T15 Warlock Style - Normal & Heroic

[Omaric 246]

After reading your reply, I assumed that you would be owning me on each of the priority add groups, by at least a considerable margin, but here are the results:

Mine - http://www.worldoflo.../?s=5507&e=6185

Yours - http://worldoflogs.c.../?s=2454&e=3061

From what I can see, you only beat me on Venom Priests, by approximately 10% and on Frozen Warlords, by approximately 5%. I did significantly more on Wastewalkers , Dinomancers, Beast Shaman and Flame Casters (we had to focus these ones down too, due to being short on interrupts, so this was a prio target for me too). I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, because I can't know how the fight revolves for you and how long the adds actually last. As far as comparison goes, these logs are the best I can do at the moment.

You are missing one valuable piece of information though. Your fight went on for a minute longer than his, and the members on his raid team appear to be more competent than yours. When you take the last phase and pull it apart from the rest, everyone is doing SIGNIFICANTLY more DPS. Because Zagam's other members are putting out more DPS, that phase ends sooner, which effectively reduces the total damage he can do in that phase. Compared to your parse where you contribute quite a bit more than anyone in your group, during a phase where you are allowed to do ridiculous amounts of damage.

Horridon is really a difficult boss to compare DPS to, as there is so much going on and so much possible cleaving that can happen.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Omaric

[Nikthas 6]

You could say that I carried a bit there, yes, but the difference I also forgot to mention in my first post is that we three-heal Horridon (I missed the fact you guys two-healed it, that was my bad), so that was probably also why I had more room to kill. I guess that, seeing as we both downed it, our contributions to the cause were sufficient. The reason I posted in the first place was to share another, in my opinion, viable strategy and I wanted to back up my claims by comparing it to what you were doing.

Completely unrelated to the previous, we killed Iron Qon heroic yesterday and we had some issues with using the Demonic Gateway. I put it up from where we land for the Wind Storm, so that it takes 5 people all the way out to safety (not on the edge of the ''safety line'', but max distance the portal can do). Some of them reported that they went through the portal when the path seemed clear, then landed on the ground and got instantly picked up by one of the tornadoes. This happened on two pulls to three different people. Has anyone encountered anything like this before?

Edit: I mentioned it was heroic, because this never happened to us before, while we were doing it on normal and people also reported going through tornadoes on heroic while in teleport-flight and still not getting picked up.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Nikthas

[Omaric 246]

Completely unrelated to the previous, we killed Iron Qon heroic yesterday and we had some issues with using the Demonic Gateway. I put it up from where we land for the Wind Storm, so that it takes 5 people all the way out to safety (not on the edge of the ''safety line'', but max distance the portal can do). Some of them reported that they went through the portal when the path seemed clear, then landed on the ground and got instantly picked up by one of the tornadoes. This happened on two pulls to three different people. Has anyone encountered anything like this before?

Edit: I mentioned it was heroic, because this never happened to us before, while we were doing it on normal and people also reported going through tornadoes on heroic while in teleport-flight and still not getting picked up.

I've not done this on heroic, but this definitely sounds like a bug. I've never run into this issue on normal considering that you don't touch a tornado before clicking the gateway.

Is it possible that connecting with a tornado while transferring gateways will cause you to get sucked into it after the transfer is complete? I'm going to start looking into that.

[Cruzan 71]

Only done Iron Qon in LFR, but it's most likely a latency issue, much like how people could die to an annihilate on kings while standing behind the boss. Those damn gateways seem so unreliable in more ways than one nowadays. I also wouldn't take your raider's word at 100% if they are saying it "seemed" like the path was clear.

If you do connect with a tornado midway through the transfer however, you will be picked up and I think that is working as intended. It's not an instant port like our demonic circles or a blink.

[Nikthas 6]

May be a latency issue or a L2P one, I just wanted to make sure that this wasn't something people were experiencing already. It seemed strange to me because we never had this happening before, then all of a sudden, 2 people got picked up like that on the same storm, then the next attempt, one more pickup.

[Zagam 1,982]

For our group, the five that used the Gateway had no issues. We also didn't bother waiting for a clear path. I've used the Gateway and gone right through a tornado and it's not picked me up. Of course, this fight is the most irritating in terms of things functioning properly. The first week I got to him, every time we got to P4, he despawned. That was awesome.

[Omaric 246]

For our group, the five that used the Gateway had no issues. We also didn't bother waiting for a clear path. I've used the Gateway and gone right through a tornado and it's not picked me up. Of course, this fight is the most irritating in terms of things functioning properly. The first week I got to him, every time we got to P4, he despawned. That was awesome.

I actually think that despawning has to do with the fact that Blizz did not intend for people to fight him over by the door where everything is easy. His mounts have to travel a huge distance to get to him that way and I think that tweaks with their mechanics every so often, causing a despawn.

[Zagam 1,982]

Not true when the despawns were happening. My group's leadership was dumb enough to order us back to the stairs where you originally pull him in P2. DEBUNKED, SIR. Not that I blame you...who in their right mind would demand your raiders go to some niche in a corner, dodge tornadoes, then spend time relocating to the front?

[Omaric 246]

It's always good to have a good debunking in the morning. Well at least that's been ruled out. So just happy-times Blizzard bugs, then. /cheers

Edited April 30, 2013 by Omaric

[Nikthas 6]

For our group, the five that used the Gateway had no issues. We also didn't bother waiting for a clear path. I've used the Gateway and gone right through a tornado and it's not picked me up. Of course, this fight is the most irritating in terms of things functioning properly. The first week I got to him, every time we got to P4, he despawned. That was awesome.

But was this on normal or heroic?

[Omaric 246]

Well he downed H Iron Qon last week, so it's pretty safe to assume he's pulling from his experience there. =D

[Zagam 1,982]

Ja, it was Heroic. The group said all of their progression was due to a bad Warlock. They took a Shadow Priest and did it without portals, so they can't testify if anything was broken. We 2 shot it with me and never had an issue with the Gateway. I've used it in LFR as well and saw no issues there, either. Can't recall any issues from normal.

[Nikthas 6]

Alright, well, the reason I asked (and mentioned heroic, initially) is because this is the first time I saw this myself, and it occured on the night we were killing it on heroic. I will keep an eye out for this the next time we kill it too and will post my findings.

[Omaric 246]

Zagam, your guide for Jin'Rokh could probably be updated a smidgen. Pets will actually benefit from the pool, but they need to be standing in it. Imp + flee for example would work, though I prefer to go with Sacrifice anyway for the gigantic Sac Pact bubbles.

[Zagam 1,982]

Yeah I could update it, but my strat works. I also feel it's best suited for the Sac Pact bubble, as you indicated. Obviously this fight can be beaten by a crit-stacking Affliction Warlock with no talents, so I think anyone will do what they want.

[Omaric 246]

Also, can we just sacrifice an imp and use Singe Magic to remove the Ionization? Don't have to take a health hit with Unbound Will and can still use Burning Rush to flee from shit.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Omaric

[Zagam 1,982]

You know I've never used Burning Rush? I've never needed it at one point EVER to get out of anything. In fact, on fights where I don't use Unbound Will, I just don't use a 4th tier talent. Burning Rush, to me, is far too expensive in health to be of anything. This only requires healing attention which I've tried to do the opposite of with most of my play. As for Singe Magic, I'm not sure because for anything Singe Magic would work for, I use Unbound Will. I find sacrificing a Voidlord for Shadow Bulwark to be much more effective for Health Stones, Mortal Coil, and other things that heal you for a % of your max HP.

[Omaric 246]

Really!? I love Burning Rush. Just like I loved Sac Pact before it was kewl. ;D

Oh crap, I need to get to that blue swiry on Lei Shen ASAP because somebody decided to change which blue swirly they wanted to stand on. Boom I'm there. Obviously that's a bad example for a group that doesn't have anyone derping, but I use it pretty frequently when UW isn't a necessity.

Plus with green fire, it looks like you have really bad gas, which is hilarium.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Omaric

[Zagam 1,982]

I think the ONE time I used it was during a WSG where I had a healer following me. That's how I got my 'cap in 75 seconds' achievement. It may have uses I can't think of, but I still feel it is way too expensive in terms of health per second to be worthwhile. Is it still 4% of max HP per second?

[Omaric 246]

I think the ONE time I used it was during a WSG where I had a healer following me. That's how I got my 'cap in 75 seconds' achievement. It may have uses I can't think of, but I still feel it is way too expensive in terms of health per second to be worthwhile. Is it still 4% of max HP per second?

Yes, but how often would you need to run for say.... longer than 4 seconds in a boss scenario? I usually activate it for under 3 seconds at a time to adjust when necessary. I can deal with 12% hp loss to possibly save my ass.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Omaric

[Zagam 1,982]

Yeah, I guess so. Glad it works for you...I just don't like it haha

[Cruzan 71]

I had a question about pets on Jin'rok,

Wouldn't your observer be (assuming proper positioning by tanks) in the pools with melee during every pool? I guess you could bring your imp to the beginning of a pool right away, but he might still be out of range and move out temporarily.

Just something I was curious about. I haven't had enough looks at the fight where the tanks did the melee a solid and positioned the boss properly.

[Omaric 246]

You definitely could use the Observer, it just wouldn't benefit for the entire duration of the pool like you can using Sacrifice or using an imp with Flee.

[Nikthas 6]

Also, can we just sacrifice an imp and use Singe Magic to remove the Ionization? Don't have to take a health hit with Unbound Will and can still use Burning Rush to flee from shit.

- Yes. That's what I've been doing for a while now.

Regarding Burning Rush, I find it useful on Megaera if I have to run from the Frost Beam and want to cast at the same time, on Ji-Kun if I'm running from one nest spawn to another and need to be there faster, on Durumu if I take the ranged maze and want to continue casting and on Lei Shen, if I have to get to my quarter really quick to avoid placing an Overload in some quarter. Taking that damage and having the healers healing it up (or healing it up yourself, depending on the situation) isn't that big of a deal, or at least I haven't found it to be, because I always either have a huge SL shield up on me, or there is nothing else for healers to heal during the time I am using it.

[Wolland 1]

You definitely could use the Observer, it just wouldn't benefit for the entire duration of the pool like you can using Sacrifice or using an imp with Flee.

And how about guardians? I noticed they do benefit from the pool while standing in them, but is it worth it using it in a pool before 20% boss HP?

When we didn't have enough DPS (read: no legendary meta gems), I could line the guardian up with the fourth pool while the boss was below 20%, but now, we get Jinrok below 20% right after the third pool.

So I was wondering whether to pop the guardian on the first pool or during <20%, I'd try an educated guess and say "during first pool"; or lined up with third pool + <20% when we get there.