Helltooth Gargantuan Witch Doctor

[huntress 9]

Thanks again Deadset for a nice build.

Just started really playing with my WD and enjoying it.  

ATM, using Aquila's cuirass in the cube for armour, and CoE for jewellery.  Not using mask of jeram or tasker and theo yet.  

Haven't found "Henri’s Perquisition", despite putting 2k blood shards into Kadala and 800 DBs into the cube...frustrating as!  I found the furnace easier than this and it's rarer from a drop rate perspective.  

Best I've done so far is a 55, which I'm finding pretty easy once NG is up (I'm playing on console, so we get half PC damage until we get a NG), finishing with 7 and a half minutes to spare regularly.  I think a 60 is prolly my limit right now.  Only have 5 ancients, none of them with great RNG rolls (RNG hates me).  edit: no augments yet, they're a waste of time until I get better gear (RNG rolled ancients).

Enjoyable build though.

Thanks again.

Edited February 16, 2017 by huntress

[Warden 8]

4 hours ago, huntress said:

Best I've done so far is a 55, which I'm finding pretty easy once NG is up (I'm playing on console, so we get half PC damage until we get a NG),

What's "NG"?

[huntress 9]

9 hours ago, Warden said:

What's "NG"?

nephalem glory.  ON consoles, we do half damage compared to PCs (with the exact same char/skill/gear) UNTIL we pick up a NG and then we get double damage, making us on par with PC players.  This puts us at a massive disadvantage cos we have to fart ass around hunting down NG to keep damage up, and quite often, especially at higher grift levels, we have zero NG and thus half damage by the time we hit the RG.  That means the RG takes us twice as long to kill...with my DH, I hit the RG with 3 and a bit minutes to spare, and only finished with 6 seconds...I had no NG.  Starting a high level grift with no NG puts at as a HUGE disadvantage whilst we build up NG and double damage.  Probably at least 90 to 120 seconds behind PC players...monsters have the same health on consoles at torment level and above as per PCs...

 

edit: i cleared a 60 with my WD wth ease - 6 minutes to spare last night and also found a henris, although it's non ancient (current mojo is ancient) and the damage drop is reasonable, so I'll re-roll it until I get an ancient...

 

2nd edit: cos of the NG mess on consoles, we have to target the quick and easy monsters to get 10 kills to generate a NG, then break our kill streak, hit 10 again to get a 2nd NG and so on and so forth...worse, the game throws the NG 50 years behind our fricking character meaning we waste EVEN more time chasing it down...unlike PC players who can just happily ignore it, kill a bit of trash to get to an elite mob, kill elite mob and move on and rinse and repeat...console players are royally screwed by Blizzard.  This mechanic usally means a 3-4 grift difference on average between console and PC player grift limits.  Oh and density on consoles is worse than on PC too...even with the latest patches...

Edited February 17, 2017 by huntress

[Guest Hello]

Why not cube Homunculus instead of The Furnace and run Sacrifice: Provoke the Pack instead of Zombie Dogs? Would this not be higher damage after 3 stacks of Provoke the Pack?

[Warden 8]

On 2/16/2017 at 10:01 PM, huntress said:

nephalem glory.  ON consoles, we do half damage compared to PCs (with the exact same char/skill/gear) UNTIL we pick up a NG and then we get double damage, making us on par with PC players. 

Wow, I didn't know about that whole mess with consoles.  That sucks.  Thanks for explaining it.

[huntress 9]

On 2/19/2017 at 3:28 AM, Warden said:

Wow, I didn't know about that whole mess with consoles.  That sucks.  Thanks for explaining it.

worse, we have a smaller FoV (Field of view) than PC players, which hampers us seeing monsters until they're nearly on top of us.  and monster density in grifts on console is worse than on PC too, although the 1.15/1.16/1.17 patches have made it closer between the 2 formats.

[Kelpies 0]

My question is about Sacred Harvester, I just got an Ancient Legendary and would appreciate some input on best use of enchant given these stats:

* Socket from Ramaladni's Gift

* 1358-1731 Arcane Damage     * 900 Intelligence       * 8% Cooldown Reduction

* 149 Maximum Mana                * 22% Chance of Area Damage on Hit

I'm enjoying this build a lot - thanks for a great guide and all the helpful follow up!

 

 

 

[Guest Scandalz]

This is the worst build ever because you can't control your burst and nothing follows you because your pets stay behind. 

 

[Arkpit 101]

On 2017-03-17 at 11:18 PM, Guest Scandalz said:

This is the worst build ever because you can't control your burst and nothing follows you because your pets stay behind. 

Sorry to see you are not enjoying the build but I can admit that I'm no fan of the playstyle either since I can get quite frustrated with the Gargantuan AI to say the least.

However, it is one thing to call a build bad and not being able to enjoy it.

The trackrecord for the build speaks for itself, it's one of the most solid and powerful solobuilds for progression, especially in hardcore because of it's safe nature. You mention that you cannot control it's burts, this is half true because you re-summon gargs into where you want you burst to be but the cooldown is quite long so you go forward more slowly.

The build isn't a burst build but a slower and safer way to progress higher GRs due to the insane damage you can get your gargs to do when they finally swings at the right target. It's not a fast running speedbuild at all nor does it burst down packs every other pack but it was never designed for that either.

One of the tricks you can do without re-summoning gargs is to run past a pack with Spirit Walk if needed and most of the time the gargs will "pop up" next to you, which is giving you bit more control.

If you enjoy to burst down your packs quickly I recommend trying Jade for the big oneshots but with bit of build-up time or the alternative Arachyr Firebats build which is very nice aoe dmg with little rampup but quite squishy.

All-in-all, the Witch Doctor class was, and probably will never be, the one with the craziest burst dmg. The class simply might not be what you enjoy.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Arkpit

[Arkpit 101]

On 2017-03-06 at 9:05 PM, Kelpies said:

My question is about Sacred Harvester, I just got an Ancient Legendary and would appreciate some input on best use of enchant given these stats:

* Socket from Ramaladni's Gift

* 1358-1731 Arcane Damage     * 900 Intelligence       * 8% Cooldown Reduction

* 149 Maximum Mana                * 22% Chance of Area Damage on Hit

For me personally I don't find the CD the problem when you are going up at 70GR+ so I would reroll the CD for 10% extra dmg.

Actually, on the top of my head I can't recall if you can reroll the mana to %dmg but that would be the obvious one since this build never have mana issues.

It takes a while to kill things higher up so the CDs are usually up again when you need them sp the extra 10% dmg helps you progress a little faster.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Arkpit

[Kelpies 0]

On 3/20/2017 at 10:56 AM, Arkpit said:

For me personally I don't find the CD the problem when you are going up at 70GR+ so I would reroll the CD for 10% extra dmg.

Actually, on the top of my head I can't recall if you can reroll the mana to %dmg but that would be the obvious one since this build never have mana issues.

It takes a while to kill things higher up so the CDs are usually up again when you need them sp the extra 10% dmg helps you progress a little faster.

10% extra damage works for me, thank you for the input Arkpit!

[Guest Guestington]

What's better: A well-rolled ancient Ceremonial Knife with a useless legendary affix, or an average non-ancient Sacred Harvester that gives you 5 more Soul Harvest stacks?

[Arkpit 101]

4 hours ago, Guest Guestington said:

What's better: A well-rolled ancient Ceremonial Knife with a useless legendary affix, or an average non-ancient Sacred Harvester that gives you 5 more Soul Harvest stacks?

This depends on which state in the game you currently are.

The Ancient random weapon will always be better early on in the season before you get your overall gear up since the Sacred Harvester works off of your %int so the better your other pieces of gear are, the better Sacred Harvester will become.

Strict dmg wise, in the end the Sacred Harvester will come out on top because of the fact that no matter how bad the rolls are, you can re-roll 1 stat to make it "ok" and the extra intelligence from good gear will go above the perfectly rolled ancient unless it's possibly a primal (Which is a perfectly rolled ancient *facepalm*)

The other thing is survivability, your Lakumba is almost doubled in efficiency so if your dmg doesn't seem to be that bad but you're dying a lot then the harvester will help you more. This is a common case in Hardcore grinding pieces around GR30 right after you get 6-set bonus where dmg is fantastic but survivability is dodgy.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Arkpit

[Guest Hollowecho]

Thank you for a wonderful guide. A couple of questions: What tweaks would you make for playing hardcore? Is high paragon level needed to make this build work? Thanks again.

[Guest Maerodryn]

I have two sets full : Helltooth and Endless walk, I don't need Ring of the royale grandeur (Kanai's Cube) Please, what jewels to replace him? Convention of elements ? Thanks to help me. 

[Arkpit 101]

16 hours ago, Guest Hollowecho said:

Thank you for a wonderful guide. A couple of questions: What tweaks would you make for playing hardcore? Is high paragon level needed to make this build work? Thanks again.

Glad to see more HC players out there and since I've played HC several seasons with WD I mention a few changes that worked well for me up to GR75+.

Let me start with you barely need any paragon at all to play any build on HC, you simply have to make a few adjustments to fit in some survivability and here are your options depending on what GR you are at:

#1 Swap the Endless Walk set (Compass Rose & Travelers Pledge) set for Unity+Hellfire Amu.
This is a very unpopular change with many but my personal favorite if you do the actual math and logic behind it.
Endless Walk gives you 100% dmg increase after being still for a pretty long while, that doesn't happen all that often while trying to dodge things and while moving you have 50% dmg reduction.

The Unity+Hellfire combo gives you first off a constant 50% dmg reduction at all times regardless and the ring got a %dmg increase to elites (15 or 25 can't remember) and with this you can get a 5th passive (Recommend Pierce the Veil) which gives another 20% dmg boost and also does not restrict your movement and dodging capabilities. The loss of dmg is neglible compared to the added survivability.

#2 Lose the Stricken gem and put Esotaric Alteration in it's place. The esotaric gem is an absolute must in hardcore regardless of what you do, you just need it. Stricken is not a valuable gem until you are pushing 65-70GR+ and when you get to GR70 and feeling bosses is the problem, swap out the Enforcer gem instead and use Stricken.

#3 Change the passive "Confidence Ritual" for something more suitable like Jungle fortitude (generally better than Swampland Attunement).

#4 Last thing is the off-hand comparison. Many prefer the Kitten because it makes trashclearing so much easier to push through BUT, the dmg reduction of 70% only counts for first hit and then it's 0% and bosses can't be charmed.
If trash is not an issue I would stick with the serpents any day since it's a 30% dmg reduction at all times including the entire boss. From personal experience, bosses is usually what will kill you in GR70+ (Never try to fight the charging winged demon, F that guy on high GR HC).

Hope this helps! But remember with HC you have to constantly adapt. All of the above can be done individually and gradually managed to keep a safe and constant curve to a point where you feel safe.

[Guest Hollowecho]

4 hours ago, Arkpit said:

Glad to see more HC players out there and since I've played HC several seasons with WD I mention a few changes that worked well for me up to GR75+.

Let me start with you barely need any paragon at all to play any build on HC, you simply have to make a few adjustments to fit in some survivability and here are your options depending on what GR you are at:

#1 Swap the Endless Walk set (Compass Rose & Travelers Pledge) set for Unity+Hellfire Amu.
This is a very unpopular change with many but my personal favorite if you do the actual math and logic behind it.
Endless Walk gives you 100% dmg increase after being still for a pretty long while, that doesn't happen all that often while trying to dodge things and while moving you have 50% dmg reduction.

The Unity+Hellfire combo gives you first off a constant 50% dmg reduction at all times regardless and the ring got a %dmg increase to elites (15 or 25 can't remember) and with this you can get a 5th passive (Recommend Pierce the Veil) which gives another 20% dmg boost and also does not restrict your movement and dodging capabilities. The loss of dmg is neglible compared to the added survivability.

#2 Lose the Stricken gem and put Esotaric Alteration in it's place. The esotaric gem is an absolute must in hardcore regardless of what you do, you just need it. Stricken is not a valuable gem until you are pushing 65-70GR+ and when you get to GR70 and feeling bosses is the problem, swap out the Enforcer gem instead and use Stricken.

#3 Change the passive "Confidence Ritual" for something more suitable like Jungle fortitude (generally better than Swampland Attunement).

#4 Last thing is the off-hand comparison. Many prefer the Kitten because it makes trashclearing so much easier to push through BUT, the dmg reduction of 70% only counts for first hit and then it's 0% and bosses can't be charmed.
If trash is not an issue I would stick with the serpents any day since it's a 30% dmg reduction at all times including the entire boss. From personal experience, bosses is usually what will kill you in GR70+ (Never try to fight the charging winged demon, F that guy on high GR HC).

Hope this helps! But remember with HC you have to constantly adapt. All of the above can be done individually and gradually managed to keep a safe and constant curve to a point where you feel safe.

This helps a lot - Thanks so much. Cheers!

[Guest Straz]

I may have missed something, but with choosing skills you suggested both wall of death and piranha, both of which are on the same skill set. Is there a way to change this as it will only allow me to choose one?  The same applies to choosing between zombie dogs and spirit walk.  I'm using the ps4, if that makes a difference.

[Guest Hello]

Isn't the Zunimassa variant of this build better now since it's 6p bonus got buffed in patch 2.5?

 

Helltooth damage = (1+14)×1.2 = 18

2p bonus: 1400%

6p bonus: 20%

 

Zunimassa damage = (1+25)×1.25 = 32.5

6p bonus: 2500%

Mantle of Channeling: 25%

 

Also I believe Convention of Elements is superior to Tasker and Theo for DPS, and the only advantage TnT could have over CoE is for the Leeching Beasts recovery in the Helltooth variant, which is minor compared to the damage boost.

[Guest Hello]

On 4/16/2017 at 0:58 PM, Guest Straz said:

I may have missed something, but with choosing skills you suggested both wall of death and piranha, both of which are on the same skill set. Is there a way to change this as it will only allow me to choose one?  The same applies to choosing between zombie dogs and spirit walk.  I'm using the ps4, if that makes a difference.

Enable Elective Mode in Options: Gameplay

[Valks 2,375]

On 4/6/2017 at 0:06 PM, Arkpit said:

Hope this helps! But remember with HC you have to constantly adapt. All of the above can be done individually and gradually managed to keep a safe and constant curve to a point where you feel safe.

Thanks for helping with everything Ark! :)

[Valks 2,375]

On 4/16/2017 at 4:58 AM, Guest Straz said:

I may have missed something, but with choosing skills you suggested both wall of death and piranha, both of which are on the same skill set. Is there a way to change this as it will only allow me to choose one?  The same applies to choosing between zombie dogs and spirit walk.  I'm using the ps4, if that makes a difference.

You have to enable Elective Mode in the game options.

[Valks 2,375]

20 hours ago, Guest Hello said:

Isn't the Zunimassa variant of this build better now since it's 6p bonus got buffed in patch 2.5?

I think for damage, 100%. The Zuni build will put out more damage than Helltooth for sure, but you put yourself in an interesting situation. Let's say you have had a great run, but you then die at the boss due to the lack of survivability that the Helltooth build can provide - you need to be able to build up your fetishes again via use of Belt of Trans, etc.

If you can't build your fetishes quick enough, you might find yourself in the horrible situation of chain dying at the boss, simply because you can't re-build after dying. I think Zuni can definitely work really well, but can also find itself getting punished horrendously after dying in certain situations.

Something to keep in mind, at least!

Also, if you do decide to play Zuni, I would cube CoE over RoRG, yes.

[Guest Hello]

4 hours ago, Blainie said:

Let's say you have had a great run, but you then die at the boss due to the lack of survivability that the Helltooth build can provide - you need to be able to build up your fetishes again via use of Belt of Trans, etc.

I don't think Helltooth provides all that more toughness than Zunimassa.

 

Helltooth damage reduction = 1-0.75*0.4*0.7 = 79%

Wall of Death: Communing With Spirits = 25%

4p bonus = 60%

Ukhapian Serpent = 30%

 

Zunimassa damage reduction = 1-0.75*0.31 = 76.75%

Mantle of Channeling = 25%

4p bonus = 69%

 

As can be seen from these calculations, Helltooth only has a slight edge in toughness, so if you were unlikely to die with Helltooth, you're probably still unlikely to die with Zunimassa. However, Zunimassa can cube Unity instead of CoE (or probably cube RoRG and wear Unity for the Elite damage instead of Area damage on Zunimassa's Pox), and it would come out ahead in toughness and probably still do more damage than Helltooth because of the recent buff (though I'm not 100% certain on this).

 

Also, wouldn't CoE still be better than TnT for Helltooth as well, even though everyone has been playing with TnT since 2.4.1?

5 hours ago, Blainie said:

 

[Arkpit 101]

12 hours ago, Guest Hello said:

Zunimassa damage reduction = 1-0.75*0.31 = 76.75%

Mantle of Channeling = 25%

4p bonus = 69%

Why are you listing Mantle of Channeling for Zuni btw? I don't see why you would use Firebats in the build?

You are also assuming a constant 69% which it isn't. Even with the Belt, it takes time to ramp up the fetish count unless you're running around with a Jerams which you probably aren't so you go in to each rift almost getting oneshotted by the tiniest thing which makes the Firebats odd since it's close range.

Now there is also the fact that you are comparing "Dmg reduced" with "Reduce dmg done" which isn't the same thing. Say you have 25%+25% addatative dmg reduce, this takes off 25 dmg from 100 and then 25% off 75 compared to reducing the outgoing dmg from the enemy by 25% straight up.

So the Helltooth communing with spirits is stronger than many of the added dmg reduction from other sets much like the passive Bad Medicin also is.

Let's also account for the loss of "Witching Hour" by trading to this build which is quite a significant drop so while yes, the dps is higher for gargs in Zuni set but I still don't see it being worth the drop if safety compared to the amount damage gained.

However this is from a person that basically spend the seasons in Hardcore so survivability to me is paramount!

Edited April 21, 2017 by Arkpit