5.4 Destruction Tips and Quirks

[Zagam 1,982]

Wouldn't matter, it'd be ignored. 

[Omaric 246]

Alternatively "Stop focusing so much on secondary stats and start focusing on perfecting your playstyle!".

 

I don't think that's been said more than it's been said in these forums.  It's not really something people believe or identify with.  Nobody wants to think that they're at fault for lower performance.  :D

[Hexzion 3]

Quick question.

 

Is there an ilvl with PBI and Wush that using GoSac over GoSup is a better idea? 

 

I've tried like mad to get KTT, but no luck yet.  Currently ilvl 558 (but that might go up a point with valor upgrades).

 

I know it's been discussed that once you get KTT, GoSac is better, but I've seen other 'locks at 557 using GoSac without it.

 

Is there a consensus?

 

Edit (question is for Destruction, but, does it also apply to Aff?)

Edited November 1, 2013 by Hexzion

[Zagam 1,982]

Sac = Supr essentially without KTT.  Sac pets.  If Hunters could sacrifice their pets, they would.  Pet pathing is still retarded.  They should spend an expansion reworking pets.

 

You want Supremacy for Affliction.

[Hexzion 3]

Is it odd that I feel giddy about receiving a response from you Zagam?  Such an honor....

 

Anyway, I humbly suggest that under section 16 Glyphs and Talents, something is mentioned there.  If GoSac is the way it should be for Destruction at any ilvl (or at least at whatever ilvl is should be) then I've been doing it wrong (wrong-ish) and that information would be helpful for anyone checking out the guide.

 

Thanks for the help!

[Zagam 1,982]

Is it odd that I feel giddy about receiving a response from you Zagam?  Such an honor....

 

Anyway, I humbly suggest that under section 16 Glyphs and Talents, something is mentioned there.  If GoSac is the way it should be for Destruction at any ilvl (or at least at whatever ilvl is should be) then I've been doing it wrong (wrong-ish) and that information would be helpful for anyone checking out the guide.

 

Thanks for the help!

I put my pants on the same way you do, man.  One leg at a time.  I'm really not that great...I just use Icy-Veins as a medium to offer whatever help I can. 

 

I'll update it.  Things change dynamically and sometimes I neglect the guide.  Thanks for pointing it out and reinforcing that I, too, am human and make mistakes. :)

[Watermasta 7]

Stop lying Zagam, You demonic portal into your pants .

[Hexzion 3]

I put my pants on the same way you do, man.  One leg at a time.  I'm really not that great...I just use Icy-Veins as a medium to offer whatever help I can. 

 

I'll update it.  Things change dynamically and sometimes I neglect the guide.  Thanks for pointing it out and reinforcing that I, too, am human and make mistakes.

 

You know, it's probably because the typical response on other forums is RTFM.  Instead, here, people take the time to answer the questions.  It's something I appreciate; you put more time into answering actual questions than updating the guide and calling it a day.  I do however, try to read the guides that someone took the time to do, before asking a question, and noticed it wasn't there.  I did find the answer I was looking for to a degree, but there wasn't anything in the answer that specified a target ilvl for switching from GoSup to GoSac.  Maybe that's because there isn't.  If you're in 496 timeless purples going destruction, you should be using GoSac.  Not sure.  That's part of why I asked. 

 

As someone who doesn't post much, but tries to read all I can, I want to say thanks for ALL of the info and advice this community discusses.  It HAS made me a better Warlock.

[Twinkielock 15]

I know roughly Sac = Sup for talents. If you take Sac, should you wait between Chaos Bolts to get the full effect from the dot? If you have 3 full embers, and favorable procs are you better off to cast all 3 bolts back to back?

[Omaric 246]

Correct, although KTT pushes GoSac a bit ahead at a certain ilvl that I couldn't confidently say.  I believe the DoT's from CB roll into each other like Ignite for Fire Mages.  And yes, absolutely unleash as many CB's as possible in windows where you have many stacked buffs.

[Kazistrasz 216]

There are only two ways for Chaos Bolt to clip itself (both have to be firing two back-to-back):

 

You use two back-to-back consuming Backdraft charges (which you shouldn't do), or you have some sort of haste proc when casting the second that you didn't when you cast the first one (e.g., Tempus Repit).

[Ilion 8]

I know roughly Sac = Sup for talents. If you take Sac, should you wait between Chaos Bolts to get the full effect from the dot? If you have 3 full embers, and favorable procs are you better off to cast all 3 bolts back to back?

 

 

Unleash Hell, only bother about CB clipping if it won' make your procs go to waste.

[Nytemare 2]

I have both PBI and KTT (LFR - grr not getting normal ones), do I want GoSac or keep using GoSupr?

[Annoroth 5]

The 5% Haste buff does not, but Mastery buff definitely does. (This is why Demo DS is 30% mastery instead of 18k, 'cause that would have gotten it too).

True, that's why it was changed to begin with though,

 

 

You're ignoring the perfect timing of the ICD int proc and when doing this calculation you also need to account for raid buffs. Not sure about the others but I know Might counts for the PBI.

 

For the unaware, it's largely because PBI's large int proc lines up almost perfectly with DS. Combining the haste with a large amount of Int is a significant DPS boost. 

[Ilion 8]

Zagam really should open a thread and fixed with the title saying "DESTRO STATS = MASTERY > CRIT =~ Haste"

 

 

And a Pony image inside the thread.

 

 

If Zagam says black is white, 99% of the random locks that visit this forums will say black is white.

 

If he says that secondary stats are not determinant, they will just ignore him.

 

 

@Nytemare, if you've got KTT you should go GoSac, but then again, you may not notice much of a difference because of it being a low ilvl trinket.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Ilion

[Kazistrasz 216]

Take whatever the % chance is of a multistrike. Divide that by 3. That's how much of an increase on your DPS you will see from that trinket. Even a 536 version is something like 4%

[Wolland 1]

Pet pathing is still retarded.  They should spend an expansion reworking pets.

 

 

My guardian spent all his time just staring at the Paragons last night, without shooting one single bolt at any of them, LITERALLY.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Wolland

[Zagam 1,982]

If Zagam says black is white, 99% of the random locks that visit this forums will say black is white.

 

If he says that secondary stats are not determinant, they will just ignore him.

 

 

@Nytemare, if you've got KTT you should go GoSac, but then again, you may not notice much of a difference because of it being a low ilvl trinket.

The solution to this potential problem is I would never tell anyone black is white.  That's just crazy.  I don't just make blanket statements without explaining them.  In reference to what this comment was referencing, I think I've already told people how much secondary stats mean. 

 

My guardian spent all his time just staring at the Paragons last night, without shooting one single bolt at any of them, LITERALLY.

Referring to your Doomguard?  First time I've EVER heard him be referred to as a 'Guardian."  He certainly doesn't feel like one.  What you're seeing is a known bug I've reported a hundred times before but, just like the Gateway, remains unresolved.  Your Doomguard is summoned and has a fixate type mechanic...if his target dies, he will stand there and watch you for the remainder of his duration.  Deal with this by making sure whatever he is hitting remains alive for his entire duration.

[Soulzar 42]

There are only two ways for Chaos Bolt to clip itself (both have to be firing two back-to-back):

 

You use two back-to-back consuming Backdraft charges (which you shouldn't do), or you have some sort of haste proc when casting the second that you didn't when you cast the first one (e.g., Tempus Repit).

 

Unleash Hell, only bother about CB clipping if it won' make your procs go to waste.

 

The dot from CB does not clip.  Its a separate dot for each CB.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Soulzar

[JvChequer 43]

Referring to your Doomguard?  First time I've EVER heard him be referred to as a 'Guardian."  He certainly doesn't feel like one.  What you're seeing is a known bug I've reported a hundred times before but, just like the Gateway, remains unresolved.  Your Doomguard is summoned and has a fixate type mechanic...if his target dies, he will stand there and watch you for the remainder of his duration.  Deal with this by making sure whatever he is hitting remains alive for his entire duration.

 

 

Or use the Shitty Infernal for some reason.

[Zagam 1,982]

Or use the Shitty Infernal for some reason.

Never.  Ever.  Use.  Your.  Infernal.  Like...I think the only place this is applicable is the first Nazgrim pull with all those mobs and that's a stretch because the damage done to them is meaningless while your Doomguard could put meaningful damage into Nazgrim.  Infernal Awakening is where all of your damage is coming from...while he's up, he might as well be on vacation, because his melees and Immolation Aura are absolutely worthless.  Maybe use Infernal on Protectors when all those adds are up in Sun's Desperate Measures...

 

Either way, both CDs are crud. 

[Ilion 8]

The dot from CB does not clip.  Its a separate dot for each CB.

 

 

Nope

[Soulzar 42]

Never.  Ever.  Use.  Your.  Infernal.  Like...I think the only place this is applicable is the first Nazgrim pull with all those mobs and that's a stretch because the damage done to them is meaningless while your Doomguard could put meaningful damage into Nazgrim.  Infernal Awakening is where all of your damage is coming from...while he's up, he might as well be on vacation, because his melees and Immolation Aura are absolutely worthless.  Maybe use Infernal on Protectors when all those adds are up in Sun's Desperate Measures...

 

Either way, both CDs are crud. 

 

I am fairly sure Infernal Awakening is boosted by Meta.  It can do a lot of dmg for Demo, however.. again.. no real time you need that AoE dmg.

 

if they do not want to buff them, they should separate the cooldowns so Infernal can be used... sometimes.. at least.

[Omaric 246]

Never.  Ever.  Use.  Your.  Infernal.  Like...I think the only place this is applicable is the first Nazgrim pull with all those mobs and that's a stretch because the damage done to them is meaningless while your Doomguard could put meaningful damage into Nazgrim.  Infernal Awakening is where all of your damage is coming from...while he's up, he might as well be on vacation, because his melees and Immolation Aura are absolutely worthless.  Maybe use Infernal on Protectors when all those adds are up in Sun's Desperate Measures...

 

Either way, both CDs are crud. 

 

I for one am glad that these CD's aren't that spectacular.  I played an Ele Shaman in Cataclysm and I can tell you that having a major chunk of your damage tied to a 10 min CD sucks a lot.  It's better now that large CD's reset on wipes/kills, but it's still a variable.

[Soulzar 42]

Nope

 

Confused to say the least.  I was about to debate this and checked my logs and they are way messed up.  The Coefficient of the Dot looks to be updating based on your SP after the CB has hit?  Perhaps somebody more proficient with expression editor can find out when my procs are dropping to make sense of this for me.

 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-pjkafg88wkvb8nah/

 

[20:23:17.947]  Soulzar begins to cast Chaos Bolt

[20:23:19.263]  Soulzar casts Chaos Bolt on Malkorok

[20:23:20.680]  Soulzar begins to cast Chaos Bolt

[20:23:21.022]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *2090620*

[20:23:21.022] Malkorok afflicted by Chaos Bolt from  Soulzar

[20:23:21.989]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *104625*

[20:23:22.107]  Soulzar casts Chaos Bolt on Malkorok

[20:23:23.006]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *104625*

[20:23:23.876] Malkorok's Chaos Bolt is refreshed by  Soulzar

[20:23:23.876]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *2024069*

[20:23:24.005]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *101154*

[20:23:24.985]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84295*

[20:23:26.015]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84295*

[20:23:27.007]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84295*

[20:23:27.007]  Soulzar's Chaos Bolt fades from Malkorok

 

So here we can see I cast two Chaos Bolts before the dot has run its duration.  

 

2090620 * 0.15 / 3 = 104625 as you would expect.

2024069 * 0.15 / 3 = 101154 as you would expect

 

What the hell is 84295?  Well that is the Dot value for a 1.68m Chaos Bolt, which never happened.  This is the value of my Chaos Bolt with one of my 2 trinkets procs, not both as shown in the 3rd sample.

 

So the above looks like it did not clip as there were 6 ticks ... but it also looks like the CB dot is updating itself based on the Spellpower when it is applied as it is updated to the second Chaos Bolt dot value after it refreshes, however immediately drops in value before the next Chaos bolt hits.  

 

If I am interpreting this correctly, its very broken. However... its not consistent?

 

[21:24:15.283]  Soulzar begins to cast Chaos Bolt

[21:24:16.292]  Soulzar casts Chaos Bolt on Malkorok

[21:24:16.292]  Soulzar begins to cast Chaos Bolt

[21:24:17.757]  Soulzar casts Chaos Bolt on Malkorok

[21:24:18.062]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *2092519*

[21:24:18.062] Malkorok afflicted by Chaos Bolt from  Soulzar

[21:24:19.040]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *104625*

[21:24:19.484] Malkorok's Chaos Bolt is refreshed by  Soulzar

[21:24:19.484]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *2023243*

[21:24:20.052]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *101494*

[21:24:21.022]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *101493*

[21:24:22.063]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84578*

[21:24:23.033]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84578*

[21:24:23.033]  Soulzar's Chaos Bolt fades from Malkorok

 

In this pull, the same thing happens... however one CB dot tick is missing.  Clipped?  I don't know, there looks to be 4 ticks after the second CB hits....and again, the value of the tick decreases. without another Chaos Bolt hit to update/clip/refresh.

 

[21:08:12.886]  Soulzar begins to cast Chaos Bolt

[21:08:13.935]  Soulzar casts Chaos Bolt on Malkorok

[21:08:13.935]  Soulzar begins to cast Chaos Bolt

[21:08:15.386]  Soulzar casts Chaos Bolt on Malkorok

[21:08:15.875] Malkorok afflicted by Chaos Bolt from  Soulzar

[21:08:15.875]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *1687241*

[21:08:16.870]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84295*

[21:08:17.324] Malkorok's Chaos Bolt is refreshed by  Soulzar

[21:08:17.324]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *1684296*

[21:08:17.881]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84578*

[21:08:18.920]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84578*

[21:08:19.862]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84578*

[21:08:20.877]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84578*

[21:08:20.878]  Soulzar's Chaos Bolt fades from Malkorok

 

In this opener, I am not sure what happened.. I probably got knocked up.  but for whatever reason it looks like I only had one of my two trinkets up, my CB's hit for 1.68m instead of 2m... and my dot ticks reflect the lower value correctly.  Notice my dot does not decrease, likely because it was already initially applied after the initial int proc had dropped.  Its the same value as the above examples, for the later ticks... 

 

I wonder if this got changed when they fixed the way they were applying Sac to F&B?

 

I always assumed since my Combat text shows multiple dots when i chain two BC's together, that the dots were unique.. but logs show they are not.. and look to be updating dynamically with SP.