Struggling with my DPS recently

[keakiepievoye 0]

For the last several weeks, despite multiple gear upgrades including a weapon, I have noticed that my DPS has not only not gotten any better but it seems to be actively slipping lower.

I've played a hunter since BC and have raided since WOTLK. I've always been a solid upper-middle of the pack person (except for in Cataclysm when I raided 10m on an alt) in 25m groups. I have never been the top hunter in my guild's raiding group, but I could at least keep up moderately well up until early TOT. Currently, though, I'm lagging WAY behind our other two regular hunters.

I bounce between SV and BM, depending on the fight, and don't notice a huge difference in DPS in either spec (minus fights that include AOE). One of our other hunters plays SV most of the time and the other plays BM. I've talked to them both, and they don't sound like they're doing anything differently than I am, but their numbers are consistently better. We've talked a bit about cool down rotation and shot priorities, and can't find any big differences in what I'm doing vs. what they're doing.

My hit and exp caps are fine. My reforges and talents are in line with what's recommended by Icy Veins and Noxxic (as well as the other hunters). I have my T15 2-set bonus. My shot priority seems fine. I even downloaded Hunter Spell Flash last week to see if it might help or to see if there's anywhere I could manage better, and my numbers didn't change much, if at all. I'm fairly well geared. I really don't know what else to do at this point.

I'm not talking about a difference of 5-10k DPS between me and the others - it's more like 30-50k DPS difference. I'm doing SOMETHING wrong. I just don't know what.

Here are some WOL from last week (this week's are a little iffy as I'm out of town and using my laptop instead of my normal PC):

My DPS for all attempts this past Monday, while I was still using my regular PC. It's all 25m Lei Shen attempts.

http://worldoflogs.c...lohu/details/0/

And here's last Thursday, same boss.

http://worldoflogs.c...6iy/details/10/

I went back and forth between BM and SV both nights.

Here's my details from the same raid week on bosses we did down (tried to pull ones that allow the most overall consistent up time on single target rotation):

Jin'Rokh: http://worldoflogs.c.../1/?s=424&e=621

Megaera: http://worldoflogs.c.../?s=7066&e=7495

Durumu (who I shouldn't have too many uptime issues with as a hunter): http://worldoflogs.c.../?s=1434&e=1859

Twins: http://worldoflogs.c...?s=9507&e=10081

Here's our raid's overall numbers for those nights including the other hunters in the group:

http://worldoflogs.c...sum/damageDone/

http://worldoflogs.c...?s=9507&e=10081

http://worldoflogs.c...sum/damageDone/

http://worldoflogs.c...sum/damageDone/

The last two nights (Lei Shen) most clearly show the huge discrepancy between my DPS and the other two hunters'.

Here's my armory link: http://us.battle.net...all/Voye/simple

And for anyone curious, here are links to the other two hunters I regularly raid with:

http://us.battle.net...all/Håte/simple (This is the one who runs SV primarily)

http://us.battle.net...Hudouken/simple (This one runs BM primarily)

Any insight? I'd really like to just know what the problem is so I can fix it.

[Vlad 411]

For the last several weeks, despite multiple gear upgrades including a weapon, I have noticed that my DPS has not only not gotten any better but it seems to be actively slipping lower.

I've played a hunter since BC and have raided since WOTLK. I've always been a solid upper-middle of the pack person (except for in Cataclysm when I raided 10m on an alt) in 25m groups. I have never been the top hunter in my guild's raiding group, but I could at least keep up moderately well up until early TOT. Currently, though, I'm lagging WAY behind our other two regular hunters.

I bounce between SV and BM, depending on the fight, and don't notice a huge difference in DPS in either spec (minus fights that include AOE). One of our other hunters plays SV most of the time and the other plays BM. I've talked to them both, and they don't sound like they're doing anything differently than I am, but their numbers are consistently better. We've talked a bit about cool down rotation and shot priorities, and can't find any big differences in what I'm doing vs. what they're doing.

My hit and exp caps are fine. My reforges and talents are in line with what's recommended by Icy Veins and Noxxic (as well as the other hunters). I have my T15 2-set bonus. My shot priority seems fine. I even downloaded Hunter Spell Flash last week to see if it might help or to see if there's anywhere I could manage better, and my numbers didn't change much, if at all. I'm fairly well geared. I really don't know what else to do at this point.

I'm not talking about a difference of 5-10k DPS between me and the others - it's more like 30-50k DPS difference. I'm doing SOMETHING wrong. I just don't know what.

Here are some WOL from last week (this week's are a little iffy as I'm out of town and using my laptop instead of my normal PC):

My DPS for all attempts this past Monday, while I was still using my regular PC. It's all 25m Lei Shen attempts.

http://worldoflogs.c...lohu/details/0/

And here's last Thursday, same boss.

http://worldoflogs.c...6iy/details/10/

I went back and forth between BM and SV both nights.

Here's my details from the same raid week on bosses we did down (tried to pull ones that allow the most overall consistent up time on single target rotation):

Jin'Rokh: http://worldoflogs.c.../1/?s=424&e=621

Megaera: http://worldoflogs.c.../?s=7066&e=7495

Durumu (who I shouldn't have too many uptime issues with as a hunter): http://worldoflogs.c.../?s=1434&e=1859

Twins: http://worldoflogs.c...?s=9507&e=10081

Here's our raid's overall numbers for those nights including the other hunters in the group:

http://worldoflogs.c...sum/damageDone/

http://worldoflogs.c...?s=9507&e=10081

http://worldoflogs.c...sum/damageDone/

http://worldoflogs.c...sum/damageDone/

The last two nights (Lei Shen) most clearly show the huge discrepancy between my DPS and the other two hunters'.

Here's my armory link: http://us.battle.net...all/Voye/simple

And for anyone curious, here are links to the other two hunters I regularly raid with:

http://us.battle.net...all/Håte/simple (This is the one who runs SV primarily)

http://us.battle.net...Hudouken/simple (This one runs BM primarily)

Any insight? I'd really like to just know what the problem is so I can fix it.

I am going to take a more in-depth look into your logs, but from my first glance, I notice that you have some pretty questionable Serpent Sting uptimes. For example, you had 18% on Megaera, which seems awfully low. Same goes for most other fights - you can't expect 100% but it's quite a bit lower than I'd expect.

The other thing I'd say for now is that you should use Blink Strikes as BM.

Finally, it would be nice to know if you've got latency issues.

P.S.: In addition to correct ability usage, I'm assuming that you are actually making sure you're never doing nothing, and that you're never focus capped.

I'll get back to you with more.

[keakiepievoye 0]

I am going to take a more in-depth look into your logs, but from my first glance, I notice that you have some pretty questionable Serpent Sting uptimes. For example, you had 18% on Megaera, which seems awfully low. Same goes for most other fights - you can't expect 100% but it's quite a bit lower than I'd expect.

The other thing I'd say for now is that you should use Blink Strikes as BM.

Finally, it would be nice to know if you've got latency issues.

P.S.: In addition to correct ability usage, I'm assuming that you are actually making sure you're never doing nothing, and that you're never focus capped.

I'll get back to you with more.

Thanks for the response!

During fights, I don't feel like SS is falling off and not being reapplied quite that often, but the WOL numbers do disagree and I had a couple of other people point out SS uptime in the thread I made on the Battle.net forums yesterday too. It's certainly something I'm going to have to pay better attention to.

I don't typically have latency issues. There was a week or so where it was spotty, but we've replaced our router since then and haven't been having any problems.

I do make the effort to always be doing something and try to use Arcane Shot (or multi-shot in AOE situations) to focus dump as much as possible (occasionally too much so, I think - I've had it happen once in awhile where I'll need to cast an extra cobra/steady shot before I have enough focus for exp shot/kill command respectively).

[Moirane 1]

Hey there,

I am in the process of looking over your gear & logs at the moment. I think your "lack" of DPS is probably due to a wide variety of small issues rather than there being any major mistakes. Hopefully my advice will put you back on the right track.

First off I believe you may need to make some minor changes to your rotation. The real sore thumb here is your SS uptime. I compared your Twin Consorts WoL against one I did which was of a similar fight time. The difference in damage done here was almost 3x more on mine... straight off you are talking of a 10k+ DPS loss. That is significant!

Personally I cast SS at the start of a boss encounter & then forget about it unless some boss mechanic causes it to drop off. My rotation is such that I will cast CS to pool focus and dump focus with 3 Arcane shots. I do have a tendency to let my focus reach ~80-100% before dumping when in fact I could squeeze some more AS which esseentially means doing 1 extra CS per cycle. In your 9 minute fight you got off 78 CS compared to my 83 over 7 minutes which equates to 106 over 9 mins. Now to return to the issue, I think you will find with a higher number of CS cast regularly as determined by grouping AS in 3s as opposed to spamming 5=6 to clear focus but losing SS in the process. Next time instead of spamming AS to literally dump remaining focus, only fire a few AS and squeeze in an extra CS. I do not believe there is much difference in DPS between dumping all focus firing as many AS as possible as opposed to doing a small group of AS and an extra CS. The difference you see here lies soley in SS uptime with some changes in AS & SS balancing out on the whole. I honestly think with some extra CS you will find a major difference as SS will not need re-applied.

Onto the next issue, I had a peak at Damage Graphs to see how it was spreading out and found a remarkable difference. Asssuming that your Twin Consorts fight went off as planned you had no noticable periods of burst DPS, instead remianing fairly consistent. I looked pver oterThat is strange because Hunters are known for their crazy Burst DPS. The difference in DPS here comes from the fact our Burst is extremely high whilst our sustained DPS tends to be a little lacking. Therefore the higher you Burst, the longer your DPS will take to taper off and you should see higher numbers. So what is the issue here? I believe it to be improper stacking of CDs wiith some other miinor factors.. Apologies if this is not the case, think of this as revision!

Regardless of any increased damage requiremensts in later stages of a fight my advice is simple.. always blow ALL CDs at the start of the fight - wherever possible with Heroism. (Having said that, Jin'rokh is immeadiate exception to this rule) So you should do something like Pre-Pot > Rapid Fire > Bestial Wrath > KC > Stampede > Dire Beast > Murder of Crows > KC then some CS/AS so you can fit in a third KC then immeadiatly use Readiness > Rapid Fire > Bestiial Wrath > KC etc not forgetting Glaive Toss on CD. By stacking your CDs you are getting a signifcant increase to your DPS hence our trademark Brurst DPS. The exact ordering of your CDs is not important as long as you stick to some simple rules. Always use KC on CD unless you are waiting briief pause for BW. It goes without saying but BW before KC. The other tricky one here is Focus Fire - the rule here is always use FF on CD unless BW is approaching CD... save it here as you will get higher pet DPS. Just wait for BW to pass and then you can use it. Then fall into your rotation keeping abiliies up at all times. Use your Rapid Fire & Readiness immeadiatly as they CD instead of stacking them the second time around. I tend to save my Stampede up for Readiness and will use my 2nd potion here. If the fight is saving Heroism, you should wait and stack all CDs with it. This should give you another mini-burst to DPS picking your figures up again by 5-10k after the dip in your sustained DPS phase. Note the use of Pe-Pots - just pop a potion mometnts before pull so that it can CD allowing use of a second. Note here that you shouldn't overlap abilities such as RF, Dire Beast & Murder of Crows. Always let them drop off before re-apply so you get maximum uptime.

Finally, we come to looking at the Hunter itself. Of course our DPS is highly gear-dependant but you will not find many answers here as DPS scales very evenly with gear.Having said that there is one significant variable & that is your trinkets! All of the trinkets have different Procs & can have substantial impact on your DPS. As it currently stands I would say your trinkets are reasonable but you could do better.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=94522 has what is really a secondary stat and so the value of the Proc is not as high even taking into account the increased value of Haste at higher ilvls.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=79328 is solid but does not quite meet up to standard of some of the 522 trinkets.

Now for some suggestions... a really good trinket that is easy to get is http://www.wowhead.com/item=94511 and I would reccomend it as direct replacememt of your Relic of Xuen. Altough lacking in static Agility boost the Proc provides a healthy boost to your Agility & DPS especially for those with high burst.

The other one I would highly recommend you get is http://www.wowhead.com/item=94512

Surely you can understaend the differing value of procs, rememeber in an ideal world they act to stack during CD phase which is why we like the Agility or Primary Stat procs.This will be another reason you are seeing other Hunter's topping DPS more-so & should be easily remidied.

Phew that's me spent. I hope this advice is of use to you... surely now you can see how the small things are all working together to have a signifcant difference in DPS.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Moirane

[Tehstool 10]

I am going to take a more in-depth look into your logs, but from my first glance, I notice that you have some pretty questionable Serpent Sting uptimes. For example, you had 18% on Megaera, which seems awfully low. Same goes for most other fights - you can't expect 100% but it's quite a bit lower than I'd expect.

SrS on megaera is bugged and isn't showing proper uptime.