New to warlock, which Spec should I go for?

[Lappenforce 0]

So before I have the LMG, it doesn't matter at all and socketing mastery only won't slow me down(heh:P)? What about the racials btw, I heard as affliction troll is more than worth it. Would fit for going demo later maybe (Racial + Imp), not sure though I don't have numbers.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Lappenforce

[obleak 10]

Is affliction going to hold anything back? Because I really like affliction, as you said in one of your guides you feel like a 'Warlock' .

Thanks for the massive amount of infos so far guys, I appreciate it!

Of course not. Affliction will not hold you back one bit, but on some fights you will definetly see a huge dps on certain fights because of cleave/multitarget damage that affliction spec can't touch.. unlike destro or demo.

As stated play the spec you feel most comfortable in, but consider learning them all so you're a great utility to your raid and just so you can walk around all smug because you're a badass

Enjoy raiding!

Edited May 26, 2013 by obleak

[gervaise 0]

Remember that for Affliction Agony and Corruption are instants and a Glyph of Unstable Affliction will reduce its cast time close to the global cool down. Throw in a macro for Soul Burn + Soul Swap to cast all three and Haste becomes less significant that Mastery. In reality the need to ensure that you have a 100% Hit chance (you can get away with less when levelling but for raids it really should be 100%) will limit your options until you hit higher ilvls. Carry a stack of Tome of Clear Mind as well so you can change talents etc. as needed.

[Livendula 0]

Of course not. Affliction will not hold you back one bit, but on some fights you will definetly see a huge dps on certain fights because of cleave/multitarget damage that affliction spec can't touch.. unlike destro or demo.

Show me where these fights are and I'll show you where you're wrong.

[obleak 10]

Show me where these fights are and I'll show you where you're wrong.

10man heroic horridon, Lei Shen (where we are parsing below half if playing affliction), Heroic Durumu, Heroic Primordius (raid bots showing destro dps upwards of 321k while affliction is 257k),

It's not about dps though sometimes fights require HUGE burst which is just more suitable to demo, but i'm not saying affliction is bad.

Learning all specs and playing them all well makes you a great warlock.

[Lappenforce 0]

Here's my armory link (name's actually "Kemzun", doesn't seem to update) http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/character/blackrock/Truedot/simple (ignore the blue ring etc, I'm still gearing up)

Do you have any tips or something I could do better? I don't have logs right now because all I did was some lowraids and lfr. Basically I'm starting with applying all dots manually, MG'ing one or two secs until trinkets + weapon enchant proc. I then use dark soul, troll racial, doomguard and SB:SS the boss into haunt and MG spamming. I then reapply haunt 2-3 times to keep 100% uptime while burting, depends on procs. I don't have problems at all with holding my dots up to 100%, shoving in some Haunts here and there possibly when I just snapshotted procs with affdots. I guess on Lei shen I had something like 88k dps when he died. That fight is not the ideal fight because of the boss disappearing etc.

I did sim my character, showing me approx 96.xxxx dps on singletarget patchwerk so not sure if I did good on Lei shen and the several other fights so far.

Right now I'm heading towards the 9778 haste cap, didn't check if I have that raidbuffed yet, lol.

Anways I'd be glad if someone could take a quick view, appreciated!

[Cruzan 71]

Here's Zagam's opener from back in 5.1. Still very applicable, especially with your current gear.

My opener is prepot, CoE, DS + SB:SS, Haunt, MG for one duration, UA, Corr, Agony, Haunt, MG x 3, SB:SS, Haunt, MG x 4. From there, you're monitoring your procs, but until that second SB:SS, all procs are live (Relic of Yu'lon, Light of the Cosmos, Lightweave, potion, Bloodlust, Jade Spirit).

That should get you headed in the right direction. I've noticed that with UVLS the opener will change depending on when exactly Perfect Aim procs, but you won't need to worry about that yet.

The only word I could understand on your armory profile was "Troll" so I'm glad to see that word translates well . It's cool to see stuff in German though, assuming thats German.

The 9778 soft cap is for getting an extra tick out of agony IF it were to fall off. Your number one priority as an aff lock is to make sure that agony NEVER drops off. Rebuilding 10 stacks of Agony will hurt your DPS. With that goal in mind shooting for that soft cap, especially at your gear level is crippling you and unnecessary. You only have 1 RPPM trinket and no legendary meta gem. Reforge yourself to keep mastery and haste rating roughly equal for now. If you're determined to aim for a haste soft cap, then the 6637 cap for the extra tick on Unstable Affliction is your best bet since that is the dot that will more often than not be falling off of your target due to its short duration and cast time.

You're ilvl is just barely enough to comfortably reach 6637 haste without dumping too much mastery so give that a whirl. http://www.askmrrobo...ca-02b5b5b47211 Go there and click optimize to see the reforge/gemming that reflects my recommendations.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Cruzan

[gahhda 95]

Heavy mastery is fine. Don't worry about haste soft caps as you gear up. As you get better about not letting your dots fall off they become less important.

What exactly are you looking for on your DS timer?

dOZ7eaGArkA9Iu6LIu1UuvY2ePYmjuz2K6MeQY3uI2Pk2lSBkTFPIFsrnmkyCe0TjXqvvQblv1WLIdkLWPKsQJrsNtQYcfXsLs1Ivvz5s6HuOEkYYuv45kMifYuLyYQY0fUiHQ60eDzuxNkBuvr)MQ2SsA7IKPPe(QuI(Ss9DcL)kkpwunAkY4Ls5WQ0Tuv11iW5LknkPK8mc51IuyOIcOlkianGu)AXxl)Qhifqpqpua1M511Hd85IE9sNQWp6jCHHElx2Bbw)VqaOUMxxhoWNPZGa1Lg6juG6YEcwiqiw)VqaOH1RF7L2auI5sXS4joX)ZcOkVLEBPBddAx9UgqwNsPk3BUo4Ocs(azebs7Vpuav9AgfqkoDirbbceG42AU2h)qccq5OGJkkG6AEDD4aN)QlnakQY9MROak62WGM4gUbKZYPyBa66cpi3Wzk3i3e)A3zzKaYnCM0MIRdJeqCk2gGm271pVy2o9)U63vEMo9Bf1WADRb5goZzLbsannSwFUkmoQQIekqii3WztdR1NRcJeq5Uj8kzMKpguiv4hcqMy52uGJidG0(7dfqUHZY13zqcOQxZOasXPdjkiqaYnCwA9wg)annCokGgPDRzCubP40HefCeHeeiaLRVZGcOrA3AgulBr7IZSXPhbi3Wz5ELF3ajiav5T0BlDByqYCVf0toPPZMhYumsaL796Nxml(b6(EYq6TxDwuL7nxhuqasm5lmHJidGAZ866Wbo)fjaKZgv5EZvuannSwFUkmoQQIekqicqsBkUomsazDkLQCV56GJki5dKruN(gXtu9iW5dua1M511HdC(lsaiNnQY9MROaAAyT(CvyCuvfjuGqeGIQCV5kkGIUnmOjUHBa5SCk2gGUUWdYnCMYnYnXV2DwgjGCdNjTP46W4hiofBdqg796NxmBN(Fx97kptN(TIAyTU1GCdN5SYajGMgwRpxfghvvrcfieKB4SPH16ZvHrcOC3eELmtYhdkKk8dbitSCBkWrKbqA)9Hci3Wz567mibu1RzuaP40Hefeia5golTElJFGMgohfqJ0U1moQGuC6qIcoIqcceGY13zqb0iTBndQLTODXz240JaKB4SCVYVBGeeGQ8w6TLUnmizU3c6(EYq6TxDwuL7nxhuqaQR511HdC(RU0aiXKVWeoImaY6ukv5EZ1bhvqsBkUomsajFGm6wtJo9jVt3PVXg1P)hGY9E9ZlMfjiqakfoQlmyabaa

Above is what I use for tracking DS. Very basic.

The better you become at keeping dots up the better haste becomes..the same is true with mastery. People seem to have some screwed up understanding of how pandemic works. Pandemic in NO WAY effects haste breakpoints.

Remember that for Affliction Agony and Corruption are instants and a Glyph of Unstable Affliction will reduce its cast time close to the global cool down. Throw in a macro for Soul Burn + Soul Swap to cast all three and Haste becomes less significant that Mastery. In reality the need to ensure that you have a 100% Hit chance (you can get away with less when levelling but for raids it really should be 100%) will limit your options until you hit higher ilvls. Carry a stack of Tome of Clear Mind as well so you can change talents etc. as needed.

UA's cast time is already the GCD. The glyph does nothing in pve but over-gcd cap you. SB:SS has nothing to do with the value of stats?

[gahhda 95]

Show me where these fights are and I'll show you where you're wrong.

Demonology/Destro truck affliction on every fight this tier until heroic BiS.

10man heroic horridon, Lei Shen (where we are parsing below half if playing affliction), Heroic Durumu, Heroic Primordius (raid bots showing destro dps upwards of 321k while affliction is 257k),

It's not about dps though sometimes fights require HUGE burst which is just more suitable to demo, but i'm not saying affliction is bad.

Learning all specs and playing them all well makes you a great warlock.

Destro parses on primordius don't really count. While it is the best spec on that fight, like half of the dps is RoF ticking on adds. When comparing damage done to THE BOSS in WoL, destro completely dominates. The reasoning is that going mannoroths allows RoF to tick on almost 1/4th the room, hitting at most times 7+ adds. This leads to massively excessive embers, which allows destro locks to pretty much just sit on the boss doing immolate > conflag > chaos bolt the ENTIRE fight. There was a point in last weeks kill where I was literally spamming shadowburn for 15 seconds and never went out of embers once.

Also, I'd like to note that you can't really use any affliction parses from prior to this week anymore because of the massive number of parses using festerswap before the nerf.

Here's Zagam's opener from back in 5.1. Still very applicable, especially with your current gear.

That should get you headed in the right direction. I've noticed that with UVLS the opener will change depending on when exactly Perfect Aim procs, but you won't need to worry about that yet.

The only word I could understand on your armory profile was "Troll" so I'm glad to see that word translates well . It's cool to see stuff in German though, assuming thats German.

The 9778 soft cap is for getting an extra tick out of agony IF it were to fall off. Your number one priority as an aff lock is to make sure that agony NEVER drops off. Rebuilding 10 stacks of Agony will hurt your DPS. With that goal in mind shooting for that soft cap, especially at your gear level is crippling you and unnecessary. You only have 1 RPPM trinket and no legendary meta gem. Reforge yourself to keep mastery and haste rating roughly equal for now. If you're determined to aim for a haste soft cap, then the 6637 cap for the extra tick on Unstable Affliction is your best bet since that is the dot that will more often than not be falling off of your target due to its short duration and cast time.

You're ilvl is just barely enough to comfortably reach 6637 haste without dumping too much mastery so give that a whirl. http://www.askmrrobo...ca-02b5b5b47211 Go there and click optimize to see the reforge/gemming that reflects my recommendations.

Again...people here seem to have a direct misunderstanding of how breakpoints work.

PANDEMIC HAS ZERO EFFECT ON BREAKPOINTS.

Whether your dots fall off or get refreshed early has nothing to do with the number of times they tick unless the dot was over 50% duration to begin with. Wasting pandemic is the only way to lose ticks.

[Cruzan 71]

I'm not sure what you're point is here gahddo. Is there something wrong with the advice I'm giving? Your statements seem to be coming out of left field here. At least in what you've been quoting me on I haven't mentioned any relation between Pandemic and haste breakpoints. I'm not taking it personally or anything, but I'd love it if you could clear some things up.

The better you become at keeping dots up the better haste becomes..the same is true with mastery. People seem to have some screwed up understanding of how pandemic works. Pandemic in NO WAY effects haste breakpoints.

Maybe you're just looking for a vehicle to rant on people who are saying this, but I haven't said anything along the lines of Pandemic effecting breakpoints.

My understanding is that under perfect play with 100% dot up-time, haste thresholds/breakpoints don't exist for affliction locks. Are we robots who can do this day in and day out? No. So we gear people to 6637 if its attainable, then even out haste and mastery from there. Sure, the number of times a dot will tick throughout a fight increases, but no ticks will be lost by ignoring breakpoints entirely. I've seen blogs write about it, I've seen Zagam say it and it makes perfect sense in my mind. Certain things can be said for being slightly over a breakpoint versus being slightly under to manipulate a dot's duration, but this might be more info than people want to know as they learn to play their locks. I thought that this was the consensus during 5.1. Correct me if I'm wrong on this please or if something has changed with the recent patches. Building in a safety net for less skilled warlocks by gearing them to a certain breakpoint on a spell like Unstable Affliction seems like sound advice. I still gear to 6637 personally because I'm not pro and it happens passively as ilvl increases anyway.

Whether your dots fall off or get refreshed early has nothing to do with the number of times they tick unless the dot was over 50% duration to begin with. Wasting pandemic is the only way to lose ticks.

My understanding of Pandemic: Allows for increased dot empowerment time while also giving a buffer zone for refreshing dots, making clipping dots unnecessary. This leads to higher dot uptimes since locks as a dot class don;t let our dots drop off intentionally compared to other dot classes. Refreshing your dot before its 50% duration pandemic threshold without any decent procs has never been advised by me or anyone that I've seen on these forums so I'm not sure how that is creeping in here.

Haste is a great stat. That being said stacking haste cost at the direct cost of a dot's power and should always be mentioned. Going too far to an extreme has some losses and people need to be aware of it. Proof comes from helping out Lappenforce here who had under 3k mastery while trying to attack the 9778 agony haste threshold. The weights are very close i believe so the playstyle choice can be left up to the player.

tl;dr Whatchu talkin' bout Willis? or.... Get all up out mah grill.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Cruzan

[Zagam 1,982]

What Gaddha says is true, but it's really one of those min/max 1% type deals. What he's trying to explain is that Pandemic doesn't affect your breakpoints. I'll try to lay this out really plainly...

Your DoTs have a base interval tick time. This interval tick time is reduced by Haste. Once Haste brings the interval time down far enough, you gain an additional tick of that DoT. This is referred to as a Haste threshold. As long as you fully use Pandemic (UA cast below 7 seconds left, Corr below 8 seconds left, Agony below 12 seconds left), Pandemic will not affect this tick speed because even if you are between ticks when you reapply, the old "clipping" style still exists where it will carry over that extra tick. Surely some of you have seen Agony's timer up to 39 seconds when the theoretical max would be 36? That's because an additional tick is carried over via Pandemic and "clipping" to make sure you're not losing anything. Because of this effect, you don't lose any ticks.

The original point I made about thresholds not 'existing' and that you should just play based on your procs, not your DoT timers, is because you can't control when your procs happen. If I get an UVoLS proc when I'm not going to fully benefit from Pandemic, I'm using SB:SS anyways. If Corruption and UA have less than 4 seconds but Agony has 30 seconds left and Breath of the Hydra proc is about to end, I'm going to refresh Agony anyways. When you do this, you will affect your DoT timers, but ever so slightly. While it is a VERY SMALL loss to neglect them, I feel it makes the spec less worrisome by removing an effect to worry about completely.

Broken Record statement: Reforging and Gemming will not make your DPS awesome. Executing the mechanics of your class and using them to your best ability with each fight in mind will optimize your DPS to a far greater effect.

[Lappenforce 0]

Wow so many replies, the warlock community is great here, thanks!

Nice explanations and I guess I understood how it works. Still I'm still missing some guidelines, because I'd feel weird just gemming and reforging without a real guideline. Cruzan stated above that with my gear I should just go for the 6637 threshold with the rest being stuffed into mastery. And then as soon as I have my 2nd RPPM (wushoolays at best) I'm going full haste to get the buffed RPPM proc chance? I propably won't be getting the legendary meta in the near future, so not sure about that. It's only affliction reforging/gemming that's burning my head because with demo I know I'd go for 8100 haste-> mastery as soon as I have the Lei Shen trinket.

Still, thanks for the effort you bring into this thread and the time you take to help a new warlock. I really appreciate it!

[Omaric 246]

Broken Record statement: Reforging and Gemming will not make your DPS awesome. Executing the mechanics of your class and using them to your best ability with each fight in mind will optimize your DPS to a far greater effect.

I understand that, but what gems should I use? <3

[Zagam 1,982]

I will straight up hunt you down, Omaric. You know better!!

[Ilitar 0]

For a new warlock I would suggest Destruction. It currently has the highest dps out of the 3 specs and in my opinion it is far easier to play than Demonology or Affliction. Destruction is doing well in MoP and it has some amazing abilities such as my favorite passive in the game, chaotic energy, which gives 625% faster mana regen. They are also great at AoE dps because of Fire and Brimstone + Rain of Fire. You get to see some massive Chaos Bolt crits too (:

[Zagam 1,982]

Destruction is very easy to pick up and play. I'll argue it's not the highest DPS, but it has the lowest ceiling giving players an easier time to reach their theoretical maximum. Destruction does play well in many of the fights in Throne of Thunder, so I can say Destruction is a good choice.

[gahhda 95]

Destruction is very easy to pick up and play. I'll argue it's not the highest DPS, but it has the lowest ceiling giving players an easier time to reach their theoretical maximum. Destruction does play well in many of the fights in Throne of Thunder, so I can say Destruction is a good choice.

And I'll argue the only reason it falters single target is the meta gem and practically every fight this tier caters directly to destruction :3. Either way, next tier will be nothing but ST patchwerk bullshit and arcane mages and affli locks will dominates. Destro had its moment in the sun, and now its time for them to shove it back into a box as they always do :,<

[Jenaye 9]

Destruction is very easy to pick up and play. I'll argue it's not the highest DPS, but it has the lowest ceiling giving players an easier time to reach their theoretical maximum. Destruction does play well in many of the fights in Throne of Thunder, so I can say Destruction is a good choice.

My guild is currently up in arms about this. I dropped destro completely in favor of affliction/demo, and out-performed our other lock, who only plays destro. Now she's under a lot of pressure, which isn't really fair, as I spend a lot of time tinkering with gear, and rotations, and here reading and learning how to maximize the little gear I do have. It is what it is though; those who spend the time to learn, tweak and improve WILL do better.

[Zagam 1,982]

You should do better every single week you play. You should actually do better every single night you play. Playing perfectly is such a lofty goal that it shouldn't be pursued directly, but maximizing your performance and minimizing mistakes should be your top goal as a DPS in a raid group. If the other Warlock is unable to adjust and play all three specializations, shame on her. Pure DPS have the responsibility to show up ready to deal out the most pain possible out of the three specs available.

[Lappenforce 0]

When it comes to trinkets, I currently have lfr hydra trinket and the darkmoon one. Is the shado pan (1750points) worth it? I'd trade it for the darkmoon one. Looks great to me, but not sure if the intellect procc is better. I main affliction

[Omaric 246]

When it comes to trinkets, I currently have lfr hydra trinket and the darkmoon one. Is the shado pan (1750points) worth it? I'd trade it for the darkmoon one. Looks great to me, but not sure if the intellect procc is better. I main affliction

Are you raiding normals/heroics? If so, I'd save your valor to upgrade gear you get from there. If not, then I'd personally replace the relic with the Shado-Pan trinket, yes.

[Lappenforce 0]

Why would I upgrade non-BiS nHC items? I'm currently equipping through normals and lfr

[Omaric 246]

Why would I upgrade non-BiS nHC items? I'm currently equipping through normals and lfr

Because there is a valor cap and you aren't guaranteed BiS items?

Easier if you link your armory.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Omaric

[Lappenforce 0]

http://eu.battle.net.../Truedot/simple I might still be on destru not sure since I'm getting better results right now. Affliction will catch up as soon as I get better gear I guess. Just playing it because I love it ;P

EDIT: I'll try to post some logs after lfr today.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Lappenforce

[Omaric 246]

http://eu.battle.net.../Truedot/simple I might still be on destru not sure since I'm getting better results right now. Affliction will catch up as soon as I get better gear I guess. Just playing it because I love it ;P

EDIT: I'll try to post some logs after lfr today.

If anyone else wants to look, here is his armory in English:

http://eu.battle.net...ruedot/advanced

I don't see any normal kills yet, and it appears you already purchased the trinket, haha. That's a fine choice though. Not much you can do at this point other than to continue running the raids and hope the RNG gods love you.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Omaric