Beast Mastery Hunter 7.3

[Valks 2,375]

Just now, Guest Joshone said:

Does this guide account for the diminishing returns of Torment the Weak?  My assumption is that since multiple stacks of Torment the Weak doesn't increase damage, it just increases the application rate, this being the case, wouldn't it hit the 3 stack more frequently and cause a reduction in efficiency of stacking that trait?

I'll ask Azor, but I would assume so. He normally does take things like this isn't consideration. I'll let you know what he says.

[Guest Aasris]

On a similar note, does the BiS List for the relics take into account the Netherlight Crucible? Are the t2 and t3 traits from NC randomly generated for each relic? Clarifying, will the same relic from different difficulties have the same NC t2 and t3 traits or will they be different?

[Valks 2,375]

13 hours ago, Guest Aasris said:

On a similar note, does the BiS List for the relics take into account the Netherlight Crucible? Are the t2 and t3 traits from NC randomly generated for each relic? Clarifying, will the same relic from different difficulties have the same NC t2 and t3 traits or will they be different?

It's random, regardless of where the relic came from or which one it is. 

[Guest Eckel]

Hello... Seems like everyone is recommending the Zoo build now. Not sure if this is going to come out correctly, but at what crit strike % should zoo build be chosen over mastery (Dire frenzy) build?

I am still using mastery build. I have tried to swap things out for crit gems / enchants / etc and changed my talents before (right after 7.3 released) and I simmed less dps. I have jumped up in ilvl and I am now 933-935 ilvl (depending on gear equipped). crit varying from 30-34% mastery 94-107% haste around 16%. DPS varies (depending on RNG / trinket procs) from 900k-1.3 million. Since my median history average % is still only around 50-70 %, there is room for improvement.  I am  looking for ways to tweak more DPS and wondering if my base crit would be high enough to give Zoo build another try? I just don't want to waste all the money on crit gems / enchants / etc and end up having to change back.

warcraftlogs

I have all bm leggo's except Qa'pla, Eredun War Order. I sim on both Raidbots and Askmrrobot. For pure dps: I use Parcel's tongue and Roar of seven lions. For survivability, i will swap seven lions for prydaz. 

Talents with mastery enchants still show my existing build is best.

,
 

DPS Gear vs survival gear

Thank You,

Eckel

 

 

 

[Guest Devil's advocate]

I have a problem with Dire Frenzy while utilising high mastery and a decent crit chance: One with the Pack provides me with ample rests of Dire Frenzy - but as I see it every reset above 3 active stacks of Dire Frenzy is somewhat wasted as it 1. only provides focus while reducing the CD of Bestial Wrath and 2. doesn't provide a significant damage boost like Stomp does.

And even if I use Dire Frenzy while utilising ever reset its damage still is only a fraction of my overall damage.

[Guest Atreides]

9 hours ago, Guest Eckel said:

Hello... Seems like everyone is recommending the Zoo build now. Not sure if this is going to come out correctly, but at what crit strike % should zoo build be chosen over mastery (Dire frenzy) build?

I am still using mastery build. I have tried to swap things out for crit gems / enchants / etc and changed my talents before (right after 7.3 released) and I simmed less dps. I have jumped up in ilvl and I am now 933-935 ilvl (depending on gear equipped). crit varying from 30-34% mastery 94-107% haste around 16%. DPS varies (depending on RNG / trinket procs) from 900k-1.3 million. Since my median history average % is still only around 50-70 %, there is room for improvement.  I am  looking for ways to tweak more DPS and wondering if my base crit would be high enough to give Zoo build another try? I just don't want to waste all the money on crit gems / enchants / etc and end up having to change back.

warcraftlogs

I have all bm leggo's except Qa'pla, Eredun War Order. I sim on both Raidbots and Askmrrobot. For pure dps: I use Parcel's tongue and Roar of seven lions. For survivability, i will swap seven lions for prydaz. 

Talents with mastery enchants still show my existing build is best.

,
 

DPS Gear vs survival gear

Thank You,

Eckel

 

 

 

Your talent comparisons are not quite fair at all. You need to have crows not volley in all of them, and Way of the Cobra with stomp build as well. The only thing you should really be checking between is Killer Cobra or Aspect of the Beast.

My guess is just changing to Way of the Cobra and Crows In the second build will make your stomp build competitive. (almost certainly Killer Cobra is better for you.)

[Guest Eckel]

 

Thank you.... . I re-simmed with crows on all. There isn't much difference between between the top two builds  (.2%). This is also with a mastery build. I did multiple talent comparisons just to make sure all bases were covered between wotc / dire stable / cobras & AOTB. 

With my best DPS gear on (highest simmed gear), with one +200 mastery gem, mark of the trained soldier neck enchant and both rings +200 mastery enchant, my stats are listed below. 

ilvl: 935.94

My main question is still ... Is there a certain % of crit where it become better to swap from mastery build to the crit build? I changed gems out and enchants once already a while back and changed back because it was less simulated dps. Just thought if the anyone knew what % of crit it became better to run a crit build over mastery it might save me some gold and switching and finding out it wasn't great for my stats.

Thank You,

Eckel

[Valks 2,375]

On 10/10/2017 at 10:22 PM, Guest Eckel said:

My main question is still ... Is there a certain % of crit where it become better to swap from mastery build to the crit build? I changed gems out and enchants once already a while back and changed back because it was less simulated dps. Just thought if the anyone knew what % of crit it became better to run a crit build over mastery it might save me some gold and switching and finding out it wasn't great for my stats.

The general response for this question is basically - it depends. It sucks, but it's the truth. The swap doesn't just depend on your Crit and Mastery levels, but Haste and Versatility too. Stats are incredibly fluid in Legion and so those "certain % points" just don't really exist. It literally changes for everyone in almost every case.

Resimming over and over is essentially the way to do it, while building two sets of gear.

[Luthixx 138]

On 10/11/2017 at 7:22 AM, Guest Eckel said:

My main question is still ... Is there a certain % of crit where it become better to swap from mastery build to the crit build?

There are too many variables for it to be just simply percentage based, but a good rule of thumb for Zoo build is at LEAST 35% crit.

[Guest Concerned BM]

When considering if you should upgrade a relic, should the plus values listed on the guide be used to compare relic ilvl or the ilvl increase of the weapon if the relic was increased? 

[Valks 2,375]

21 hours ago, Guest Concerned BM said:

When considering if you should upgrade a relic, should the plus values listed on the guide be used to compare relic ilvl or the ilvl increase of the weapon if the relic was increased? 

They are weapon item levels, not relic item levels. It's how much the item level of the weapon itself increases after a relic is put in.

[Guest taiwannumberone]

heya, so i recently just returned to the game, new to this crucible thing. i'm trying to figure out using CrucibleWeight if this new higher ilvl relic with a useless trait is better than my current one (before taking into account the relic tree). i've imported the string here, so basically, i should just go with the relic with the bigger # at the top? i'm assuming that # takes into account the ilvl, trait, and the whole tree right?

thanks!

[Valks 2,375]

3 hours ago, Guest taiwannumberone said:

heya, so i recently just returned to the game, new to this crucible thing. i'm trying to figure out using CrucibleWeight if this new higher ilvl relic with a useless trait is better than my current one (before taking into account the relic tree). i've imported the string here, so basically, i should just go with the relic with the bigger # at the top? i'm assuming that # takes into account the ilvl, trait, and the whole tree right?

thanks!

Yeah, essentially. As long as you have the values for each trait in the addon, then just take whatever has the highest number. It adds up everything, item level, trait and all traits in the tree assuming you take the best route. Just make sure you're double checking the route as you do it, since it's better to be safe than sorry!

[Guest Stigma]

The Zoo build appears to be way better than the Dire Frenzy one - in all (gear) situations!

My BM hunter is sporting ilvl 942 with ~70% Mastery and ~40% Crit. And I am not a "new BM Hunters that have not acquired the T19 2-piece set bonus from the Nighthold yet". In order to replace 2 slots for the t19 bonus, I would need some high WF/TF mythic t19 items (915+) to compensate for the loss of stats - which I don't own. So in essence, I have outgeared the idea of 2 t19, but regardless, the zoo build is better anyway.

With or without 2 t19, the DF build just never seems to be on top. I just ran a sim on my little hunter who is pretty much only there for her professions. 915 ilvl and no t-bonus whatsoever. Result: Zoo is better!

tldr: What exactly is the justification for the existance of the Dire Frenzy build? 

 

[Valks 2,375]

16 hours ago, Guest Stigma said:

tldr: What exactly is the justification for the existance of the Dire Frenzy build? 

It's an odd build that, in general, does flourish in the early time of Hunters. In very strange setups of stats and gear, it can work incredibly well at high levels too. It's actually the highest parsing build on Sassz'ine, despite 8 of the top parses being Zoo. #1 and #3 are DF.

[Guest Tayy]

So now with the new BIS list for Antorus, will there be a change in the way we play our hunters? Zoo vs. DF or even something new? Any changes there?

[Valks 2,375]

On 11/26/2017 at 3:27 PM, Guest Tayy said:

So now with the new BIS list for Antorus, will there be a change in the way we play our hunters? Zoo vs. DF or even something new? Any changes there?

I believe Antorus is going to be the same thing as ToS was. A mass-pile of simming yourself and depending on those results, finding out which build works best for you. It's a really unideal situation, but it's the reality for BM.

[Guest DrakanFire]

Is it recommended to switch to KC from AotB when getting T21 2pc as seen on the front page sims? If so, How does this affect other values such as artifacts traits and crucible choices, stats priority ect?

[Valks 2,375]

20 hours ago, Guest DrakanFire said:

Is it recommended to switch to KC from AotB when getting T21 2pc as seen on the front page sims? If so, How does this affect other values such as artifacts traits and crucible choices, stats priority ect?

Asking Azor.

[Luthixx 138]

On 12/6/2017 at 5:47 AM, Guest DrakanFire said:

Is it recommended to switch to KC from AotB when getting T21 2pc as seen on the front page sims? If so, How does this affect other values such as artifacts traits and crucible choices, stats priority ect?

Not necessarily - AotB still provides a great amount of Kill Command casts if you have high enough crit. 

If you want to switch over to higher haste and a lot more mastery, plus Dire Frenzy, Killer Cobra and Roar/Huntmaster legendaries because you like that more, feel free to do so. I currently still sim higher with AotB even if I drop half my crit for more mastery and haste, but it is a close sim.

If you were to make the change, your stat priority would just be easily obtained from raidbots.com and you could find your own stat weights specific to your character, and crucible choices/artifact traits would again remain mostly on Jaws of Thunder, much like it is with AotB.

[Guest CrucibleWeight]

BM Crucible Weight export

 

cruweight^128861^238051^7.3^ilvl^1^197139^0.27^252207^0^252091^8^197140^2.7^253111^0^197160^0^252088^8^252875^7.3^197038^3.3^206910^5.3^252191^7.3^252922^3.3^197047^2.1^252906^8^253093^7.3^197138^0^197080^5.3^253070^7.3^252888^6^252799^9.3^197162^6.7^end

[GoKartMozart 0]

On 11/12/2017 at 10:46 PM, Blainie said:

It's an odd build that, in general, does flourish in the early time of Hunters. In very strange setups of stats and gear, it can work incredibly well at high levels too. It's actually the highest parsing build on Sassz'ine, despite 8 of the top parses being Zoo. #1 and #3 are DF.

I currently run the Dire Frenzy build and have simmed myself in all sorts of Legendary combinations both with the Zoo/ AotB builds & DF builds and every time DF sims progressively higher for me.   Being as much as 150-250k higher in sims. 

Stat wise im sitting at roughly:
Crit: 30%

Haste: 15%

Vers: 10%

Mastery: 90%

Granted these values fluctuate as I play with gear combos, but these are the stats i have where I am getting the highest parse in sims. This is with having the t20 4 piece and tier 21 2 piece in all sims.

Edited December 7, 2017 by GoKartMozart

[Guest DrakanFire]

20 hours ago, Luthixx said:

Not necessarily - AotB still provides a great amount of Kill Command casts if you have high enough crit. 

If you want to switch over to higher haste and a lot more mastery, plus Dire Frenzy, Killer Cobra and Roar/Huntmaster legendaries because you like that more, feel free to do so. I currently still sim higher with AotB even if I drop half my crit for more mastery and haste, but it is a close sim.

If you were to make the change, your stat priority would just be easily obtained from raidbots.com and you could find your own stat weights specific to your character, and crucible choices/artifact traits would again remain mostly on Jaws of Thunder, much like it is with AotB.

How does AotB provide a great amount of Kill Commands especially without the leggo boots? 

I still plan using the Stomp build it seems sims are showing to replace T19 2pc when you get Heroic T21 2pc. Azor sims on the front page with Stomp and KIller Cobra with Roar and Soul ring are an example. 

I just wanted to confirm if that’s the go to talent for that tier and see if it changes priorities such as Jaws trait be top relics choices ect. 

Waiting on Azor answer but I’ll continue to sim myself.

[Luthixx 138]

10 hours ago, Guest DrakanFire said:

How does AotB provide a great amount of Kill Commands especially without the leggo boots? 

I still plan using the Stomp build it seems sims are showing to replace T19 2pc when you get Heroic T21 2pc. Azor sims on the front page with Stomp and KIller Cobra with Roar and Soul ring are an example. 

I just wanted to confirm if that’s the go to talent for that tier and see if it changes priorities such as Jaws trait be top relics choices ect. 

Waiting on Azor answer but I’ll continue to sim myself.

It doesn't if you don't have the leggo boots, I was just under the assumption that if you're playing this far into the expansion as BM you would have the boots for that build.

Yes, 2pc H T21 is going to be significantly better than 2pc T19, unless you managed to get really good titanforges.

Jaws will still be the top trait to aim for, and if you sim it you will find that to be the case. Especially if you're going to swap out for Roar and Soul, which focus heavily on your BW windows, meaning you'd want the most out of your KCs.

[Guest DrakanFire]

22 hours ago, Luthixx said:

It doesn't if you don't have the leggo boots, I was just under the assumption that if you're playing this far into the expansion as BM you would have the boots for that build.

Yes, 2pc H T21 is going to be significantly better than 2pc T19, unless you managed to get really good titanforges.

Jaws will still be the top trait to aim for, and if you sim it you will find that to be the case. Especially if you're going to swap out for Roar and Soul, which focus heavily on your BW windows, meaning you'd want the most out of your KCs.

Unfortunately leggo boots are my last BM leggos to get. 

So far my sims tell me Prydaz and Soul are my leggo choices and Killer Cobra edging out AotB by 8k.