Refreshing dots on procs confusion...

[Lexs 0]

Hello all. Okay now I've read a lot of guides and im starting to get confused on how to refresh dots on procs the correct way, now what I normally do when i get a int/trinket proc is that I refresh my dots with ss:sb and again when the proc is one second from expiring no matter if im clipping the dot early or waiting for the 50% mark from Pandemic . Now is this the correct way? or should I refresh with fel flame and just hard cast Agony during procs? Thanks in advance...

[gahhda 95]

Don't use fel flame.

Don't use SB:SS unless its something major (8+ stack wushoolays/unerring vision).

Manually refresh each dot. Its the easiest thing to do because of the fact that each dot has a different duration, and getting all of them sub 50% might take too long to benefit from the snapshot.

[Zagam 1,982]

should I refresh with fel flame...

Ah, HELL NO. Remove Fel Flame from your bars unless you PvP.

just hard cast Agony during procs? Thanks in advance...

Hard cast? It's an instant cast application; it has no cast time.

[Omaric 246]

Hard cast? It's an instant cast application; it has no cast time.

I think he was referring to the fact that since in his scenario Fel Flame would refresh only Corruption/UA a bit, so he'd have to manually use Agony to refresh it.

In any case, don't use Fel Flame and don't let Agony fall off. It will occasionally happen that you manually recast Agony without using SB:SS to save a shard for something else.

[Lexs 0]

Thanks for the replies guys. I've watched the guide from Evrelia that's on mmo's site an he refreshed his Corruption/UA with Fel Flame. I'm guessing that's just at pull during all of his procs, that's were the confusion came in.

[Nobleshield 15]

From what little I know (I'm learning myself), you only use Fel Flame if you have no other way to refresh it and need it refreshed immediately. Like if you don't take Kil'jaeden's Cunning and need to move out of something, or if you can't be slowed for whatever reason. Otherwise you never use Fel Flame to refresh.

I personally (and I could be doing it wrong) use SB:SS to refresh only if I'm at 3 Shards and get a Nightfall and my DoTs are about to fall off (or if I get a proc), or if I need to switch targets (e.g. Celestial Defender on Elegon), and of course during a burn phase since I'm getting Shards back via Soul Drain. Otherwise I refresh them manually outside of things like if I have a trinket line up with Dark Soul in which case I'll use it to get all my powered-up DOTs rolling immedaitely.

[Omaric 246]

KJC is too good not to take and the other options don't perform for Affliction like, say, Mannoroth's Fury does for Destruction on certain fights. Keep KJC, don't use Fel Flame.

[gahhda 95]

Thanks for the replies guys. I've watched the guide from Evrelia that's on mmo's site an he refreshed his Corruption/UA with Fel Flame. I'm guessing that's just at pull during all of his procs, that's were the confusion came in.

Some top affliction locks use fel flame in their OPENER to resnapshot their dots with all the procs before they hit 50%, as to not waste pandemic.

[Draxyl 0]

Ah, HELL NO. Remove Fel Flame from your bars unless you PvP.

There really is absolutely nothing wrong with using Fel Flame in specific situations. It's obviously not supposed to be used as your primary method of refreshing/prolonging DoTs, however it is safe, and beneficial, to use it in situations such as the following:

-Your Unstable Affliction and Corruption were just applied and have a high duration, and you receive a significant proc¹ right after. Cast Fel Flame and Agony.

-Your Unstable Affliction and Corruption are significantly close to 12 seconds left on their duration, but Agony still has a high duration that wont benefit from Pandemic. It's not beneficial to use SB:SS in this situation, you want that shard for Haunt. Cast Fel Flame twice, which is the same as casting Unstable Affliction and Corruption manually, and causes damage.

-Same as above if you receive a significant proc¹, Fel Flame x2 + Agony.

You obviously wont be using Fel Flame if DoTs will benefit from Pandemic.

You wont find yourself doing this a lot, but Fel Flame is worth it when you do find yourself in situations like I mentioned above. It's really annoying reading posts that claim the mana cost is an issue or it's a loss in damage - it isn't. If you want to master Affliction, then you need to learn and accept that Fel Flame is still a useful spell if used correctly. To simply suggest removing it from your action bars and never consider using it is foolish.

¹Significant proc should be recognized as a noticeable and important damage proc, such as WFC x8+, UVLS, BoTH, CYEB, Haste/Bloodlust, etc.

[Cruzan 71]

I can see how your first scenario would probably be a good use of FF. It sucks to just have manually cast my three dots and have some good procs pop up.

Your 2nd and 3rd cases I disagree with.

-Your Unstable Affliction and Corruption are significantly close to 12 seconds left on their duration, but Agony still has a high duration that wont benefit from Pandemic. It's not beneficial to use SB:SS in this situation, you want that shard for Haunt. Cast Fel Flame twice, which is the same as casting Unstable Affliction and Corruption manually, and causes damage.

In this scenario did you just get a proc? If not then I don't see why SB:SS is one of your options. You wouldn't be needing to refresh UA for another 5 seconds to start with and Corruption for 3 seconds (to utilize Pandemic). If you were itching to do something other than channel MG then you would be better off to manually cast Corr to put it back up to a full 27 second duration in one GCD. 2 GCDs + damage from FF gets you a ~22s Corr (5s below max duration if you factor in the GCD time) and a 21s UA (1s wasted since its max duration is 21 and 2GCDs factored in) plus damage. Not optimal play.

-Same as above if you receive a significant proc1, Fel Flame x2 + Agony.

So In this scenario you are losing out maximizing Pandemic and extending that significant proc as long as possible via the numbers I pooped out above. It might work out to be relatively close, but manual casting would be stiff competition and SB:SS would probably be best if you are snapshotting a 8+ stack of Wush in most scenarios.

There are probably some scenarios where it will math out to be better to FF, but in a real-time raiding situation you'll be hardpressed to find them I would think. Teaching people to use it to refresh their DoTs in more than one very unique case might lead to FF spam to reach full duration on a regular basis and that is not ideal.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Cruzan

[Draxyl 0]

Yes, situation #2 would have involved a proc. It looks like I didn't include that. Essentially, the utilization of FF revolves around procs - so it wouldn't be used for much else.

For situation #3, you wouldn't want to use SB:SS if you happen to have only 1 soul shard left - you would want to use that for Haunt. Plus if you are casting FF x2 + Agony in the 8-10 stacks of WFC window, you have plenty of time. Follow that up with Haunt and you're good to go. Fel Flame still causes snapshotting, and causes damage. Manual cast of UA and Corruption causes no damage, and uses the same amount of GCDs.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Draxyl

[zeffrell 0]

Hello all. Okay now I've read a lot of guides and im starting to get confused on how to refresh dots on procs the correct way, now what I normally do when i get a int/trinket proc is that I refresh my dots with ss:sb and again when the proc is one second from expiring no matter if im clipping the dot early or waiting for the 50% mark from Pandemic . Now is this the correct way? or should I refresh with fel flame and just hard cast Agony during procs? Thanks in advance...

ok so is ther a simple answer was wondering the same just started using power auras to show me when they proc and been using ss and sb to reapply them as the procs happen. Should we be just normal cast them except in the begging when they all proc at once?