Help! I'm being outperformed by a rival Mage.

[Malqallem 0]

Hello folks. This one's been bothering me for a few weeks and I'm at a loss to explain it, so I turn to you.

Our regular 10-man raid team's had another Mage stand-in for the last few runs, which would ordinarily be no problem, but he's been outdoing me on the dps scales each time.

Some facts:

We're both of a similar gear ilvl, in fact I'm ever so slightly ahead.

We both play Frost and use identical glyph/talent specs.

We're both using the same rotation as recommended on Ice Veins.

This is me: http://eu.battle.net...qallem/advanced

And the log from the last run: http://www.worldoflo...sum/damageDone/

You can see the shape of the graph is pretty similar, yet at every peak he accelerates ahead. The ONLY thing I can think of is he's sporting the 4-piece tier set which reduces the Ice Veins cooldown by half, whereas I have to be a bit more discerning about when I use it.

Any advice will be gratefully received.

[Gravyspasm 70]

did you get the electric orb every time on jin'rokh?

[Malqallem 0]

did you get the electric orb every time on jin'rokh?

It's possible I was just unlucky that night, I can't recall it being unfair though.

[Gravyspasm 70]

It's possible I was just unlucky that night, I can't recall it being unfair though.

oh, yeah, you both got it 4 times. hrm. see, i dont mage, so i d on't know anything about you cats...but that first ToT fight is just a straight nuke, so i can wrap my head around that. and being beat by 30K...that can't be the 4 piece alone, can it?

[vain 0]

just looking at uptime/frostbolt casts, He's doing more than you are. If you're required to move from something, move just as much as you need to and start casting again asap. Also why are you guys using frost bomb? NT is the way to go always. I'd also replace that EoT with a relic. even unupgraded relic's really low icd makes it way better than EoT.

[Malqallem 0]

Maybe he's just MEGA EFFICIENT. The only thing I can think of is if he's popping a glyphed Icy Veins twice as often as me, that's a pretty solid DPS increase. Vain, I'll try your suggestions tonight and see if they make a noticeable difference.

[Sagetastic 20]

NT is the way to go always

This is debateable, but it is preferred for most fights.

~Sage

[Vladamyr 169]

Malqallem, for the Jin'rokh fight you have 2 things that need fixed:

The 1st is you only gained Invoker's Energy 1 time for a 38% uptime. It is absolutely critical that you keep the Invoker's Energy buff up, it is a huge dps increase - Tatsu had a 94.3% uptime.

The 2nd is minor but it's simply uptime on the boss. He's getting off more casts, his uptime is 97.6% vs your 83.3%. He's also got several more crits than you but this could simply be some rng.

The only other thing that might be a major dps difference is your amount of uptime with the Fluidity buff from standing in conductive waters.

To get a better feel for the difference between your gear, I would need to see his gear. Unfortunately he's currently logged out in pvp gear.

Nether Tempest is a minor gain on this fight, use what you like as there isn't that much difference. Personally, I wouldn't waste the money on changing trinkets just wait for an upgrade.

[Damien 1,514]

Malqallem, for the Jin'rokh fight you have 2 things that need fixed:

The 1st is you only gained Invoker's Energy 1 time for a 38% uptime. It is absolutely critical that you keep the Invoker's Energy buff up, it is a huge dps increase - Tatsu had a 94.3% uptime.

The 2nd is minor but it's simply uptime on the boss. He's getting off more casts, his uptime is 97.6% vs your 83.3%. He's also got several more crits than you but this could simply be some rng.

The only other thing that might be a major dps difference is your amount of uptime with the Fluidity buff from standing in conductive waters.

To get a better feel for the difference between your gear, I would need to see his gear. Unfortunately he's currently logged out in pvp gear.

Nether Tempest is a minor gain on this fight, use what you like as there isn't that much difference. Personally, I wouldn't waste the money on changing trinkets just wait for an upgrade.

It's really as Vladamyr says. Your uptime on Invoker's Energy needs to be improved and so does your uptime on the boss. All you really need to do is to focus on these two things and you will see, your DPS will improve.

[Malqallem 0]

It's really as Vladamyr says. Your uptime on Invoker's Energy needs to be improved and so does your uptime on the boss. All you really need to do is to focus on these two things and you will see, your DPS will improve.

This probably applies to all the fights, I'll try to keep an eye on it. Thanks guys.

[Sagetastic 20]

This probably applies to all the fights, I'll try to keep an eye on it. Thanks guys.

That's what we're here for. :>

I still haven't had the chance to play with the buffed frost mage, and Damien knows that is killing me. SOON I SAY, SOON. Also, I have some friends in top guilds telling me of these fights that I wanna experience for myself.

I'm jelly of all of you right now.

~Sage

[Malqallem 0]

That's what we're here for. :>

I still haven't had the chance to play with the buffed frost mage, and Damien knows that is killing me. SOON I SAY, SOON. Also, I have some friends in top guilds telling me of these fights that I wanna experience for myself.

I'm jelly of all of you right now.

~Sage

Just don't volunteer for any kind of moving around, ever! :)

[Scook999 8]

One other point: use of Frostbomb. I noticed any mage that does more damage than me has a greater uptime on Frostbomb (or whatever Tier 5 talent you wish to use). So on top of worrying about your Tier 6 uptime, look for your Tier 5 uptime too; that is huge, and will take work. I figured this out a month ago and still am working to correct this.

[Sagetastic 20]

I noticed any mage that does more damage than me has a greater uptime on Frostbomb

Fbomb uptime can be a pain, I made a weakaura that I'd be willing to share that helps with its uptime for those having trouble.

I'd share it, I just won't be able to until this weekend. Getting gametime soon :>>>>

~Sage

[Sagetastic 20]

Just don't volunteer for any kind of moving around, ever!

I meant to add this into my original post, but I am the type to volunteer for such a job cause I can't trust anyone else to do it better.

Arrogant, I know - I don't care. I'm good at mobility, that's what counts.

~Sage

[Vladamyr 169]

Fbomb uptime can be a pain, I made a weakaura that I'd be willing to share that helps with its uptime for those having trouble.

I'd share it, I just won't be able to until this weekend. Getting gametime soon :>>>>

~Sage

Yeah, I do this too Sage! I actually have 2 auras for my frost bomb. The first one is a bar timer to aid me in timing my casts around it's cooldown and the second is an icon that alerts me to the fact that Frost Bomb is off cooldown and needs to be cast. It's a little redundant but it makes sure my Frost Bomb uptime is very high.

I don't know where the proper place to share Weak Auras is but if anyone wants my sets, I would be happy to post them and you can then edit them however you want. I have Weak Auras for Blazing Speed, Ice Barrier, Frost Bomb, Invocation, Incanters Ward and a few for specific raid mechanics (Fluidity, Primal Nutriments). I particularly like the Ice Barrier and Incanters Ward auras as they show when the shield is active and on cooldown (so when they are not on the screen, it means you can activate them)

[Sagetastic 20]

Yeah, I don't know where the proper place to share Weak Auras is but if anyone wants my sets, I would be happy to post them and you can then edit them however you want.

Well seeing as to how big the WA import/export text blocks are, if this forum had the "spoiler" hide formatting, that would be perfect for sharing, IMO.

I'd even start a thread for it!

<3 Weak Auras

~Sage

[Malqallem 0]

Weak Auras, eh? I'll have to investigate that one. I'm using Scorchio timer bars to keep an eye on bombs/procs (which are admittedly less responsive) but if WA can add a second or two of uptime then I'm all for it.

[Sagetastic 20]

Weak Auras, eh? I'll have to investigate that one. I'm using Scorchio timer bars to keep an eye on bombs/procs (which are admittedly less responsive) but if WA can add a second or two of uptime then I'm all for it.

I was wanting to make a thread for things like weak auras and such a while back. I'll see if I can fix up a nice post for people to contribute to finally. This forum needs it imo.

~Sage

[Mageisty 4]

Another neat little trick is to use your cd's at the right time. I see mages popping their orbs right off the bat when It's better to get 3 stacks of the frost bolt effect up first. Also, and keep this one secret, when you do pop your IV (in combo with your frost fire bolt proc'd by Frost Bomb in concert with your alter time) after popping a Jade pot because it boosts your DPS tremendously. Keep that a secret, I don't want that getting out there.

I also see that frost mages spec'd with Nether Tempest seem to out dps those with Frost bomb. well at least on 1 occasion / boss fight. and the mage was ilvl 508 which was 9 lvls above me. So that played a part

[Malqallem 0]

I tweaked my talents, mastered my macros, bought my best-in-slot and was all set for an epic Mage-off. Then he buggered off to another team.

So let's pretend I totally wiped the floor with him and put that one to bed.

As an aside, what are your feelings on Fire as a comparable raiding spec? I've heard it said if you can reforge your crit to about 30% you're better off going fire. Any truth to this one?

[benjam1997 18]

i play frost, and it all depends on your spell damages, as frost you more or less always crit, howehter, he may have has the odd few extra criticals than you did, and they are never the same damage hit twice as frost, so its just dependent on how hard you hit, how much you keep DoT and how often its refreshed, reforging is another thing

[Mageisty 4]

Your guild sounds pretty ruthless. After joining they make you fight for a spot in raids ? Gladiatorial man.....

Do they at least help you get geared or are you on your own with that as well ?

Edited April 17, 2013 by Mageisty

[owaec 0]

deleted

Edited April 18, 2013 by owaec