Ji-kun question. getting crushed

[skullytor 4]

Hey i have a 509 prot pally - haste built. on ji-kun tonight i was getting wrecked by talon rake on the second stack, as well as taking a ton of damage from melee hits the entire fight. whats odd is ive tanked every other boss in tot without any issue, yet i was dying on the second hit almost every time. my final hits were 470k and i think maybe its bc i missed my timing on SOTR by a few seconds? the 470k didnt kill me but a 128k melee hit immediately following the talon rake finished me off. i was watching the dbm timers to get my shield out a second ahead of time but every time this happened ji-kun would go into his quills phase then randomly hit me a few seconds after that, and perhaps my shield had dropped off.

i dunno, heres the log. - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/mm0h8nig2ot4dfyb/details/7/?s=15710&e=16267

really confused about this, i do know that talon rake isnt affected by armor at all, but our bear tank took 4 stacks of talon rake and survived....could i really have just mistimed my sotr every time by a few seconds?

- on a side note - i was popping divine protection under the impression this would help soak up 20% of the physical damage from the hit. that being said, after i checked my glpyhs i realized i had removed the glyph for a different encounter, dumbass moment. if you catch this on the logs, thats why lol.

[Tinan 1]

I see from your Logs that your SotR did fall off before the Talon Rake hit. That would have probably saved you there.

[04:10:32.045] Skullytor's Shield of the Righteous fades from Skullytor

[04:10:32.255] Skullytor afflicted by Talon Rake (2) from Ji-Kun

[04:10:32.255] Ji-Kun Talon Rake Skullytor 516554

I have noticed on that fight that the timer in DMB is just the CD timer for Talon Rake and that it can be delayed by Quills or other abilities like you mentioned. To protect against this I always rotate a cooldown (like you mentioned but with the glyph ^.^). I also build up 5 HP before the timer is up then use my SotR like you say and then use a Holy Power generator and then have enough Holy Power for another SotR in case I notice the Talon Rake is delayed like you mentioned.

Either way I am pretty sure that either the SotR or the cooldown would have saved you there!

Edited April 28, 2013 by Tinan

[skullytor 4]

Awesome. i spent like 3 hours on the logs looking for the exact lineup. how did you see the itemized breakdown like that inside the logs? (world of logs newb). great idea about building 5 hp, i do that on mag during the breath phases which are longer than 3 seconds.

[Farsigt 1]

Hey,

joining a little late here but tbh you answered your own question already.

What to think about during that encounter:

1. ALWAYS keep the SotR-buff up when talon rake strikes. Check the Talon rake-timer on BigWIgs or DBM and be ready (I use SotR when he casts talon rake, u need to be quick though).

2. Glyph Divine protection..

3. Pick the talent "hand of Purity" to ease the healing on you when you get many stacks of "Infected Talons".

4. Pick the talent "Speed of light" to stay in melee range during downdraft (or else the other tank or a melee will get owned by talon strike).

5. If you need to take more than 2 talon rake stacks, use a CD together with SotR.

Also, I see that you only have 17.3% up time on the SotR buff. On my last kill of Ji-kun HC I had 57,7% up time on the SotR buff.

http://www.worldoflo.../?s=3563&e=4025

Sure, I have more haste than you but you should be able to have the buff a lot more than 17%.

While we're at it, I see that you have a lot of items that doesn't have haste. Even if an item have higher item level it doesn't mean it's better for you. E.g I have 522 bracers with dodge/parry in the bag, but I use 502 with expertise/haste.

P.S I'm not the best at constructive criticism. Not trying to flame, just help

EDIT:

To see your death log, just click the WoL link that you gave us, then press the tab "Deaths", after that you click "(more)" and a window will pop up adn you'll see this.

Make sure you press the three icons to the right so you see all buff/debuffs etc.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Farsigt

[Lothrandir 12]

Hello.

I've tanked Jikun a few times (in lower ilvl than what you state), and I've never really paid much attention to the Talon Rake, I must admit. It was just never an issue (much more important to us to have Sotr up at quills tbh) - afair I was around 700k+ health in tanking mode, so the healer mission was to simply keep tanks topped, and that worked fine for us.

So the solution might be simple: Are you to squishy? I tried checking but you were in ret - sometimes you dont need to look that far to know the solution. Some abilities can be harder to predict than others, and in that case you just need to have the stamina for it.

I pursued the haste build as a tank as well (I am now MS healer tho, so my knowledge probably deterioates fast), but I read articles arguing the case for ilvl as the main driver for upgrading, not haste over avoidance stats. With 5.2 avoidance became a better stat for mitigation as well, as the Grand Crusader procs got buffed. The point of these posts were to go for haste gear on same ilvl, but to always value an ilvl upgrade (this might also help if there's indeed a 'squishy' angle at play here).

Hope this helps.

Happy tanking

[Pieux 0]

All of this advice is great. I just wanted to mention that using Holy Avenger along with Hand of Purity is very beneficial. As someone pointed out your SotR had dropped because of its short duration. Popping Holy Avenger will allow you to generate enough HP consistently through those points of large physical damage until you are ready for the tank swap. If you drop the buff at a all you are doing something wrong. CS -> SotR -> CS -> SotR. Your healers probably won't have to heal you at all.

http://www.wowdb.com/spells/105809

[Tarazet 144]

All of this advice is great. I just wanted to mention that using Holy Avenger along with Hand of Purity is very beneficial. As someone pointed out your SotR had dropped because of its short duration. Popping Holy Avenger will allow you to generate enough HP consistently through those points of large physical damage until you are ready for the tank swap. If you drop the buff at a all you are doing something wrong. CS -> SotR -> CS -> SotR. Your healers probably won't have to heal you at all.

http://www.wowdb.com/spells/105809

The problem with that is when she does Talon Rake right after Downdraft, which she does every single time. It's not always possible to stay in melee range and continuously generate Holy Power.

[Farsigt 1]

The problem with that is when she does Talon Rake right after Downdraft, which she does every single time. It's not always possible to stay in melee range and continuously generate Holy Power.

Yes it is possible to stay in melee 100% during downdraft. Just pop Speed of Light right when downdraft starts and you don't get pushed back at all.

[skullytor 4]

great advice from all angles. i really appreciate it. holy avenger is a strat that i started using on ji-kun immediately, have no idea why i wasnt using it as i typically use it as an o-shit button. with my dodge/parry gear: i have been replacing it with ilvl upgrades as i progress, which is why there is still some present. thankyou for the idiot proof guide on finding deaths on the logs, clicking the buttons on the side is what i was missing.