5.4 Destruction Tips and Quirks

[gahhda 95]

RoF has nothing to do with ooming.

OOMING =/= DPS LOSS.

If RoF does more damage per mana

RoF generates more embers per mana

RoF is instant, therefore scaling with haste

How then would casting an incinerate and not ooming, in any way be better than dropping the RoF and ooming? The answer is simple, it isn't.

No matter how you 'oom' you have the same total amount of mana to spend, and RoF is a better use of it.

[Nobleshield 15]

One thing that I've felt confuses me in general and as Destro in particular is on multi-target fights. For instance Will of the Emperor (that's as far as I've gotten thus far, specifically in regards to LFR). I feel as though all I'm doing is tossing DoTs on things, with barely any time for actual attacks. It's like... DoT up both bosses, start to attack, oh Rages are up, DoT them (if I'm lucky try to Havoc + Shadowburn as Destro), oh have to refresh DoTs on bosses, oh Strength is up, DoT him, maybe get an attack or two, oh have to refresh DoTs on bosses, oh Courage is up DoT him up, oh have to refresh DoTs on bosses... repeat ad infinitum. I'm sure that I'm doing something wrong but between using Conflag, refreshing Immolate, keeping up RoF (I should keep up RoF single target yes?) it feels that's all I'm doing; maybe it's just because I'm not used to a DoT class so it doesn't seem quite as "active" in the playstyle..

[Zagam 1,982]

One thing that I've felt confuses me in general and as Destro in particular is on multi-target fights. For instance Will of the Emperor (that's as far as I've gotten thus far, specifically in regards to LFR). I feel as though all I'm doing is tossing DoTs on things, with barely any time for actual attacks. It's like... DoT up both bosses, start to attack, oh Rages are up, DoT them (if I'm lucky try to Havoc + Shadowburn as Destro), oh have to refresh DoTs on bosses, oh Strength is up, DoT him, maybe get an attack or two, oh have to refresh DoTs on bosses, oh Courage is up DoT him up, oh have to refresh DoTs on bosses... repeat ad infinitum. I'm sure that I'm doing something wrong but between using Conflag, refreshing Immolate, keeping up RoF (I should keep up RoF single target yes?) it feels that's all I'm doing; maybe it's just because I'm not used to a DoT class so it doesn't seem quite as "active" in the playstyle..

Destruction is the least DoT-like spec of all the Warlocks. Rain of Fire single target only if the target will be in the range of RoF for its entire duration. Havoc + Chaos Bolt/Shadowburn is how you'll do most of your cleave. Instead of using Immolate on everything that spawns, consider bursting down a target. On Will particularly, someone should be in charge of the Strength. In that case, you should be cleaving the two Rages down then switching to the Strength to finish it with a Shadowburn to get Embers that allow you to Havoc Chaos Bolts onto the two bosses. Based on your signature, you're switching from a Protection Warrior to a Warlock. Welcome to the dark side! In regards to an "active" playstyle, I assure you that playing a ranged DPS with lots of targets done properly will feel MUCH more active than staring at a boss's crotch for a duration of the fight and simply paying attention to a tank swap. Since you just recently dinged, you'll be learning the dark arts as you go, but considering Destruction a "DoT" class will likely skew your view on how it's actually approached. Your two DoTs, Immolate and Rain of Fire, are important. They're just a lot less DoT-like than Doom, Agony, Corruption, Unstable Affliction, etc.

[Owewa 3]

It is a very modest DPS gain to use Rain of Fire during single target situations. Rain of Fire should ALWAYS be used when 2 or more targets exist. This gain will be much higher as you accumulate Haste making Rain of Fire tick faster for higher ember generation as well as giving you an increased rate of mana regeneration.

DPS gain from single-target RoF apparently is an unintended side effect:

https://twitter.com/...227081689374720 and may be designed out in the future. As such it is not worth consideration, particularly at my 510 ilvl, where MrRobot locks my haste rating at 4000 or so.

[OOMing is what] players started suffering when trying to weave in Rain of Fire if they didn't do it perfectly. If they went OOM, they suddenly had to use Chaos Bolt at an inopportune time thus reducing their potential burst DPS when Dark Soul or other procs happened.

I am never more than 1/4 total mana from maximum, no matter what I do. At what ilvl and haste rating does mana management become a problem?

This question relates to another:

Your typical AoE priority will be the following:

1) Apply Rain of Fire

2) Apply Fire and Brimstone:Immolate

3) Apply Fire and Brimstone:Conflagrate

4) Use Fire and Brimstone:Incinerate

Because of mechanical problems with aiming the RoF reticle I implement this scheme with a macro

/cast Fire and Brimstone

/cast Rain of Fire

and then /cast Immolate after the mouse click. When RoF is down to 2 seconds I use the macro again:

/cast Fire and Brimstone

/cast Rain of FIre

and then /cast Conflagrate, and so on. Even if I overclip RoF drastically for many iterations I don't come close to 2/3 mana, much less OOM. Is there any other reason not do the AoE cycle this way?

PS: The terminology "Fire and Brimstone:Immolate" is confusing, implying a single spell by analogy with "Dark Soul:Insanity" or "Shadow Word:Pain", if one isn't familiar with the jargon.

PPS: Thanks for a concise and very helpful guide.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Owewa

[Zagam 1,982]

Thanks for the words. As for Rain of Fire, yeah...I hope it gets taken out. Not that I want Destruction nerfed, but at high levels of Haste (I'm at 11500 rating), keeping it up is super annoying and feels...clunky at best.

Soon, Fire and Brimstone won't be as clunky. In mass AoE situations like Tortos and Primoridus, you'll just leave Fire and Brimstone up allowing you to spam your spells harder. This will be a huge increase as trying to time it perfectly will sometimes cause you to fire out a single Incinerate instead of the FnB version. I REALLY welcome this soon-to-come change.

As for your mana situation, high levels of haste regenerate your mana like there is no tomorrow. At lower levels of gear, you can be in a bad situation with mana if you make errors in your rotation. Thankfully, the bad place doesn't last as long.

Fire and Brimstone:Immolate is the terminology for using Immolate while Fire and Brimstone is active. I felt it to be more clear and easy to understand than saying "apply Fire and Brimstone and then use Immolate" each time. If more feel like you do, I could re-clarify the guide.

[gahhda 95]

Thanks for the words. As for Rain of Fire, yeah...I hope it gets taken out. Not that I want Destruction nerfed, but at high levels of Haste (I'm at 11500 rating), keeping it up is super annoying and feels...clunky at best.

Soon, Fire and Brimstone won't be as clunky. In mass AoE situations like Tortos and Primoridus, you'll just leave Fire and Brimstone up allowing you to spam your spells harder. This will be a huge increase as trying to time it perfectly will sometimes cause you to fire out a single Incinerate instead of the FnB version. I REALLY welcome this soon-to-come change.

As for your mana situation, high levels of haste regenerate your mana like there is no tomorrow. At lower levels of gear, you can be in a bad situation with mana if you make errors in your rotation. Thankfully, the bad place doesn't last as long.

Fire and Brimstone:Immolate is the terminology for using Immolate while Fire and Brimstone is active. I felt it to be more clear and easy to understand than saying "apply Fire and Brimstone and then use Immolate" each time. If more feel like you do, I could re-clarify the guide.

I liked RoF when it was a skill cap, because I like almost every skill cap in the game.

He mentioned shifting embers elsewhere to compensate for the, apparently, unintentional buff to the ember generation of RoF this patch, which I'm not even sure he realizes has happened, and is the only thing making destruction viable.

To which, I propose the question, how would that fix the facts that RoF both scales better with spell power, and haste? The more haste we get (FUCKING RPPM), the more valuable RoF becomes versus incinerate. The more spell power from gear, the wider the gap becomes in the raw damage. RoF also prevents mana capping during CB/SB dumping...

I feel like they're completely separated from how destruction actually functions in game...its like they don't even comprehend why we used it in the first place. They created the spec in a way that seemingly only supports RoF being used, and then bitch at us when we use it, and then buff it...and then bitch more..... Shit like this is why blizzard gets such a bad reputation with regards to community outreach...

Edited May 2, 2013 by gahhda

[Zagam 1,982]

Blizzard makes their own changes and then doesn't support it through math. My latest grievance with them is their CLEARLY obvious tactic of using the legendary meta gem to balance DPS specs. Watching some DPS classes require the meta gem to be competitive with those that don't really need it is beyond ridiculous. They won't release their methods of DPS balance and claim that Simulationcraft and DPS meters in game are not reliable sources of data collection and analysis. Well excuse the hell out of us for trying to find some way to evaluate how good of a job you are doing what you say you'll do.

[Owewa 3]

Fire and Brimstone:Immolate is the terminology for using Immolate while Fire and Brimstone is active. I felt it to be more clear and easy to understand than saying "apply Fire and Brimstone and then use Immolate" each time. If more feel like you do, I could re-clarify the guide.

The guide is more a reference than a tutorial now that everyone knows everything, so edits aren't necessary.

However, if I had seen

Your typical AoE priority will be the following:

1) cast Rain of Fire

2) cast Fire and Brimstone, cast Immolate

3) cast Fire and Brimstone, cast Conflagrate

4) cast Fire and Brimstone, cast Incinerate

I would have understood it immediately.

Anyway:

When is the damage from a Chaos Bolt established: when the cast starts, when it ends, or when it hits? The answer to this has changed over time, I'm not sure what it is now.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Owewa

[Zagam 1,982]

Chaos Bolt damage is calculated at the end of the cast, just as its leaving your character. Crit chance, spell power, Haste, and all that jazz are snapshotted right as soon as the spell cast is completed.

[Rrasis 13]

not sure if this has been discussed but the amount of embers your chaos bolt takes is determined at the beginning, so you can start your cast at .1 seconds left of Dark soul and it will only cost the .8 I can normally fit 7+ chaos bolts in per Dark Soul

[Moozedude 47]

So, here's a random question that I haven't seen answered in any of the destro threads: What's the magic haste breakpoint for the 1-sec incinerate? Everyone says they don't want under one second, because then you're waiting for the gcd. But nobody's dropped the actual number in our laps. I can find breakpoints for RoF and Immolate. And would it be better to figure lusted, or reach much higher and go all the time?

[JvChequer 43]

The "haste cap" for Incinerate with 1sec cast in Bloodlust/LMG/Blackdraft would be good.

[Zagam 1,982]

Give me a couple of minutes and I'll calculate it.

[Zagam 1,982]

Alright, let's do this. Mind you, this formula can be used to find all your breakpoints.

Cast time = (Base Cast Time) / (1 + Haste %)

Incinerate is a base 2.0 sec cast. Therefore, the total Haste needed to bring it to 1.0 second could be calculated this way:

1.0 = (2.0) / (1 + x) -> x = 1, or 100% Haste. However, there are many factors that go into this calculation. For this, I will calculate it assuming 5% Haste in the raid.

WITH BACKDRAFT

Base Cast Time = 2.0 / (1x1.05) = 2/1.05 = 1.904762 sec. Backdraft reduces cast time by 30%, not to be confused by giving you 30% Haste. This cast time of 1.907462 is now reduced by 30%. 1.907462 x 0.70 = 1.3352234 sec. Therefore;

1.0 = (1.3352234) / (1 + x) -> x = 0.3352234 or 33.52234%.

33.52234% = 14,247 Haste Rating

WITH BACKDRAFT + BLOODLUST/TEMPUS REPIT

Base Cast Time = 2.0 / (1x1.05x1.30) = 1.4652015 sec. Backdraft reduces cast time by 30%. Therefore, 1.4652015 x 0.7 = 1.025641 sec.

1.0 = (1.025641) / (1 + x ) -> 0.025641 or 2.5641%

2.5641% = 1,090 Haste Rating

WITH BACKDRAFT + BLOODLUST + TEMPUS REPIT + BERSERKING

Base Cast Time = 2.0 / (1x1.05x1.3x1.3x1.2) = 0.939231 sec. Backdraft reduces cast time by 30%. Therefore, 0.939232 x 0.7 = 0.65746 sec

0 Haste Rating

WITHOUT BACKDRAFT

1.0 = (1.904702) / (1 + x ) -> x = 0.904702 or 90.4702%

90.4702% = 38,450 Rating

WITHOUT BACKDRAFT + BLOODLUST

1.0 = 1.4652015 / (1 + x ) -> x = 0.4652015 or 46.52015%

46.52015% = 19,772 Rating

If my math isn't retardedly wrong, it would appear that it's theoretically possible to get to 1.0 sec Incinerate casts with Backdraft. It would require almost a full Haste reforge to get to 14,247 Rating. However, with this rating, you'd be severely under 1.0 sec cast with Bloodlust or Tempus Repit. Calculating in the Tempus Repit/Bloodlust time, it looks like requiring a paltry 1,090 Rating gets you there. Since it's likely impossible to get under that value, you should be seeing 1.0 or less cast time Incinerates under Bloodlust at any item level given you have the raid Haste buff.

Also to note, without Backdraft, even with Bloodlust, you'll need an unobtainable amount of Haste to reach the 1.0 sec cast time. However, in the next tier, this may be possible, although the high mana cost of Incinerate without Backdraft may not allow such casting behavior.

[JvChequer 43]

Worth reach at 14,247 Haste Rating then not use Blackdraft to cast Incinerate when LMG or Bloodlust is UP?

U could spend your Incinerate with Chaos Bolt until LMG/BL goes off.

[Zagam 1,982]

That would add a serious amount of micro management to Destruction. The TL;DR of this should be go Mastery heavy. It's too easy to drop your spammer down below 1.0 sec.

[gahhda 95]

That would add a serious amount of micro management to Destruction. The TL;DR of this should be go Mastery heavy. It's too easy to drop your spammer down below 1.0 sec.

Completely irrelephant with a massive number of globals being spent on RoF and tempus repit only having a ~15-16% uptime in full haste stacked gear.

My RoF in my opener lasts like 3 seconds, thats every 3rd global <_<.

[Nobleshield 15]

Quick question about the opening "rotation" after I've experimented a bit more. I can usually only get 1x Chaos Bolt out before Immolate gets to the point where it will fall off before I can cast my second Chaos Bolt; in this case should I cast the 2nd Chaos Bolt and let Immolate drop off for a second, or refresh Immolate and then do the second Chaos Bolt? Does that actually matter? I'm trying to follow the priority but I can't seem to eke past like 53k damage outside of AOE fights. I think I'm not using enough Chaos Bolts, but I only have LFR Light of the Cosmos and LFR Essence of Terror as trinkets, and often I'll be > 3 embers without any procs coming up so I have to toss out a Chaos Bolt to avoid capping.

[obleak 10]

Tossing out a choas bolt to avoid clipping is a dps gain. Sitting at full embers and just casting your rotation (without CB) is a decrease. I'm not sure what you're doing wrong. Do you have logs and a link to your character we could look at? :)

[Nobleshield 15]

Nothing other than LFR which doesn't give a good indication. If my guild does a raid tonight (Jin'rokh and T14 probably) I'll try to get some from that.

It might just be gear

http://us.battle.net...n/Marbas/simple

Edited May 20, 2013 by wayniac

[Cruzan 71]

Quick question about the opening "rotation" after I've experimented a bit more. I can usually only get 1x Chaos Bolt out before Immolate gets to the point where it will fall off before I can cast my second Chaos Bolt; in this case should I cast the 2nd Chaos Bolt and let Immolate drop off for a second, or refresh Immolate and then do the second Chaos Bolt? Does that actually matter? I'm trying to follow the priority but I can't seem to eke past like 53k damage outside of AOE fights. I think I'm not using enough Chaos Bolts, but I only have LFR Light of the Cosmos and LFR Essence of Terror as trinkets, and often I'll be > 3 embers without any procs coming up so I have to toss out a Chaos Bolt to avoid capping.

So are we talking strictly during the opener here? I dug up some of my old gear out of the bank to match your trinkets/meta gem/haste rating to test the opener. With 3400 haste and the same trinkets I could squeak in two CBs before immolate expires. That was without Essence of Terror proccing. It's going to depend on how fast you can string the opener together, but if you cast Immo immediately after that 2nd CB it wont have dropped off for more than a second. It won't even be an issue with Essence proccing. What is the exact opening sequence that you're using?

Edited May 20, 2013 by Cruzan

[Nobleshield 15]

I'm using:

Curse of Elements > Dark Soul > Immolate > Conflagrate x2 > Incinerate x4-6 (most of the time I have to use all 6 to get enough Embers) > Chaos Bolt (Immolate hits around 6 seconds here) > Chaos Bolt (Immolate falls off mid-cast).

It seems from a few tries on a dummy that if I get lucky and get 2x Embers on 4 Incinerates I can push out two Chaos Bolts and Immolate just drops for a second, but if I get unlucky and have to use all 6, Immolate will fall off in the middle of my second Chaos Bolt so it's around 2 seconds or maybe a bit more that it's off. Being new to Warlock I'm not sure if that's a huge thing.

Edited May 21, 2013 by wayniac

[Cruzan 71]

Toss a Rain of Fire in after your first Immolate. Should solve your Ember issues to where you'll only need 4x Incinerates. It is a little RNG based, but more often than not you'll have 2 embers after 4 Incinerates.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Cruzan

[Nobleshield 15]

I'll try that, thanks.

For deeper analysis I logged a Terrace LFR run; I improved a bit but I'm probably still missing a few things that could improve my DPS. I know my DPS dropped like a stone on Tsulong and Lei Shei due to the periods without a lot of damage going on.

http://www.worldoflo...5mc9kwupmjtj2i/ (Marbas)

Edited May 21, 2013 by wayniac

[Cruzan 71]

"Permission Denied"

Need to make your logs Public then you'll be good to go!