need a lil'help

[Azmodai 0]

Hi guys,

Have a slight issue and im abit stuck so wanted to ask you fantabulous folks for some advice.

Last night my guild and raid team attempted Heroic Ji-Kun, and was abit of a wipe fest at 53% best try but was learning on everyones part.

Today I spoke to my raid leader who not much in a critical way but more of a pull your finger out way that my dps was lacking.

I didnt think I did too bad especially with the short fight spans, and getting the feel for the fight. but I was wondering if anyone could have a look through the logs and see if there is something I may be missing? As I dont want to let my team down.

My role for fight was to go down on pull and get a feather for damage buff for feed yound but to then stay on main platform and provide constant dps for rest of the fight.

Due to composition we do not have spell haste.

Im Destruction. Not sure if anything else you need to know.

Armory - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/ghostlands/Azmodai/advanced

Logs - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-53dn4b59hdxibca3/

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help :)

[Omaric 246]

Shit man I want your job on this boss, haha.

Well for starters, as you know, your job is pretty simple and you get to do absurd amounts of damage. My first tip to you, if you aren't already, is to place a demonic circle above the first nest you get your feather from. Once you have your feather you can teleport back up without having to waste a flight charge.

Otherwise, I assume whenever you run out of feather charges you hop down and grab another. That said, you should have very high uptime on the nutriment buff. That, along with your Wush procs, should be pushing your average Chaos Bolt hits to ridiculous numbers. I'm seeing 600,000'ish there for you, but I think you can probably bump that up a bit. Make sure though that you are running down to grab another feather when your charges run out, that's pretty key for your role.

You aren't falling off during the knockback are you? That would be a huge loss. Personally I like to either make good use of burning rush and demonic gateway to bypass that mechanic rather than going "oh shit! I need to waste a feather!" As some people do.

Honestly, you should probably be pushing close to 200k DPS with such a small amount of responsibility and 100% damage buff. I'm seeing an overall 20% uptime on primal nutriment over the course of that night. You can do better. :)

[gahhda 95]

I'm seeing an overall 20% uptime on primal nutriment over the course of that night. You can do better.

20% is insanely low for someone staying on platform. Who is in the team that handles all the nests? We have our shadow priest and ele shaman two man all the nests without big adds except for the 2nd, and I think the 8th (same nest the second time) to give those people a few feathers. That means we can send down 2 extra dps to the 1st and 3rd nests, and get every nutriment buff until nest 7, when we go back down (if we haven't already started burning the boss).

There is a very distinct point where you have to just let the nests go and burn the boss, and its a judgement call on your raid to decide when. We have amazing dps, so we end up nuking boss after the 6th nest goes down, as after that 2 nests spawn at a time, making it very difficult to manage.

[Azmodai 0]

Thanks for the quick response,

our raid leaders have specified that 2 groups handle the nests and do all of them, the composition of 1 tank, 1 healer and 2 dps in each and myself and one healer to stay on the main platform at all times aside from the pull when i do the first nest. they have also said for me not to go to any other nest unless a dps dies and then im their replacement.

only one of those pulls did i fall off the edge as i forgot to place a portal down at the start due to a mispul that carried on.

when i fly up and get the nutrient buff soon as i get it i do spam chaos bolts, due to rain of fire and immolate i have 4 charges at that point which is more than i ever like to have as normally i get shut at 2 would the long cast times between all 4 be affecting at all or am i just simply not casting properly/the right spells?

also i was wondering everyone else in the raid group has a set bonus of either 2 or 4 other than myself. i do have 522 epic gear across the board aside from 1 ring but no tier gear. would that affect my dps compared to someone else?

[Cruzan 71]

Hey,

So there is definitely something wrong here . Before you hop down to that first nest make sure to drop and immolate and RoF on jikun.

Towards the beginning of most of your attempts I'm only seeing one cast of Fire and Brimstone. When you're on that nest you should be doing a full AoE rotation finished by Havoc + Shadowburning. Jump down, Drop a RoF, FnB:Immolate, FnB:Conflagx2, FnB:Incin. If you prepped with immolate and RoF on ji'kun before you dropped down you should have enough embers to pull this off easily. As they are about to die make sure to use Havoc+Shadowburn (mouseover havoc macro works well for this kind of stuff) to get some uber damage and free embers.

Once you're back up top you need to be casting 100% of the time. I see periods in some attempts where you are doing Zero damage. I'm guessing this is when you're flying, but you should at the very least have immolate and RoF rolling on the boss. You can cast while you're flying as well.

The playstyle doesn't change when you have the Nutriment buff other than making sure you have full embers going in to it. Unload your CBs and keep immolate and RoF going to get max ember generation. Nothing else special to do as long as you can properly execute a single-target rotation.

You might want to look in to using Grim of Sacrifice for this fight. There were some attempts where your observer had under 80% up-time with some being close to 65% (Only looking at fights over 4 minutes). It will make maximizing your damage during nutriment periods better. I'm guessing as you guys progress through that fight you will be dropping back down to that nest again once it comes back around so you'll have more opportunities to get the buff.

Best of luck!

Edit: Don't forget to pre-pot! You can probably use your second one on first or second nutriment buff while you guys progress to help your numbers a little bit, but probably save it for Hero once you guys get closer to execute in the future.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Cruzan

[Omaric 246]

our raid leaders have specified that 2 groups handle the nests and do all of them, the composition of 1 tank, 1 healer and 2 dps in each and myself and one healer to stay on the main platform at all times aside from the pull when i do the first nest. they have also said for me not to go to any other nest unless a dps dies and then im their replacement.

You have to tell your raid group that you need to hop down to more nests throughout the fight. A 2nd, or at the very most a 3rd nest, will allow you to last the entire fight. Remember, once you have feather charges you don't have to worry about saving up embers for Primal Nutriment. You are basically going to have the buff for the rest of the fight, so play how you normally would.

Like Cruzan said, definitely use Grimoire of Sacrifice on this fight. Your pet doesn't benefit from Primal Nutriment, so make sure that *you* are able to make the most of it.

[Azmodai 0]

Thankyou all for your input,

we are trying again tonight and ill try and be more on top of the RoF's and immolates and see how i get on. also with the pre-potting i wasnt for most of the attempts as we werent going straight burn on the boss but ill be doing as normal as every little helps. raid leader also agrees to use 2nd on the 2nd nutrient buff not for heroism.

with regards to the nests ive just spoken to my raid leader about it for tonight if theres a chance i can go down more but hes told me no as the 2 groups that are asigned are priority for this and ill loose too much dps :( dont know what to do here.

either way will let you know how i get on.

cheers guys

[Cruzan 71]

Not sure how getting a chance to do another round of AoE + refreshing your wings to get more nutriment buffs would be a DPS loss. Good luck though!

[Omaric 246]

Thankyou all for your input,

we are trying again tonight and ill try and be more on top of the RoF's and immolates and see how i get on. also with the pre-potting i wasnt for most of the attempts as we werent going straight burn on the boss but ill be doing as normal as every little helps. raid leader also agrees to use 2nd on the 2nd nutrient buff not for heroism.

with regards to the nests ive just spoken to my raid leader about it for tonight if theres a chance i can go down more but hes told me no as the 2 groups that are asigned are priority for this and ill loose too much dps dont know what to do here.

either way will let you know how i get on.

cheers guys

DPS loss? Don't even listen to your leader. Don't even tell him what you are going to do, which is this:

The next time you need a feather, you are going to go above the next nest that lights up, drop a teleporter, hop down to the nest to grab a feather, and then teleport back up. Nobody needs to know anything and your Primal Nutriment uptime increases dramatically.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Omaric

[gahhda 95]

DPS loss? Don't even listen to your leader. Don't even tell him what you are going to do, which is this:

The next time you need a feather, you are going to go above the next nest that lights up, drop a teleporter, hop down to the nest to grab a feather, and then teleport back up. Nobody needs to know anything and your Primal Nutriment uptime increases dramatically.

Bad idea if the raid decided otherwise, we don't want to get him in trouble. You should only need a tank to go down on specific nests, the order to which I don't recall. The only reason to send a tank is if the big add spawns, as it will destroy any dps down there alone. That should leave 2 dps and 1 healer on MOST nests. That means theres 1 free feather just sitting down there if you do it right with you comp, which one of the dps staying on the platform should be taking to get the +100% damage buff on the boss.

[Zagam 1,982]

While I can sympathize with your desire to get the buff full time, your raid leader probably designated two people to do such. Not sure of your actual strat, but we use a strat where our Rogue and Mage get the buff full time while me and the Moonkin take care of nests 3, 5, and 6 while a different group takes care of 1, 2, 4, and 7. If you go down and take a feather from someone who should have it, you will likely cause a wipe. As a Warlock, you should be utilized for the nests while your teammates, as unfair as it may seem, should be fully utilized for the DPS gain on Ji'kun. Remember, the overall goal while raiding is to kill bosses, not be top DPS.

[Omaric 246]

Yeah I take that back, I was assuming there were extra feathers not being used and that the raid leader thought that hopping down to pick one up would be a burden.

BUT, in Zagam's example, you've got groups that are taking 2 back to back nests. You don't need to pick up a feather from nests 5 and 6 as you'll be set from nest 3. There should always be a time where there will be an extra feather after the first couple spawns and occasionally throughout the rest of the fight.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Omaric

[gahhda 95]

Sadly, not every guild can send down an ele shaman/shadow priest that KICK ASS like us and leave two feathers on every single nest wide open.

[Azmodai 0]

Thankyou all for your posts and suggestions,

We tried again but didnt go so well although we almost have it, next reset im definitly sure we'll get it as we still needed to complete normal this reset.

we are running with a tank, 2 dps and a healer apart from Nest 6 where the healer stays up and i go down to get my second feather nuke that nest, back up let the teams do a couple more and then all nuke which seems to be working. just need to work on positioning of the green pools and people getting killed by caw but good progress.

Zagam i agree with ethos of the team work to down the boss not just the dps (seeing as no one can touch the mage in our group anyway), i came for a little help as im very new to raiding only started in march and wanted to know what i was missing so i wasnt letting the group down.

and none of you have disappointed thankyou all.

[obleak 10]

I see you have now downed this boss heroic. Congrats! I did want to tell you how jealous i am that you get to stay on platform every time :( My group has me and our elemental shaman go 1 plat, 3 plat, 2nd and 3rd upper plat - repeat.. we usually only do next round of lowers then we skip upper because we're pushing around 30% or less and we lust and burn boss.

They need to work it so you go down and get your feather more.. I DID not think to drop portal and teleport back up....

WHAT A MORON I AM -- that will be a huge dps gain for me on our heroic ji-kuns .. not that we needed it -- As Cruzan said drop immolate and ROF on boss before you jump down then aoe your booty off :P make good use of Havor and shadow burn although our elemental shaman aoe burst is so crazy i find i only get 1 burn before it's dead.. not to mention on hard my shadowburn is hitting.

Good luck!

[Azmodai 0]

Hey,

well we got her down and no less than the 1st pull of the night which was good although was disappointing for myself as aside coming straight from a 17 hour shift hungry and tired into raid i also had internets troubles so big gaps between casting at times which really wasnt the best so felt i let the guys down abit.

i took what i could and tried to apply it best i could from these posts although i am stuggling with getting the portal to work from the lower platform, ive placed it as close as i can literally off the edge and i still cant pick the port up from the nest. do you have to jump off to get in range?

if anyone fancys watching the kill our healers recorded it and put it onto video

well progress has been made none the less so HC Iron Quon is the next challenge.

[obleak 10]

you'll find heroic iron quon is more of a healing issue and raid awareness... The first phase is tremendous for the healers and gets easier until last phase.

Some people lust at the beginning and play the waiting game in the middle of the 3 phase and pop lust for last, but i don't think we was able because we was getting close to enrage.

I wonder if it's possible to three heal it? We always two healed except for a few attempts where our ele sham tried, but his heals are poor.

[Zagam 1,982]

2 Heal vs 3 Heal is a decision made based on your DPS and nothing else. Most encounters can be 2 healed with the exception of very high raid damage fights (Council, Megaera, etc.)

If your DPS is high enough, you'll kill things before healers go OOM.

If your DPS is low enough, you'll need a 3rd healer to not go OOM before a boss's HP goes to zero.

A lot of fights will seem like they have high amounts of damage during progression because people are making mistakes. Don't use a crutch like an extra healer to ease learning of mechanics. Learn them, deal with them, and enjoy killing bosses faster.

[Omaric 246]

i took what i could and tried to apply it best i could from these posts although i am stuggling with getting the portal to work from the lower platform, ive placed it as close as i can literally off the edge and i still cant pick the port up from the nest. do you have to jump off to get in range?

Yeah that's a my bad. I realized after I did another Ji-Kun kill that there are actually only 2 nests high enough that the teleport will actually work on. So look for those 2 nests and figure out if one of them are yours.

[obleak 10]

You should like most of our group. We don't use a "crutch" healer, but sometimes the more casual raider is forced too. :) Yeah i just tried to portal and only a few work. I'm just happy i don't have to jump to second lower. Annoying how distanced that fight is and can be a bit annoying to get to if you have KJC movement debuff (regardless if you turn burning rush on.)

Good luck!