5.4 Destruction Tips and Quirks

[Orthios 271]

I took 2.00 * 24.62% (my current haste self buff) which then get 0.4924. Now retook 2.00 second cast from Incinerate (that what you have on chart) and minus it and got 1.51 sec cast Incinerate. Yet game says it has a 1.61 cast. So unsure what I am missing

What your missing is the equation for cast time.  Cast Time = (Base Cast Time) / (1+Haste)  for your 24.62% haste and incinerate's base cast time of 2.00 seconds, it will look like this for you: Cast Time = (2.00)/(1+.2462) = 1.6049.  WoW rounds this up on the tooltip to say 1.61 seconds.  

 

If you wanted to find the cast time for CB under multiple haste effects, you have to remember that they are multiplicative.  So with Meta, BL/Hero, and Lifeblood, your haste will look like this: Haste = (1.2462 (base))*(1.3(BL/Hero))*(1.3(Meta))*((((2880/425)/100)+1) (Lifeblood)) = 2.2488, or 224.88% haste.

Your CB cast time would then look like this: 3/(3.2488) = 0.923 seconds.  

Edited August 27, 2014 by Orthios

[Nytemare 2]

What your missing is the equation for cast time.  Cast Time = (Base Cast Time) / (1+Haste)  for your 24.62% haste and incinerate's base cast time of 2.00 seconds, it will look like this for you: Cast Time = (2.00)/(1+.2462) = 1.6049.  WoW rounds this up on the tooltip to say 1.61 seconds.  

 

thanks so much. Strange wow would round that up on toolip when we been teached to round down if under 5 so 1.6049 should really be 1.60 not 1.61 lol.

 

So using your example to figure out CB cast time with just Lifeblood + Raid Haste I would do

 

Cast Time = (3.00)/(1+.3085 +.2880) right? 30.85 what I have with 5% raid haste, and LB = 2880

that should equal 1.8791 round to 1.9 Cast speed. Did I do that correctly?

 

to add meta all I got to do is add 30% into correct? so it then reads Cast Time = (3.00)/(1+.3085 +.2880+.30) = 1.6 correct?

Edited August 27, 2014 by Nytemare

[Orthios 271]

So using your example to figure out CB cast time with just Lifeblood + Raid Haste I would do

 

Cast Time = (3.00)/(1+.3085 +.2880) right? 30.85 what I have with 5% raid haste, and LB = 2880

that should equal 1.8791 round to 1.9 Cast speed. Did I do that correctly?

 

to add meta all I got to do is add 30% into correct? so it then reads Cast Time = (3.00)/(1+.3085 +.2880+.30)

Not quite.  First off, Lifeblood adds 2880 Haste Rating.  This in turn translates to (2880/425) = 6.776% haste.  Second, haste buffs are multiplicative, meaning with each haste buff multiplies how much haste you have, not just gets added on.  So, your base haste (with raid buff) of 30.85%, and Lifeblood (6.776% haste) are multiplied together to get (1.3085 (base haste))*(1.06776 (lifeblood)) = 1.39717, or 39.712% haste.  To add meta (or hero/lust) buff, you would then multiply this value by 1.3.  You then take this value as your denominator for calculating cast times.  

[Nytemare 2]

Not quite.  First off, Lifeblood adds 2880 Haste Rating.  This in turn translates to (2880/425) = 6.776% haste.  Second, haste buffs are multiplicative, meaning with each haste buff multiplies how much haste you have, not just gets added on.  So, your base haste (with raid buff) of 30.85%, and Lifeblood (6.776% haste) are multiplied together to get (1.3085 (base haste))*(1.06776 (lifeblood)) = 1.39717, or 39.712% haste.  To add meta (or hero/lust) buff, you would then multiply this value by 1.3.  You then take this value as your denominator for calculating cast times.  

 

how did you get 2880/425? where the 425 coming from? if its the average I get 480 not 425

 

So using what you gave me I would have

 

CB Cast Time  (3.00) / (1.3085 * 1.06776 * 1.30) = 1.65 / 1.7 correct? With Currently Haste(w/raid) + Meta + LB

[Orthios 271]

how did you get 2880/425? where the 425 coming from? if its the average I get 480 not 425

 

So using what you gave me I would have

 

CB Cast Time  (3.00) / (1.3085 * 1.06776 * 1.30) = 1.65 / 1.7 correct? With Currently Haste(w/raid) + Meta + LB

425 is the amount of haste rating you need to get 1% of haste.  Since Lifeblood gives 2880 haste rating, this gets translated into 6.776% of haste.  And yes, with those buffs your CB cast time would be 1.65 seconds.

[Nytemare 2]

425 is the amount of haste rating you need to get 1% of haste.  Since Lifeblood gives 2880 haste rating, this gets translated into 6.776% of haste.  And yes, with those buffs your CB cast time would be 1.65 seconds.

 

without meta just raid buff my CB = 2.292 so 2.29 with Meta that goes to 1.763 so 1.76 and if I take Herb it will get to 1.65

 

2.29 w/ Raid + Self Haste

1.76 w/ Raid+Self Haste + Meta

1.65 w/Raid+Self+Meta+LB

1.27 w/Raid +Self + Meta+LB+Hero 

 

wow that pretty fast CB then

 

 

Meta is always best over the Primal Diamond right? as mention the 3% crit damage bonus = 6% CB damage, so does the Meta still beat that? I assume yes, while waiting for replies I been read lock forums and other sites, and see it mention that Meta is not better then Primal Diamond for Destro.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Nytemare

[Zagam 1,982]

Nyte, you're putting too much of an emphasis on cast times.  Just follow the rules of Destruction with a small caveot of trying not to use Conflagrate while Tempus Repit is up.  It's ok if you do.  Consider it one of those 'final tuning' methods of maximizing your DPS.  Also, use the Primal.  There was a debate about Burning vs Primal Diamond, but overall feelings were that you don't JUST focus on Chaos Bolt.  Mini Bloodlusts are beneficial to lots of things including Immolate, Rain of Fire, Incinerate, and Chaos Bolt casts.

 

Thanks, Orthios, for breaking math down for him. 

[Nytemare 2]

Nyte, you're putting too much of an emphasis on cast times.  Just follow the rules of Destruction with a small caveot of trying not to use Conflagrate while Tempus Repit is up.  It's ok if you do.  Consider it one of those 'final tuning' methods of maximizing your DPS.  Also, use the Primal.  There was a debate about Burning vs Primal Diamond, but overall feelings were that you don't JUST focus on Chaos Bolt.  Mini Bloodlusts are beneficial to lots of things including Immolate, Rain of Fire, Incinerate, and Chaos Bolt casts.

 

Thanks, Orthios, for breaking math down for him. 

 

Yes thanks for helping me. Well I just wanted to get all the ends and outs, so I wanted to know all of this. Yeah been practicing not using Conflag outside in the world when I am rare hunting if I see Meta proc, come my raid this Sat/Sun when we try to push 7/14H by getting DS and General down I can put out little more dps.

 

Yeah I use the Meta gem, have since I got it. Never even crossed my mind that it might not be worth it, figure it was like the cloak, you want it regardless. Then I saw the debate so I asked.

[Nytemare 2]

Which is better as a JC, Pure Int eye, or Pure Mastery Eye? I thinking it since we gem all mastery, so replacing a lesser master one with a big one for what a 320 gain is good?

[Liquidsteel 279]

No, gem intellect because Intellect > Mastery point for point.

 

2x Mastery is better than 1x Intellect, however the JC secondary stat gems don't give double the value of the intellect gems, unlike their regular counterparts. 

[Nytemare 2]

Just got BBoY normal version from our Garry kill. Currently have heroic PBI, and Normal non-warforged KTT. You say BBoY  can be better than KTT if properly utilized. to properly utilled it you talking about making sure to have a CB go off at 9-10 stack always right?

[Liquidsteel 279]

BBoY can be better than KTT, just as KTT can be better than BBoY. Both are subject to RNG and fight mechanics.

We went over this in detail previously. I'm still sticking with my stance that if you aren't 14/14H yet you should stick with KTT as it requires far less micro management, meaning you won't get distracted from the fight mechanics or waste BBoY procs because of them.

[Lockybalboa 618]

You say BBoY  can be better than KTT if properly utilized. to properly utilled it you talking about making sure to have a CB go off at 9-10 stack always right?

 

 

It's more then that, it's the in fight complexity that BBoY adds also. You need to not just get it good the first time, you need to do it just about EVERY time. And that can be a little problematic in a lot of situations in heroic raiding.

 

For me, it's easy to use BBoY because I've been farming full heroic content for 6 months now, there is nothing new that happens. I can do most of the fights in my sleep and with almost no movement.  I know what is going to happen 10 steps in advance and can plan accordingly. 

 

I agree with Liquidsteel, unless you're farming 14/14hm, I don't recommend using BBoY. Or at the very least don't use it on non-farm fights. Anything involving progression I wouldn't touch BBoY for, also if you got a heroic KTT to replace your reg BBoY I would do it, farm or progression ilvl wins 99% of the time.

[Nytemare 2]

It's more then that, it's the in fight complexity that BBoY adds also. You need to not just get it good the first time, you need to do it just about EVERY time. And that can be a little problematic in a lot of situations in heroic raiding.

 

For me, it's easy to use BBoY because I've been farming full heroic content for 6 months now, there is nothing new that happens. I can do most of the fights in my sleep and with almost no movement.  I know what is going to happen 10 steps in advance and can plan accordingly. 

 

I agree with Liquidsteel, unless you're farming 14/14hm, I don't recommend using BBoY. Or at the very least don't use it on non-farm fights. Anything involving progression I wouldn't touch BBoY for, also if you got a heroic KTT to replace your reg BBoY I would do it, farm or progression ilvl wins 99% of the time.

 

Currently we have first five bosses on farm, I know them. We just got to 6/14 by downing DS for the first time this Sunday. We only have two healers, so we not geared enough to heal Heroic IJ, we can get him to 35-40% in p1, but come seige healers can't keep us alive. So for the most part first 6 bosses I know what going to happen. From DS-Garry on normal we have on farm. DS being new I could get heroic KTT next week or five weeks from now.

 

So BBoY is good on bosses that are farmed, and progression ones stick to KTT. Of course I know if I get heroic KTT to use it, but who knows when that will happen. Just got heroic PBI after 8 weeks doing him.

[Liquidsteel 279]

You're really thinking too much about it and taking these 'guidelines' too literally. They aren't rules and you shouldn't take what you read as gospel.

 

You should try out both trinkets and see how you like them yourself. You might love the BBoY play style and stick with it, or similarly you might find you're shit at managing the proc and end up doing less damage than you would with the KTT. It's all subjective.

 

Just because you have normal on farm doesn't mean that swapping to BBoY will magically boost your DPS. BBoY is NOT better than KTT, nor is KTT better than BBoY. They both have advantages and disadvantages to compensate for their strengths. Play around with them and decide for yourself which one you prefer and which one you get the most use out of.

[Nytemare 2]

Not where I was coming from. Currently I have non-warforged KTT 4/4, just got BBoy I was trying to figure out if it worth using, thus wasting 1K valor to fully upgrade, or just stick to what I have. We will be able to down DS everytime from now on, as once we figure out the strat and do it the first time, we have come in the next week and 1-2 shot the boss and move on. So with possible of heroic KTT coming as early as next week, is BBoY worth it is what trying to figure out. 1K valor is lot that could be used on new Heroic Boots I got from gal, or be saved for a 4/4 of Heroic KTT if I get it (drop/bonus rolled next week)

 

Only trying to figure this out as I am a Destro lock. If I was Affliction/Demo I would upgraded it in a heart beat as I believe its BIS for those spec. Well affliction I am pretty sure it is.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Nytemare

[Liquidsteel 279]

In this instance I would save your valour and keep the BBoY at 0/4 til you get a surplus or decide to switch to Affliction (kinda pointless as in a few weeks it will become the most boring spec in the gane).

[Phenax 12]

BBoY and KTT are pretty close in power level for destro but BBoY is a lot more unforgiving. A good scenario to explain this is if you are targeted by a sawblade on siegecrafter 6 stacks into black blood, it makes it so that you have to move for the rest of the proc and you really don't get much out of it. A KTT proc would still give you a good five seconds to have a pretty buffed chaos bolt. It's also more demanding on you using it correctly just by how the proc works (again, less good times to sink in chaos bolts if you only have two embers). On the 4/5 bosses a week where I do go destro I use KTT because they're movement heavy fights but using BBoY gives you a higher upside in 10-stack chaos bolts and arguably more engaging gameplay.

 

If you don't care about trying aff definitely just upgrade your boots.

[Nytemare 2]

Ah yeah I will not play affliction hated since vanilla, I am a destro/Demo type of lock. So ok that what I wanted to check. I keep KTT and just hold off until next week to see what I get, then upgrade the boots or whatever.

 

Regarding BBoy since I play a frost mage as well, I pretty use to have to time it right, just wanted to see if it was really worth sinking my only 1K valor into it when come next week I could get Heroic KTT

Edited September 16, 2014 by Nytemare