5.4 Warlock (Intellect) Trinkets

[JvChequer 43]

I feel relief they buffed BB, even with worse RPPM than Wushy now the buff it's way better.

Btw, I feel that Immersius + multistrike trinket just make Sacrifice for affliction more desirable at higher ilvl even nerfed like it is nowadays.

[Zagam 1,983]

Multistrike seems decent.  Grim of Sac is being nerfed to 20% in 5.4.  Grim of Sac is only good if you're tunneling one target which we didn't do in ToT and we won't be doing in SoO.  Supremacy is going to be the way to go, and Multistrike won't proc from pets.  Just like Spriests, Mages, Boomkins, and Eles shouldn't have taken UVLS from us, we shouldn't be taking Multistrike trinket from non-pet classes.  Take it if no one else wants it, because they'll put it to better use.

[Soulzar 42]

So far from my limited testing, BB seems to almost always be stacking up.. very high up time.

 

Curious how the proc chance works for multi strike.  How does it compare on a fast ticking small numbers spec like affliction, vs a slower but high hitting spec like destro?

 

Does it proc on spell hit, or spell dmg as tooltip would imply?

 

I'll have to get on PTR again after raid tonight and play around.  Logic would suggest its on spell dmg and not hit, or it would be very imbalanced between caster playstyle types.

[Zagam 1,983]

Should be similar to how Tarecgosa worked.  It says in the tooltip that it'll do 33% of the damage done.  Since its a proc rate, faster, smaller hits should be equivalent in bonus damage to slower, larger hits.  Tarecgosa modeled this similarly...having a constant proc rate means no matter how you deal damage, the bonus damage will be the same. 

 

More targets = more Multistrike damage as long as you're hitting more targets. 

[Warbii 0]

Is a 522 trinket always better than LFR one?

So lets say the valor trinket Volatile Talisman (522) compared to Wushoolay's (502)? 

edit; for destro warlocks.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Warbii

[Zagam 1,983]

"Always" is a word I try to never use when it comes to RNG for various reasons.  Discussion on 5.2 and 5.3 trinkets will cease soon (from me at least), but you can't really say one way or another which is better.  Wush's 12k Intellect proc able to be snapshotted is pretty attractive, and is a lot more attractive than the 8800 Haste proc.  The static Int of VToSA is nicer than the static hit of Wush, but you care about procs, not sustained.

 

TL;DR: "Always" is a word that shouldn't be used with anything involving RNG. 

 

Also, as Destruction it doesn't really matter.  But Haste procs are poor for them.

[Soulzar 42]

So far I seem to be having best results with Amp and BB trinkets.  Aside from Multistrike not being able to proc from your pet damage, the idea of extra DMG from a proc % IMO is very close to what has always historically held Crit back as a go to stat...  RNG.

 

Aside from some spells scaling on Crit, you could cast 10 shadowbolts and crit on 10 of them,..do great dmg... or you could crit on none of them and gain nothing.  Haste and mastery will always scale you.

 

I like the static stats on BB over a chance at more dmg.  You will always have those stats for set procs, meta, other trinket, profession, lust... where as you may not get a multistrike proc when your buffs are rolling where it would really shine.

 

Everything above said, with zero math.. just my opinion.

[gahhda 95]

comparing heroic TF 2/2 ToT trinkets with normal mode 2/2 SoO trinkets FOR AFFLICTION (I'll be doing much more tomorrow with ilvl/specs):

 

Multi > Blood > Wushoo > Unerring = Breath = Bindings > Chayes

 

 

Key thing to note here, the 3 middle-pack trinkets are all tied, meaning you can feel free to throw uvls in the trash if you aren't demo.

[Lockybalboa 618]

comparing heroic TF 2/2 ToT trinkets with normal mode 2/2 SoO trinkets FOR AFFLICTION (I'll be doing much more tomorrow with ilvl/specs):

 

Multi > Blood > Wushoo > Unerring = Breath = Bindings > Chayes

 

 

Key thing to note here, the 3 middle-pack trinkets are all tied, meaning you can feel free to throw uvls in the trash if you aren't demo.

 

Highly interested, last I heard the thinking on Multi was that it didn't proc off pets thus wasn't that steller for Warlock. BB/Amp BiS with cleave being situational. 

[gahhda 95]

That was with gosac because I'm a tard sometimes. Gosup:

 

wushoo 2.0 > wushoo > multi > bindings = unerring = breath > chayes

 

So, for AFFLICTION ONLY, all of the 5.4 normal trinkets beat all of the heroic t15 TF trinkets other than wushoolay. The interaction between wushoo + wushoo 2.0 is just too strong for the current affli meta.

 

 

I'll be doing a full spectrum sim tonight for all the trinkets with all the talents for all the specs..should only take 58 hours rofl.

Edited September 8, 2013 by gahhda

[Lockybalboa 618]

Wait, so BOTH Wush 1.0 and 2.0? No Amp trink?

[gahhda 95]

Amp isn't that good until you approach heroic gear because the total statistic budget gained for affliction isn't that valuable. Still open to debate for the other two...need to do so much shit today sigh.

[gahhda 95]

Unerring is still beyond bis for demonology, testing further to compare it to next tier heroic trinkets now :/.

[Zagam 1,983]

Amp isn't that good until you approach heroic gear because the total statistic budget gained for affliction isn't that valuable. Still open to debate for the other two...need to do so much shit today sigh.

Aren't you discrediting the reliability of an ICD Intellect proc that almost lines up perfectly with Dark Soul?  Sure the passive grows as you acquire gear, but the proc is pretty neato in my opinion.

[Zagam 1,983]

Unerring is still beyond bis for demonology, testing further to compare it to next tier heroic trinkets now :/.

By beyond BiS, are you still testing in Simcraft where ideal RNG measures and smooths out over many iterations?  I don't see how it can be BiS when its RPPM makes it miss the opening burst window smaller.  The shadyness of the RNG of it makes it difficult to time as well because you'd need to hold onto Metamorphosis form to slap it on.  Considering we're losing the Imp Swarm burst as well as the 30% reduction in DF cost during Dark Soul, Metamorphosis uptime is already going to be an issue initially...being a slave to monitoring this proc if it happens (which maybe what, 50-60% of the time?) during the opening. 

[gahhda 95]

By beyond BiS, are you still testing in Simcraft where ideal RNG measures and smooths out over many iterations?  I don't see how it can be BiS when its RPPM makes it miss the opening burst window smaller.  The shadyness of the RNG of it makes it difficult to time as well because you'd need to hold onto Metamorphosis form to slap it on.  Considering we're losing the Imp Swarm burst as well as the 30% reduction in DF cost during Dark Soul, Metamorphosis uptime is already going to be an issue initially...being a slave to monitoring this proc if it happens (which maybe what, 50-60% of the time?) during the opening. 

120 second reset every boss pull makes it significantly more reliably on pull on ptr, which is where the bulk of its dps actually comes from until you look at 20 minute ridiculously long fights like garrosh. Also entirely too many multi-doom fights this tier to abuse it on.

 

As for amp, I'm not saying it isn't good, still much more reliable than rppm trinkets (gets even better as fights last longer). All of the = trinkets were withing 1% of each other.

Edited September 9, 2013 by gahhda

[Zagam 1,983]

Thing that sucks is without EA glyph, going to need 13153 Haste to hit the breakpoint that 8093 did with the EA glyph for +2 ticks of Doom.  Granted, more things to hit with Doom makes this effect diminish, but until people are 550+, I can't see them hitting that breakpoint without completely wrecking their Mastery. 

 

I just need to do this damn raid tomorrow to get a feel for what's going to flow.  I don't want to use UVLS anymore :(

[Wobrig 0]

Hi guys, im alittle confused with the new start. So on Wednesday when I start raiding in 5.4 in old tier gear what trinkets do I aim to use? Im normally Demo and off spec destro. Do I carry on with Hydra/UVLS for demo and plan to drop UVLS first chance I get? Or do I go with one of the Wush/Cha-ye that I have held onto? Also with the now delayed opener proc of UVLS do you delay your burst till it procs (DS & Beserking)?

[Zagam 1,983]

Pray to RNG gods if you continue using UVLS.  That's all I can really say.  Being a slave to pop other CDs when Unerring procs just makes for a really crappy time to me.

[Wobrig 0]

so the better option would be hydra/wush for first run on 5.4 raids?  So is demo looking broken until new trinkets are found? Am I better swapping over to affliction/destro?  As you can tell i havent done any ptr work as my guild has been trying to get as much hc bosses down before 5.4.

[Zagam 1,983]

First off, your trinket selection isn't going to make you go from viable to not viable.  Reading about the fights and executing them properly will FAR outweigh your trinket selection.  Run what you're comfortable with.  Demo isn't "broken" because a lot of fight mechanics make it an advantageous spec to play.  Each fight has niches for each spec...there is no 'best way' to go.  All of these methods are strategy and comp dependent. 

[gahhda 95]

Unerring wins. Multiple multi-target encounters to roll multiple dooms on. The 120 second ensured RPPM on pull means it procs a SIGNIFICANT amount of pulls. It also synergies stupidly with our t16 2pc for a MASSIVE gain.

 

Demo: Unerring/Breath

Destro: Wushoo/Breath

Affli: Wushoo/Breath

 

Trinkets to look for going into next week -

 

All of the trinkets >= are within less than 1% of each other.

 

Demo: Unerring is bis all of next tier (with exceptions based on fights requiring less dooming etc), BB > Multi >= Bindings, all trinkets beat current tier ones for demo. Bindings is ICD and not far behind, so likely the best option of the bunch for the demo playstyle.

 

Affli: Wushoo is just too damn strong for this spec. BB > Wushoo h tf > multi > wushoo h > bindings >= unerring >= breath > chayes. 

 

Destro: Wushoo strong, not as strong as affli wushoo. BB > Wushoo h tf > Bindings >= Multi > wushho h > unerring >= breath >= chayes. Bindings has a strong interaction with destruction because of the % crit damage benefiting it more than the other two specs, because it is icd it also fits well into the destruction rotation. I'm highly considering it to be bis with BB if you don't have H TF Wushoo.

Edited September 9, 2013 by gahhda

[Zagam 1,983]

Gahhda, couple of questions...

 

UVLS - % of procs off the bat you're seeing?  50%?  75%?  99%?  Considering an RPPM of 0.65 modified by Haste and set at t=120, I'm seeing 80-85% proc rate at the beginning...close to what you're seeing?

 

Considering synergy with 2pc, are Wild Imps considered pets or guardians in Blizz's code?  I wouldn't expect that set bonus to snapshot anything, but if it affects Wild Imps, surely it affects Doom/Terrorguard?  Would it then, therefore, be prominent to pop Doom/Terrorguard when 2pc procs?  Are you sure it affects the Imps? 

 

I can see Breath and Wush being usable all the way through Heroic progression if RNG decides not to hand over good trinkets.  I went 42 weeks in Dragon Soul having never seen Cunning of the Cruel, so I'm prepared for a trinket drought.  Considering both Breath and Wush's already high RPPM is still inflated by Haste, I expect to see those procs happening so much that Affliction just weights super hard on the trinkets because with snapshotting, you don't care about the duration of the procs...you care about the quantity of the procs.  More frequent procs = higher uptime of empowered DoTs.  The issue with Unerring is it forbids you to get really powerful Dooms if you got an Unerring proc somewhere without other procs.  I can just see a lot of fights where Unerring looks like it would fall behind.  With the buff to Affliction, are you absolutely sure that UVLS Demo isn't going to fall behind mega empowered Affliction multi-dotting?

[gahhda 95]

Gahhda, couple of questions...

 

UVLS - % of procs off the bat you're seeing?  50%?  75%?  99%?  Considering an RPPM of 0.65 modified by Haste and set at t=120, I'm seeing 80-85% proc rate at the beginning...close to what you're seeing?

 

Considering synergy with 2pc, are Wild Imps considered pets or guardians in Blizz's code?  I wouldn't expect that set bonus to snapshot anything, but if it affects Wild Imps, surely it affects Doom/Terrorguard?  Would it then, therefore, be prominent to pop Doom/Terrorguard when 2pc procs?  Are you sure it affects the Imps? 

 

I can see Breath and Wush being usable all the way through Heroic progression if RNG decides not to hand over good trinkets.  I went 42 weeks in Dragon Soul having never seen Cunning of the Cruel, so I'm prepared for a trinket drought.  Considering both Breath and Wush's already high RPPM is still inflated by Haste, I expect to see those procs happening so much that Affliction just weights super hard on the trinkets because with snapshotting, you don't care about the duration of the procs...you care about the quantity of the procs.  More frequent procs = higher uptime of empowered DoTs.  The issue with Unerring is it forbids you to get really powerful Dooms if you got an Unerring proc somewhere without other procs.  I can just see a lot of fights where Unerring looks like it would fall behind.  With the buff to Affliction, are you absolutely sure that UVLS Demo isn't going to fall behind mega empowered Affliction multi-dotting?

 

2pc procs off molten core...unerring snapshotting increases molten core procs ._.?

 

They removed the haste scaling on (i think) every rppm trinket that currently exists. Anything that gives a statistic as a proc no longer scales off haste, because of their ass backwards logic of double dipping or whatever idiocy.

 

Affliction is strong on fights, demo is strong on others, time will tell.

 

and if you'd ever use skype I wouldn't have to make giant blocky ass responses to you!

Edited September 9, 2013 by gahhda

[Zagam 1,983]

I told you, I only used Skype to see my long distance woman in compromising positions.  Now that she lives with me, Skype is worthless.