Icy Veins vs Mr Robot - major differences

[Morticia 2]

Hi all,

Icy Veins recommends a Haste>Mastery>Crit build for single target while Mr. Robot recommends a Crit/Haste/Mastery build.

I can understand difference between two separate sites but aren't you two working together? One has Crit as a first priority, the other has Crit as the last.

Any advice would be appreciated. At the risk of getting torn apart, this is me

http://us.battle.net...Morticiá/simple

Thanks in advance.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Morticia

[Zoopercat 22]

Hey Morticia, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot. The Icy Veins weights you listed are best for people with a couple RPPM 'things.' For example, you have Wooshoolays, and the Legendary Meta Gem. Since Haste increases the proc rate of RPPM mechanics, Haste becomes more valuable with those things equipped. So you should be using the Haste > Mastery > Crit weights with your character.

We have a set of stat weights for this that match icy-veins. In the drop down menu, you'll see it listed as T15 RPPM. I've saved your character using those weights here.

Here's more info on Haste's affect on RPPM and how we handle it.

[Damien 1,514]

We try to give generic advice that will be great in most cases, but we can't have a list of "if X then gem like this", "if Y then gem like that", etc.

That's why we redirect to AMR, so you get more personalized advice. There are classes where weights vary a lot because the stats are very close to each other.

[Guest WeeWilly]

Thanks for the update Damien and (wow, ask mr robot is here too) Zoopercat. Thats a nice explaination that I was trying to figure out too. Appreciate you folks taking the time to answer.

Edited May 24, 2013 by WeeWilly

[Morticia 2]

Wow, excellent responses from everybody! Thank you very much! I'm off to the reforger now :)

[Morticia 2]

We try to give generic advice that will be great in most cases, but we can't have a list of "if X then gem like this", "if Y then gem like that", etc.

That's why we redirect to AMR, so you get more personalized advice. There are classes where weights vary a lot because the stats are very close to each other.

Actually Icy Veins had it right. According to Zoopercat from AMR, I should be using the Haste>Mastery>Crit setup. Thanks very much!

Edited May 25, 2013 by Morticia

[Morticia 2]

Hey Morticia, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot. The Icy Veins weights you listed are best for people with a couple RPPM 'things.' For example, you have Wooshoolays, and the Legendary Meta Gem. Since Haste increases the proc rate of RPPM mechanics, Haste becomes more valuable with those things equipped. So you should be using the Haste > Mastery > Crit weights with your character.

We have a set of stat weights for this that match icy-veins. In the drop down menu, you'll see it listed as T15 RPPM. I've saved your character using those weights here.

Here's more info on Haste's affect on RPPM and how we handle it.

Thank you, that was very helpful. I see I need to explore AMR more to find out all my options :)

[garthvedar 0]

Based on what iv'e seen here and on other posts, i would very much like to know, or even see on AMR the option to dual spec.

This is to say, assuming my MS is destro, and OS is demo, and i dont have the metagem or any good trinkets (or i do), what would i reforge for that would benefit both specs. because right now i have no clue which stats would work well for both specs with my condition (no meta, no RPPM trinkets).

cheers!

[gahhda 95]

Actually Icy Veins had it right. According to Zoopercat from AMR, I should be using the Haste>Mastery>Crit setup. Thanks very much!

Not entirely. Both sites derive from community feedback and simc, but currently more so simc than anything.

Mastery > Haste > Crit as destruction, period. Crit is the worst stat because of the amount of embers generated via RoF in ToT. Haste's value is artificially increased in simc because of the rppm mechanisms, when it reality its a heavily RNG statistic in game. The value can swing +/- 20% between pulls because of the complete RNG of trinkets. Its either REALLY good or REALLY horrible. Mastery is the most consistent of the 3, and provides the largest damage increase in ToT.

Haste to breakpoint > Mastery = Haste > Crit for affliction. Haste and mastery are almost dead even WITHOUT rppm counted in, which is why it can be ok to stack haste OR mastery for affliction, it really comes down to personal preference. Crit is the worst hands down, period. Good place to aim for in your gear is the 6637 haste breakpoint, or, if you want to go really haste heavy, 9778 on agony. The objective for affliction isn't so much to stack one over the other. It is more so balancing the two. When you go to a HIGH mastery build, haste becomes stronger, and vice versa. Corruption breakpoints aren't that important anymore as they nerfed its damage by a considerable amount in 5.2.

[garthvedar 0]

Not entirely. Both sites derive from community feedback and simc, but currently more so simc than anything.

Mastery > Haste > Crit as destruction, period. Crit is the worst stat because of the amount of embers generated via RoF in ToT. Haste's value is artificially increased in simc because of the rppm mechanisms, when it reality its a heavily RNG statistic in game. The value can swing +/- 20% between pulls because of the complete RNG of trinkets. Its either REALLY good or REALLY horrible. Mastery is the most consistent of the 3, and provides the largest damage increase in ToT.

Haste to breakpoint > Mastery = Haste > Crit for affliction. Haste and mastery are almost dead even WITHOUT rppm counted in, which is why it can be ok to stack haste OR mastery for affliction, it really comes down to personal preference. Crit is the worst hands down, period. Good place to aim for in your gear is the 6637 haste breakpoint, or, if you want to go really haste heavy, 9778 on agony. The objective for affliction isn't so much to stack one over the other. It is more so balancing the two. When you go to a HIGH mastery build, haste becomes stronger, and vice versa. Corruption breakpoints aren't that important anymore as they nerfed its damage by a considerable amount in 5.2.

Hey !

Still wondering about my question from above. Assuming I want to play both Destro and Demo with one set of gear/reforges, would i go for Mastery->Haste->Crit ?

Also, is the final choice trinket (502 version) considered RPPM ?

one last thing, for some reason even with these weights, AMR still gems mostly pure intellect for me, is that ok ?

thanks!

[garthvedar 0]

Can anyone comment on the above ? thanks.

[Zagam 1,982]

The reforging answers are found in the various stickied guides. In general, all Warlocks are Haste (to threshold) > Mastery > Haste > Crit.

Wushoolay's Final Choice is, indeed, an RPPM trinket. You can find its information in the stickied Trinket guide.

Gemming is a personal choice. Most prefer secondary stats.

[garthvedar 0]

The reforging answers are found in the various stickied guides. In general, all Warlocks are Haste (to threshold) > Mastery > Haste > Crit.

Wushoolay's Final Choice is, indeed, an RPPM trinket. You can find its information in the stickied Trinket guide.

Gemming is a personal choice. Most prefer secondary stats.

thanks ! much appreciated Zagam.

When you say haste to a threshold, you mean the 6652 threshold ? also, is that 6k unbuffed (so with raid buffs will be more) or i should reach 6652 with everything (so my amount will be lower)?

[Omaric 246]

thanks ! much appreciated Zagam.

When you say haste to a threshold, you mean the 6652 threshold ? also, is that 6k unbuffed (so with raid buffs will be more) or i should reach 6652 with everything (so my amount will be lower)?

The threshold will be relative to your current ilvl. Shoot for 8100 when you get to 520+.

[Twinkielock 15]

Which threshold? ROF 2 ticks?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/hyjal/Twinkielock/advanced

Should I go for even more haste than what I have?

[Zagam 1,982]

Pretty sure Rain of Fire doesn't add ticks, it just ticks faster making you put RoF up more. It's a special "DoT" in that it does damage over time but doesn't gain additional ticks. Likely would be too strong this way.

Broken Record Statement: Reforging between Haste and Mastery won't create a significant difference in your DPS.

[gahhda 95]

It isn't a dot. Plain and simple. It is a targeted ground effect. The only example of one gaining ticks is healing rain, and its a very special situation as it truly functions as a HoT does, where as RoF simply loses duration with increased haste.

RoF has a 20% chance per tick to proc embers. It does 8 ticks, regardless of haste, and the duration of the RoF is reduced by haste. You cannot ever gain new ticks, but it is quite funny watching it tick 8 times in a 3 second period with full haste procs/cds :D.

[gahhda 95]

Which threshold? ROF 2 ticks?

http://us.battle.net...ielock/advanced

Should I go for even more haste than what I have?

Immolate breakpoints aren't as important as demo breakpoints. So, its recommended that you hit the 8100 haste level for demo to gain doom/shadowflame ticks and then go all out mastery.

[garthvedar 0]

Excellent replies, thanks !

just 2 clarifications though:

1. do i need to reach 8100 self buffed or raid buffed (if i look in the armory and see i have 8100, thats what i need?

2. do i aim for exactly 8100 and then mastery? or is it ok to be between 8100-9000 and then mastery ?

thanks !

[Zagam 1,982]

Haste thresholds are ALWAYS calculated with 5% raid Haste included.

You aim for as close to 8100 as possible without going under. Targetting between 8100 and 9000 is a very wide margin. Your target goal should be 8100-8200.

[garthvedar 0]

so self buffed i should be 8100-5% (405) = 7695 ?

[Omaric 246]

so self buffed i should be 8100-5% (405) = 7695 ?

No. The rating is with the raid buff in mind. Without the raid buff you'd need even more.

Also, 5% haste equates to a lot more than 405 haste rating. Man I wish, haha.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Omaric

[garthvedar 0]

so the threshold isnt really 8100, its more (because you say i would need 8100 +the 5%haste i would get from the raid)?

thanks for the help!

[Omaric 246]

so the threshold isnt really 8100, its more (because you say i would need 8100 +the 5%haste i would get from the raid)?

thanks for the help!

Word. Most just assume everyone is rocking the haste buff because it's such a big buff. :)

Not everyone understands that certain 10 man setups aren't so lucky.

[Jenaye 9]

Our hunter rocks some haste giving pet. We love Slappy.