PvP Guides on Icy Veins - What do you want us to cover?

[Marco 51]

We started working on the PvP guides and I would like to take your wishes and suggestions into consideration. I will not give you an ETA on the PvP guides, but now that you know we are actually making them, this is your opportunity to give us more input.

If you are a proficient and competent PvPer confident enough to explain your class/spec in and out, contact me or Damien; At best with a link to your main character in the Armory and a short summary of your PvP relevant activities thus far. You don't have to bring excellent writing skills as your knowledge is far more valuable, but they are a strong plus nonetheless.

Although we already have contributors for Windwalker Monks, Discipline Priests and Rogues, we would like to get in touch with as many people as possible to receive more input. So don't be shy if your class is already covered.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Marco

[Wizzsneak 0]

While we do intend to do PvP guides during Mists of Pandaria, we are going to first focus on what we have been specializing up to this point: class guides and encounter guides. So we hope to start publishing PvP content between the release of Mists of Pandaria and the first patch of the expansion.

In this thread, we are going to analyze the demand and I will update the following list with what we will cover, taking into account replies you will make:

• PvP versions of our PvE guides
• Battleground guides: overview, objectives, common strategies
• Arenas: overview, map details (with tips and tricks for positioning/running around), common strategies
• PvP Achievements
• Advice on interactions between classes

So what is the status on updating the guides to help PvP'rs? Also, Ask Mr. Robot?? Is there someone else we can reach out to on that tool as it would be very helpful if the PvP side of it was worked on. Currently PvP'rs are told to get a Gem that changes the entire Gem/Reforge/Chant scenario...that we can't even get. Tyrannical Primal Gem

[Marco 51]

So what is the status on updating the guides to help PvP'rs? Also, Ask Mr. Robot?? Is there someone else we can reach out to on that tool as it would be very helpful if the PvP side of it was worked on. Currently PvP'rs are told to get a Gem that changes the entire Gem/Reforge/Chant scenario...that we can't even get. Tyrannical Primal Gem

Look one post above yours and you have the latest status update on PvP guides (I still will not give an ETA). :)

I don't know whether Ask Mr. Robot has planned anything PvP-wise, but I could try to reach out to them and ask if there are any plans.

The Tyrannical Primal Diamond is indeed the best meta gem for PvP and you will be able to buy it after having earned 25,000 conquest points in this season for 1000 conquest points.

[rjparker1 7]

While we do intend to do PvP guides during Mists of Pandaria, we are going to first focus on what we have been specializing up to this point: class guides and encounter guides. So we hope to start publishing PvP content between the release of Mists of Pandaria and the first patch of the expansion.

I think it has been noted, but I would like to see guides cover specific encounters, maybe not EVERY one but certainly the key points such as Shaman vs Melee, Caster vs Melee.

Or maybe we can request certain guides like Ele Shaman vs Melee or Ele Shaman vs Lock! (that one is premium importance to me, because I just can't seem to win vs lock...)

[Marco 51]

I think it has been noted, but I would like to see guides cover specific encounters, maybe not EVERY one but certainly the key points such as Shaman vs Melee, Caster vs Melee.

Or maybe we can request certain guides like Ele Shaman vs Melee or Ele Shaman vs Lock! (that one is premium importance to me, because I just can't seem to win vs lock...)

As it stands right now, we are focusing on more general PvP guides. That does not mean we have not considered very specific gameplay guides, we just do not have unlimited staff and would like to get the general guides out before thinking about guides that are that specific.

[Porth 3]

I'd like to see "Arena" or "RBG" strategy guides, not necessarily something per class. I think it would be an easier starting point... Sure, people want to know what abilities each spec has, what they are used for and how, like how was this destro lock able to heal from nil to full in a couple GCD's and how do I prevent that? But I find those types of things are easier to search for on the web, versus WTF is a Junglecleave comp and what approach to killing me should I be expecting? Something that tells me: Spec A + Spec B are generally put together due to their cc abilities so they will spend the entire match trying to setup ability x, into ability y into ability z. Trinketing ability y will break the chain and provide an opening to reset the match or burst someone down.

In other words go through the strengths and weaknesses of the popular comps.

Arena / RBG class and spec roles: in an arena with <insert l33tspeakz team name here>, Spec X's job is to cc and disrupt heals, while Spec Y is building resources for a big finisher... In an AB RBG the usual role of a tanking spec (best performed by ABC) is to defend a flag while help arrives. The best spec to achieve this is <insert uber unkillable pestering tank spec here> and it accomplishes it through the combination of abilities A B C.

Map strategies / tricks are nice: If you're a monk / lock in the Nagrand arena, drop your teleport behind a pillar and kite your DPS away from it, set them up so they are slowed and teleport back behind the pillar. You will avoid damage and/or get a chance to cast that extra chaos bolt u need... Or, in the Ruins of Lordaeron arena, you can push your toon into a column in the prep zone wall that prevents LOS from the outside world, forcing the opposing team to run into the room and perhaps fall into the trap that you have setup for them.

Macros and addons (these could just be collected from a major forum thread)

I understand it's a lot of info to put together, but I think there's a need for it. Seems a lot of PvP websites are slowly dying down and I find this data to be hard to collect.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Porth

[Marco 51]

I'd like to see "Arena" or "RBG" strategy guides, not necessarily something per class. I think it would be an easier starting point... Sure, people want to know what abilities each spec has, what they are used for and how, like how was this destro lock able to heal from nil to full in a couple GCD's and how do I prevent that? But I find those types of things are easier to search for on the web, versus WTF is a Junglecleave comp and what approach to killing me should I be expecting? Something that tells me: Spec A + Spec B are generally put together due to their cc abilities so they will spend the entire match trying to setup ability x, into ability y into ability z. Trinketing ability y will break the chain and provide an opening to reset the match or burst someone down.

In other words go through the strengths and weaknesses of the popular comps.

Arena / RBG class and spec roles: in an arena with <insert l33tspeakz team name here>, Spec X's job is to cc and disrupt heals, while Spec Y is building resources for a big finisher... In an AB RBG the usual role of a tanking spec (best performed by ABC) is to defend a flag while help arrives. The best spec to achieve this is <insert uber unkillable pestering tank spec here> and it accomplishes it through the combination of abilities A B C.

Map strategies / tricks are nice: If you're a monk / lock in the Nagrand arena, drop your teleport behind a pillar and kite your DPS away from it, set them up so they are slowed and teleport back behind the pillar. You will avoid damage and/or get a chance to cast that extra chaos bolt u need... Or, in the Ruins of Lordaeron arena, you can push your toon into a column in the prep zone wall that prevents LOS from the outside world, forcing the opposing team to run into the room and perhaps fall into the trap that you have setup for them.

Macros and addons (these could just be collected from a major forum thread)

I understand it's a lot of info to put together, but I think there's a need for it. Seems a lot of PvP websites are slowly dying down and I find this data to be hard to collect.

We are currently working on general BG guides for the more inexperienced players, but we also aim at providing in-depth strategies for RBGs. These include general tactics, discussion about classes and their special roles and of course map tricks. Now, we will probably do the same for the Arenas. Showing different viable comps for Arena is not that high on our priority list, simply because they can change every expansion. That said, once the more general guides are laid out, when we start on the more specific ones, Arena comps will be - apart from the class guides - probably the first thing to work on.

A general Interface and Macro guide is almost finished and we will include class-specific macros and interface adjustments in the class guides.

Thanks for the suggestions, by the way. :)

[DanielLewis 0]

are we any closer to finding out when you are going to bring out these PVP guides?

[Marco 51]

are we any closer to finding out when you are going to bring out these PVP guides?

 

Yes, yes we are. We (almost) have general mechanics, races, interface and macros and 5 battlegrounds (without advanced RBG tactics) covered. We will most likely publish these guides soon™ (That is, less than a month). We hope to find PvP contributors, especially for classes, and generally attract more PvP players to come to Icy Veins with these guides.

[Ariel 0]

PvP Guides on Icy Veins - What do you want us to cover? Basically for me its as much detail as you put into the leveling guides, for instance where each point should go as and when you get it, what moves you should concentrate on using for each individual spec.

I agree with this.   Plus, specifically helpful class macros is something I'd like to see, as well as recommended add-ons.  I know keybinding is personal, but if any seasoned PvP'er has helpful advice for pvp keybinding, that's also something with which I struggle. 

I'm good at my class (disc priest), but am returning after being gone awhile.  Sometimes the mechanics trip me up - stuff a guide writer may have completely forgotten with their expertise.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Ariel

[Ariel 0]

I think one of the reasons I've found PvP to be so difficult is that there are no satisfactory guides for beginners. And there are certainly no guides for the most common experience of world PvP -- which will be all the more prevalent in MoP. While there is plenty of advice regarding how to fight this class or this spec, and lots of discussions about arena teams, there is little advice available about what to do when you're getting ganked while questing. For me, the primary concern is how to survive while questing and leveling my toons. This has been less of a problem in Cata, but MoP promises to bring world PvP back once more. So, what do I do when I find myself rooted, or stunned, or otherwise ambushed? What ought to be my first response when I have no idea who or what it is that has attacked me? Due to its fundamental principle of blind surprise, world PvP, in some ways, seems to be inherently different from the BGs or arenas.

Most classes have control abilities and 'get out of control' abilities.   You just have to know what they are.   A stun is a stun, no matter who does it - after that, it's quick thinking.     Lots of people prefer open world PVP to BGs just for that reason...you never know what you are going to get.    If someone jumps you and chain stuns you..if you can live through that, they have probably blown all their CDs and now you can get down to business. 

 

The huge difference between the two, IMO, is the heightened, constant situational awareness you have to have at all times.   No relaxing fishing or just a calm day of picking flowers.  Keeping your eyes open for prospective attacks (or people TO attack) means constant vigilance.    Even a class that can invis and attack you was visible at some point.   Did you see them?    Does the hair on the back of your neck stand up when you gallop through a spot that has a lot of good high ground, and you are not on it?    Stuff like that.

 

If you die in pvp, you die.  Don't take it personally even if the person is camping your corpse.   The person camping is now really vulnerable to outside attack..even if they are keeping you from reviving, because they are just sitting there waiting for you.   Enlist aid, maybe.   I don't really do much world pvp anymore, but even now if someone tells me some Alliance guy is camping their corpse, I'll come help.  It's the point! 

[Storm 426]

What the WoW community has been lacking (at least as far as I have found lately) is what Arena Junkies used to have. 2v2 and 3v3 Arena guides written by high rating teams that detailed what comps they're playing and why the classes work well together, and exactly how they handled other comps they commonly came up against.

 

The same thing could also be done for RBG's. It may not target specific comps for a whole team, but it could be filled with advice like which classes make the best flag carriers and why, which combination of 3 healers is the most versatile for your team. and what order to target the other teams healers to gain the edge.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Storm

[Marco 51]

Damien's wedding delayed the reviewing process by a fair amount of time, so we will not be able to release the PvP guides in September, but at the beginning of October, most likely in the week starting with the 7th October.

[Archimage 98]

TL:DR: The PvP section is going to be HUGE since there are so many sections to cover.

 

Here is what I would like to learn from the PvP Guides:

 

Some basic stuff that is also in the PvE Class Guides:

• Pros and Cons of each spec (Like being unable to heal, movement)
• Crowd Control & Useful Spells, should also indicate which CCs share Diminishing Return (DR), list of interrupts and silences.
• Stat Priority (When is the PvP stats worth more than secondary stats, etc)
• Which professions are optimal if you are PvP focused (imo Alchemy and Engineering is boss )
• Gear Progression (Which gear piece should you get next)
• Useful macros
• Recommended addons like Gladuis and HealerMustDie

Some other stuff:

 

Since there is no rotation in PvP, but you still cast some spells in a sequence, might as well call them combos (and then some "Commmmmbooo Breaker!" stuff)

• Burst Combos (Do damage fast, don't give the healer a chance to heal)
• Defensive Combos (Their DPS is targeting you, what do you do to stay alive)
• Healing spells to throw when enemies burst you to 20% health and you need to heal quick. (no Lay on Hands paladins, since you can't use it in arena)
• How to put pressure on healers. Like DoTing everyone and throwing in a CC every now and then

Then there should also be an Arena section:

Have a section for each setup (2v2,3v3,5v5)

• What comps could I play, what are their strength and weaknesses, focus (eg. Double DPS comps cannot heal so well as Healer-DPS comps)
• "What do I do when"  when you are up against the above comps (like the PvE encounter guides)

Battleground section:

• What is your job?
• Extra tips like Zerging in with Shroud of Concealment, now imagine the look on their faces , throwing your enemy off the cliff with knockbacks (Thunderstorm).

 

[Marco 51]

 

TL:DR: The PvP section is going to be HUGE since there are so many sections to cover.

 

Here is what I would like to learn from the PvP Guides:

 

Some basic stuff that is also in the PvE Class Guides:

• Pros and Cons of each spec (Like being unable to heal, movement)
• Crowd Control & Useful Spells, should also indicate which CCs share Diminishing Return (DR), list of interrupts and silences.
• Stat Priority (When is the PvP stats worth more than secondary stats, etc)
• Which professions are optimal if you are PvP focused (imo Alchemy and Engineering is boss )
• Gear Progression (Which gear piece should you get next)
• Useful macros
• Recommended addons like Gladuis and HealerMustDie

Some other stuff:

 

Since there is no rotation in PvP, but you still cast some spells in a sequence, might as well call them combos (and then some "Commmmmbooo Breaker!" stuff)

• Burst Combos (Do damage fast, don't give the healer a chance to heal)
• Defensive Combos (Their DPS is targeting you, what do you do to stay alive)
• Healing spells to throw when enemies burst you to 20% health and you need to heal quick. (no Lay on Hands paladins, since you can't use it in arena)
• How to put pressure on healers. Like DoTing everyone and throwing in a CC every now and then

Then there should also be an Arena section:

Have a section for each setup (2v2,3v3,5v5)

• What comps could I play, what are their strength and weaknesses, focus (eg. Double DPS comps cannot heal so well as Healer-DPS comps)
• "What do I do when"  when you are up against the above comps (like the PvE encounter guides)

Battleground section:

• What is your job?
• Extra tips like Zerging in with Shroud of Concealment, now imagine the look on their faces , throwing your enemy off the cliff with knockbacks (Thunderstorm).

 

Thanks for your suggestions Archimage. You are a bit late to the party, though. We have a few PvP guides in a forum section: https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/forum/47-pvp-guides/. We intended to expand on them, but because of underwhelming interest in them we ultimately decided that it was not worth any more effort.

[Varkaaf 2]

Greetings,

As i see it (and some ppl above):

 

-class guides (including skills and tallents)

-battlegrounds guides/rated battlegrounds

-arena guides(2v2, 3v3, 5v5)

-guides how to play vs different clasess (especially vs. healers)

-equipment

-achievements(optional)

 

Now that's A LOT of work but since you r doing everything so good we ll wait :)

best wishes

[Archimage 98]

 

Greetings,

As i see it (and some ppl above):

 

-class guides (including skills and tallents)

-battlegrounds guides/rated battlegrounds

-arena guides(2v2, 3v3, 5v5)

-guides how to play vs different clasess (especially vs. healers)

-equipment

-achievements(optional)

 

Now that's A LOT of work but since you r doing everything so good we ll wait 

best wishes

 

 

I've tried starting some Class Guides/Discussions for PvP, but I can only write a guide once I've gotten the Class to level 90, do some research from other guides to check if there isn't any tips and then try it out myself if there isn't any beginner advice I can give. Currently I'm working on my Windwalker Monk and Unholy Death Knight.

 

As Marco said in the previous post, most of the Battleground tips are already in the PvP Guides section. https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/forum/47-pvp-guides/

 

As for Arena Guides and Class-vs-Class, The number of class+spec combinations are so many that it would take a great amount of effort and time to write a section on this. The game is also constantly changing with each patch, that theses guides quickly become obsolete. 

 

Equipment (Gear) is already explained in https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/2019-pvp-beginner-guide-54/

 

I think the best thing for now is that people start posting in the PvP Discussion forum to at least show that there is enough interest in PvP to create guides/topics from. People generally come to Icy Veins for PvE since it offers imo the best PvE advice/help and don't expect to see any PvP guides since its not really "advertised".

[Marco 51]

 

I think the best thing for now is that people start posting in the PvP Discussion forum to at least show that there is enough interest in PvP to create guides/topics from. People generally come to Icy Veins for PvE since it offers imo the best PvE advice/help and don't expect to see any PvP guides since its not really "advertised".

 

The problem is not the lack of promotion on the site. Most of our traffic comes from search engines, so the placement on the site does not matter as much as the SEO/page ranking. As I elaborated here, we believe that the amount of people interested in PvP does not justify writing guides (especially those that change with every patch). Our resources are limited, and I am mainly speaking about Damien and Vlad of course, so writing about other topics like Hearthstone, which we recently expanded to, is more profitable in terms of traffic than writing about PvP, because of higher demand. 

 

So do not expect to get more PvP guides from Icy Veins directly, even if the PvP Discussion forum becomes more active. We still welcome and value, of course, the creation of user guides. Especially because they create a foundation for solid discussion, which will hopefully accelerate the PvP forums a bit.

[frakbt 0]

I would love to know at what point PvE gear begins to outweigh PvP gear for PvP.  I know that at the same level, PvP gear is always preferable.  However, PvE gear now only scales down to 532, and increases every week.  I have a lot of 522 PvP gear.  At some point, the ever-increasing stats of my 567 PvE gear must outweigh the PvP Power in the PvP gear, but I can find no resource online yet that specifies the break-even point.

[miltystu 0]

Looking for more info on Blood DK PVP. It would be nice to have a place to get up to date stat priority, Rotations, strategy, discussion, etc.