5.4 Destruction Tips and Quirks

[Omaric 246]

Zagam....You said that Immolate buffs Incinerate. Can you explain how that works?

Thank you

I'm not seeing that either. I see that Rain of Fire does more damage on Immolated targets, but not Incinerate.

[Zagam 1,982]

Wow, old school mechanic change I never noticed. Incinerate used to do a lot more if it hit someone Immolated...good to know that you don't need Immo up for Incinerate anymore in burst situations...blah, I feel dumb.

[Sifon 25]

I've been reading that old school mastery build is still viable for destruction(can't remember with which grimoire) so I made 2 simulations 1 with full haste 1 with mastery, with my current gear(2pc T14, 2pc T15). Results were close enough to give a shot but the question bugs me is can I trust simcraft's trinket uptimes? Because between 11k haste and 3k haste there is only %1-3 difference between Cha-Ye's, BotH, and legendary meta gem uptime. And mastery build simmed 2-3k higher by the way.

[JvChequer 43]

I've been reading that old school mastery build is still viable for destruction(can't remember with which grimoire) so I made 2 simulations 1 with full haste 1 with mastery, with my current gear(2pc T14, 2pc T15). Results were close enough to give a shot but the question bugs me is can I trust simcraft's trinket uptimes? Because between 11k haste and 3k haste there is only %1-3 difference between Cha-Ye's, BotH, and legendary meta gem uptime. And mastery build simmed 2-3k higher by the way.

I dont think 1-3% more uptime it's that trustable, but you need to test yourself.

[Sifon 25]

I dont think 1-3% more uptime it's that trustable, but you need to test yourself.

I'm gonna try all in mastery build in tomorrow's raid so I will have some data about Cha-Ye's and BoTH but I don't have the gem yet.

[Altar 0]

Hello everyone hello Zagam. Thank you very much for your guides, they really helped. Always working front of training dummy or going to lfr for test. But i can't find the true reforging or gemming about Destruction. Can you please help me about gems ? What i need to change ? I feel really tired

1) http://eu.battle.net.../Altar/advanced

25N logs

2) http://www.worldoflo...ne/?s=146&e=368 (this was 203k last week with supremacy/different reforge+gems,this week i used sacrifice and deleted enchanting, put engineering. Synapse Springs didnt work quickly, lost time/dps)

3) http://www.worldoflo.../?s=1949&e=2578

4) http://www.worldoflo.../?s=8795&e=9277

In simulationcraft, with this ilvl how much dps it must show? Today i simulated and it showed 137k. But i believe that it should be higher.

I find my stat weights in simulationcraft and put them to askmrrobot custom weights option. Then trying to optimize it.

Have some items in bag maybe you will want me to swap them.

1) Flamecaster's Burning Crown

2) Megaera's Shining Eye

3) Zandalari Robes of the Final Rite

4) Lightningweaver Gauntlets

5) Signet of the Shado-Pan Assault

Thank you.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Altar

[Zagam 1,982]

Your logs look solid, man. Keep up the good work. Maybe point a couple of the Warlocks in your raid this way or help them yourself. You're outperforming the crap out of a couple of them, so helping them might boost your raid team a bit.

That said, don't focus on the stats. They're going to be dependent on the fight and what your job is in the fight. Personally I don't like Destruction so much because I like stacking Haste and then I get absurdly fast Incinerates under Backdraft, especially during Bloodlust. If I were to play Destruction as my main spec, I'd likely find that perfect value of Haste that would ensure I'd never go below 1.0 sec Incinerate, but that's unreasonable. It looks like you're playing very well, so keep up that work and just try to improve each week.

Also, don't listen to Simcraft. It's a fantastic model for finding certain things, but it is not very optimal for finding the DPS you'll do on a particular fight because there are way too many variables. I sim at 145k single target but do 168k. There are just some things that can't be modeled. Try not to think of your Simcraft simulated DPS value as anything but a VERY broad value in some ballpark of how you could actually perform. Use that number as a benchmark and always try to beat it. Just be aware that there are only a few modes in Simcraft (most people default to the Patchwerk type style which NEVER happens) so you'd need to fully customize it for a real approximation. The best way to test things is in LFR. That's how I run my tests when I'm curious. I know it's not timely, but live data >>>>>> simulated data.

[Vaelyn 6]

Hi Altar, I'm not sure how close you are to getting the legendary metagems, but you already have some pretty awesome RPPM trinkets.

Unless you really prefer destruction, it might be time to switch to affliction for many fights that you usually played destruction on (the first few bosses at least).

For exactly the reason Zagam pointed out: Destruction is awkward with too much haste and those trinkets and metagem want that haste.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Vaelyn

[gahhda 95]

Hi Altar, I'm not sure how close you are to getting the legendary metagems, but you already have some pretty awesome RPPM trinkets.

Unless you really prefer destruction, it might be time to switch to affliction for many fights that you usually played destruction on (the first few bosses at least).

For exactly the reason Zagam pointed out: Destruction is awkward with too much haste and those trinkets and metagem want that haste.

Even counting the effect, destruction will continue to perform as well as, if not better, on the majority of fights. There isn't such a thing as a patchwerk raid boss this tier, theres nothing even close but jinrokh and *possibly* jikun. Jikun is patchwerk-ish if you don't ever do nests personally. Jin'rokh is all about controlled burst because of the downtime between pulls.

Mastery >> haste >> crit in game, essentially. Mastery has such an inflated value vs simc on so many fights this tier, regardless of talent choice.

Also, keep in mind that simply looking through fights in game and checking uptime on rppm trinkets/meta won't do you much good at all. Its entirely RNG based, which is another reason I don't recommend full haste. The large part of hastes increase in value from last tier isn't grimoire switching, its RPPM mechanics. Since simc does everything so many times, it has very very averaged numbers. I test things @ 50000 iterations usually, which means it does a 450 second fight 50000 times. In game I see a variance of +/- 15% uptime on my trinkets in game between pulls. Its a much smaller sample size.

[Altar 0]

Hello Zagam. Especially last weeks i was getting freak about simulationcraft+askmrrobot. Regem,reforge (oh now better simulationcraft result!), then again regem, reforge :)

I really don't have a good knowledge about simulationcraft so i will do what you said. Simulationcraft will not be a prio.

Hello Vaelyn. I have 16 empire item now, i wish next week i will complete them to 20. Exciting about that helm gem :)

Waiting some set bonus for affliction, actually it did very well in Iron Qon last night (trinkets/dots stacked perfectly.)

Both of you have great knowledge and experience so i must listen your advice. Will go and reforge to haste and try it tonight at Iron Qon. Thank you very much for your answers and help, i really needed those advices. ^^

[Zagam 1,982]

The most Patchwerk type fight we have against all specs is Durumu. Some players will switch off to adds, but that can be ignored to get a real sense of your single target damage. Since we all have access to KJC, there is no DPS loss during the maze phase. As long as you're not stunned after the maze, this is your best opportunity to test your single target DPS. I wouldn't consider any fight with an extra large situational buff (Jinrokh puddles/Ji'kun nutriment) more Patchwerk-like than Durumu.

[gahhda 95]

The most Patchwerk type fight we have against all specs is Durumu. Some players will switch off to adds, but that can be ignored to get a real sense of your single target damage. Since we all have access to KJC, there is no DPS loss during the maze phase. As long as you're not stunned after the maze, this is your best opportunity to test your single target DPS. I wouldn't consider any fight with an extra large situational buff (Jinrokh puddles/Ji'kun nutriment) more Patchwerk-like than Durumu.

Yea sorry I was thinking about heroic fights. Derp.

[dooms 1]

hello fellow warlocks.. i'm verry confused atm about my locks

http://us.battle.net...Edessa/advanced

from all the guides said that best stat for destro is crit>mastery>haste

and then with new RPPM trinket haste is more favorable

but last day i got news from warlock friends in my guild that mostly top destro locks that killed ra-den is on mastery>haste>crit build...

can any of you suggest what should my stats be ?

or should i consider switch spec to demon or afflic ?

thanks before, and sorry for my bad english

Edited April 23, 2013 by dooms

[Cruzan 71]

I've got a quick question about CB dumping priorities. I know Zagam has talked about two cases, During DS and when BotH procs, but is it acceptable to burn CBs with a smaller proc combined with a haste proc such as the volatile talisman (as well the legendary gem for those who have it)? I realize that average CB damage would go down, but it would seem that DPET would even out. I've been bumping in to that clunky <1s incin spam which sucks and am wondering if this might be a better alternative in the right proc situations.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Cruzan

[Vaelyn 6]

hello fellow warlocks.. i'm verry confused atm about my locks

http://us.battle.net...Edessa/advanced

from all the guides said that best stat for destro is crit>mastery>haste

and then with new RPPM trinket haste is more favorable

but last day i got news from warlock friends in my guild that mostly top destro locks that killed ra-den is on mastery>haste>crit build...

can any of you suggest what should my stats be ?

or should i consider switch spec to demon or afflic ?

thanks before, and sorry for my bad english

Mastery is way better in real world situations than simming single target Patchwerk fights would suggest, because on almost every fight there is either a huge damage buff (Jin'rokh) that you will use to dump embers on massive Chaos Bolts/Shadowburns or you can aoe so much that you have way more embers than you'd have on single target fights, also meaning more Chaos Bolts/Shadowburns.

And CB/SB scales best with mastery.

[gahhda 95]

I've got a quick question about CB dumping priorities. I know Zagam has talked about two cases, During DS and when BotH procs, but is it acceptable to burn CBs with a smaller proc combined with a haste proc such as the volatile talisman (as well the legendary gem for those who have it)? I realize that average CB damage would go down, but it would seem that DPET would even out. I've been bumping in to that clunky <1s incin spam which sucks and am wondering if this might be a better alternative in the right proc situations.

DPET means nothing with chaos bolt. Its purpose, primarily, was originally to allow a period of downtime to regenerate mana. Shorter chaos bolt = less mana returned. That being said, doesn't really matter much with the amount we get to use it this tier. Haste proc still doesn't make chaos bolt any stronger, we just have way too many embers to not just sit here spamming CB.

[Morgaliel 2]

Hi !

EDIT : I am wondering whether to break my 4pc T14 or not with 2pc T15 (522 x2) + 2 T14 (504,500) . I have LFR Cha Ye's + Volatile Talisman, don't have the legendary metagem yet. I am at 7/12. Maybe on some fights only ? Any thoughts ?

Many thanks in advance !

Edited April 25, 2013 by Morgaliel

[Owewa 3]

It is a very small DPS gain to use Rain of Fire during single target situations. Rain of Fire should ALWAYS be used when 2 or more targets exist, but including RoF on one target is approximately a 500-700 DPS gain.

My destro lock is Owewa on Stormrage US, currently ilvl 505. I do LFR exclusively.

I see many instances of other locks using ROF on single targets. Is there some advanced idea about ember management ("ROF/Immolate is better than Incinerate for ember generation...") that I don't know about?

Edited April 26, 2013 by Spangles

[gahhda 95]

It is a very small DPS gain to use Rain of Fire during single target situations. Rain of Fire should ALWAYS be used when 2 or more targets exist, but including RoF on one target is approximately a 500-700 DPS gain.

My destro lock is Owewa on Stormrage US, currently ilvl 505. I do LFR exclusively.

I see many instances of other locks using ROF on single targets. Is there some advanced idea about ember management ("ROF/Immolate is better than Incinerate for ember generation...") that I don't know about?

RoF is much greater than a <1k dps gain. It nets 5.2% increase or so in simc. The math exists elsewhere. RoF does more damage. RoF generates more embers. RoF is instant. RoF scales better with haste.

ROF >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> INCINERATE

Period.

Edited April 27, 2013 by gahhda

[obleak 10]

I'm going to have to agree with gahddo.. i don't sim often or anything, but real applications shows RoF doing more damage as well as allowing you to do more damage of a fight.

[Zagam 1,982]

I believe the 500-700 DPS gain was back in 5.1 when solid DPS was around 100k. Things have obviously changed, so I'll go back and update that. The other reason it was a small DPS gain is because without ridiculous Haste levels, you could OOM yourself with any small rotation mistake. This also has been trivialized with gear.

[JvChequer 43]

If u were next to OOM level, could u just Chaos Bolting your target and the cast time would be enough to full some of your mana to your normal rotation.

Probably it's better than stop casting for a second or two.

[Zagam 1,982]

If u were next to OOM level, could u just Chaos Bolting your target and the cast time would be enough to full some of your mana to your normal rotation.

Probably it's better than stop casting for a second or two.

This is when players started suffering when trying to weave in Rain of Fire if they didn't do it perfectly. If they went OOM, they suddenly had to use Chaos Bolt at an inopportune time thus reducing their potential burst DPS when Dark Soul or other procs happened. Now they've compounded one mistake with another. Each time this happens, their overall DPS falls. This is similar to what Combat Rogues dealt with in Dragon Soul...it was a SMALL DPS gain to add (I think) Rupture to their rotation. However, if ONE mistake was made, their DPS penalty was severe. It's a high risk - low reward scenario for Destruction if not played to perfection. In good hands, it's a very good DPS gain.

[JvChequer 43]

I see, thanks to explanation.

I'm Full afliction right now, but considering change to destruction, or not, just studying a little the spec.

[Twinkielock 15]

I know in 5.1 it was favored to use the hybrid gems for Aff. Now in 5.2 what are the preferred gems for destro?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/hyjal/Twinkielock/advanced