crit for upwards of 2 mil really helps sometimes.

[Zagam 1,982]

No experience on either, but I can take applied knowledge and visualize it for what it's worth.

 

Belts as Demo seems like a horrible idea.  Demo really can't go without pets, but I think if you were able to properly generate DF, you could go onto the belt with full DF and dump Soul Fires and such to burst the weapons.  The problem is Doom is such an integral part of Demo's DPS that you wouldn't get a lot of use out of Doom if you applied it (1, 2 ticks maybe).  Demo also provides no mobility with Soul Fire, so that can hurt.  I don't get why Warlocks are being used for belts when they are so incredible against the boss and the bombs, but each group does their own thing.  If you're stuck doing belts, Destruction has to be the way to go for snap burst and the strong execute.

 

For Paragons, I can't imagine any spec being awful.  Demo provides snazzy numbers on the meters with cleaving, but kill target damage is more important than your overall DPS, regardless of what anyone says.  Doom on multiple targets gives more Imps, but that's generally it in terms of perks for Demo.  Destro provides some sick utility with healing and cleaving that actually increases single target damage. 

[Roxzey 0]

Im doing the belts because we never found people that could consistently live on the belts and also live inbetween belts. Its frustrating, but I much prefer belts to the main platform.

 

Destro really isnt even that great on the belts considering other classes, but I still hold my own very well and surpass alot of the "good" classes for belts.

 

I was just looking for a way to maybe get more out of the class on those fights instead of just blindly going destro and never looking back.

 

We will probably end up using some locks to soak aim on paragons and meta form has to come in handy for something like that along with our strong defensive cooldowns. I would imagine that having a large amount of fury on that fight will come close and maybe outdo destro burst when it comes time to blow up Iyyokuk.

 

Sadly youre right, you do lose out on destro emergency heals.

[Zagam 1,982]

So what you're dealing with is compensating for others' lack of skill, not lack of toolkits.  While you may not be the best class for the belts, it sounds like you're the best player in your group and are forced to do the job others can't do.  Tip of the hat to you, but that sucks. 

[Eddie 16]

Same reason I get stuck on the belts, and killing the Siege Engineer during Garrosh. No one else has the raid awareness to do it without dying.

[Omaric 246]

I haven't started work on Heroic Paragons yet, but Demo's potential there is really good.  I feel like Affliction is the black sheep spec for this fight honestly.  Multi-DoT'ing for Affliction is really just padding.  For Destruction, the actual positioning of the boss is more key, but if they're able to keep RoF down on at least 2 bugs a majority of the fight their focus target damage will increase.

 

Demo, even though some damage is padding with Doom, is going to be able to focus the kill target well.  They don't have to worry about positioning as much as Destruction.  Unfortunately the fight has a lot of mechanics going on and unless your Demo play is really solid you might not be able to get the most out of it.  I'd be interested to see how you pull it off Eddie. :)

[Liquidsteel 279]

For our first kill I was destro on the platform but we had attendance issues for a few weeks after that so I was on belt duty. I found Affliction with Archimonde's and GoSac to work out quite nicely. AD means you have a dark soul up for each belt which is really good, and you just put up a stack of huge dots and spam haunt with a few MG or FF casts in between.

[Roxzey 0]

Any idea how much damage you were doing per belt Shizwix? I am averaging around 6-7 mil give or take shadowburn crits. If you think I can get more than that per belt, I will totally try it out tonight. How was your damage off the belt considering this? I would imagine relatively low because you have to save DS charges for belts, where as destruction can merrily continue its rotation and also be very solid on mine aoe.

[Liquidsteel 279]

Pretty much the same tbh, ballpark of 6M.

 

My boss dps was non existent but on 25 man that wasn't an issue. I actually just afk'd between belt cycles to game trinket procs when I went up as we had like 3 out of the 10 people going up having never done it before so it was a bit sketchy.

 

I would find trying to get chaos bolt off to be pretty challenging when learning the belt.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Omaric