Frost or Fire?

[Maxon 3]

Hello fellow mages,

Before 5.2, I, like many others, played arcane, and when 5.2 came out it wasn't clear which one of fire or frost was gonna be better. So I bet on frost and stuck with it ever since.

I'm doing fine, even got rated among frost mages a couple of times on the world of logs.

Frost and fire started pretty close dps-wise, according to raidbots. But, as we get deeper into 5.2, fire is pulling further and further away: ~top 3, while frost is in the middle of the pack.

I tried to reforge for fire and run some sessions on a target dummy (single target, in VoH@Orgr, inside hunter stables). I'm rusty on fire, and know from experience it takes me 1-2 weeks to get comfortable with a spec, but I don't think I missed a lot. Still, in reforged for fire gear, I did +10% dps in frost, compared to fire.

Now, the ratings take top-100 parses, so obviously those will be guys with the better gear. So my question: is there an ilvl threshold, after which fire becomes better, or fire is always better and I just need to polish my fire rotation.

I know it depends on the boss, and Fire suits better for multi-target fights due to mult-dotting, but according to the ratings, Fire beats Frost on every boss, including single target fights like Megaera, Jin'rokh, Durumu, Iron Qon.

Here is my toon for reference (have pet leveling head atm, but I got set piece ilvl522 there)

http://us.battle.net...Fokkes/advanced

Thanks,

Maxon

[Tarazet 144]

The Fire rotation and priority system is insanely complicated, and it takes a lot of practice and trial and error to get the most out of it. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it's probably the only thing keeping you from matching your Frost DPS. Giving us more detail about your routine will help us out. Also, how long are you spending getting numbers on the dummy? Fire has a lot of RNG so one 3-minute window might be very different from the next.

[solacespecs 14]

Looks like you need more crit. I think what I've read (I'm not a fire mage) is 35% self buffed before fire really begins outshining frost.

[Shnoblin 3]

I've had the same problem matching/exceeding frost's dps with fire. I've heard fire becomes "better" than frost @ ilvl 500+. But after researching more, this seems to be more true at or around 522 ivl. I've tried over and over (forget the simulations, I just regem/reforge) but even when the stars align, frost averages out to be better for me (I'm at 511 ivl).

Fire is far more random than frost, giving you moments of excellent dps and other times so-so dps. Admittedly, I like the predictability of frost. As Tarazet pointed out, there IS a way to get better dps as fire and that's just practice. Not being used to fire, it can be difficult to nail the rotations because you simply can't predict it. My dps drops significantly every time I try fire in raid situations. This week I had a mage pst me that "Fire>Frost at 500+" and he did indeed beat me (by a lot) on the damage meters. (He averaged 164K/sec to give you an idea.) I can't get close to that, but I'm just not used to nailing proper Combustions which apparently you just have to get good at.

Anyways, it's not just you. I'm determined to get good at fire but I think I'll wait until wait until ivl 522+. I've tried over and over but simply cannot beat frost dps at ivl 511. As solacespecs pointed out, around 35% is the magic number. If I remember correctly, when I reworked my gear, I only had just above 30% crit which simply wasn't cutting it.

[RunicLovePotion 9]

I've had the same problem matching/exceeding frost's dps with fire. I've heard fire becomes "better" than frost @ ilvl 500+. But after researching more, this seems to be more true at or around 522 ivl. I've tried over and over (forget the simulations, I just regem/reforge) but even when the stars align, frost averages out to be better for me (I'm at 511 ivl).

Fire is far more random than frost, giving you moments of excellent dps and other times so-so dps. Admittedly, I like the predictability of frost. As Tarazet pointed out, there IS a way to get better dps as fire and that's just practice. Not being used to fire, it can be difficult to nail the rotations because you simply can't predict it. My dps drops significantly every time I try fire in raid situations. This week I had a mage pst me that "Fire>Frost at 500+" and he did indeed beat me (by a lot) on the damage meters. (He averaged 164K/sec to give you an idea.) I can't get close to that, but I'm just not used to nailing proper Combustions which apparently you just have to get good at.

Anyways, it's not just you. I'm determined to get good at fire but I think I'll wait until wait until ivl 522+. I've tried over and over but simply cannot beat frost dps at ivl 511. As solacespecs pointed out, around 35% is the magic number. If I remember correctly, when I reworked my gear, I only had just above 30% crit which simply wasn't cutting it.

That's that.

I ain't gonna lie, as a fire mage, fire seems to be quite difficult if you are unlucky or have a bad computer or internet (because the low FPS and high lag are going to prevent you to properly transform your Heating Ups in Pyroblast!)

But I still think Fire is quite more charming than Frost

[Maxon 3]

Thanks for responses, guys.

Think, that's the answer: I just need more practice. When reforged for fire, I'm sitting at 35.8% crit.

Like some of you said, it all revolves around the best use of Combustion, which requires a lot of practice. It's the same pain I went through when I switched from Arcane to Frost. Hopefully, it won't take me too long to learn.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Maxon