Survival Hunter 7.3

[Valks 2,375]

On 1/29/2017 at 7:08 PM, Guest Arctos said:

Frizzo's Fingertrap causes carve to refresh lacerate on single target fights now; if the target is already effected by lacerate, carve basically recasts lacerate, doing carve's damage, the lacerate initial hit, and refreshing the dot.  Is this accounted for in the sims/etc?  Does it change the legendary rankings?

They have been updated to reflect this change already, I believe. Sims have taken this into account since it first showed up on the PTR as far as I know.

[Valks 2,375]

21 hours ago, Guest Tom said:

Why is Guarm Mastery simmed higher than Guarm Haste if haste is your top priority stat and mastery isnt?

From the guide:

Quote

For Survival in particular, it is worth noting that when a simulation has a lot of one stat to start with, statsticks with that stat on it will be devalued somewhat. We recommend simming statstick trinkets for yourself to decide between them.

Hope this helps.

[Guest Arctos]

On 1/31/2017 at 8:54 AM, Blainie said:

They have been updated to reflect this change already, I believe. Sims have taken this into account since it first showed up on the PTR as far as I know.

Mhm, I asked because I wasn't seeing anything in the imported/base APL saying to use carve to maintain lacerate w/frizzo's (instead of just recasting lacerate).

[Valks 2,375]

1 hour ago, Guest Arctos said:

Mhm, I asked because I wasn't seeing anything in the imported/base APL saying to use carve to maintain lacerate w/frizzo's (instead of just recasting lacerate).

This is the fix that added the Lacerate interaction, as far as I know:

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/commit/c46a1c3957428a740d19052e9e78894b18a94e7a

[Reinhilde 1]

On 1/31/2017 at 5:45 AM, Blainie said:

It looks like things have pretty much solidified now and there's loads of WotM users in the top 10s. Not sure if that's as a result of the guide or because it is the best thing, but yeah, I guess that first set is pretty solid. 

As for AMOC/SH/MW, I've put in a note to Azor and we'll see what changes need to be made! 

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/11#class=Hunter&spec=Survival

Mythic logs. The top SV on Skorpyon, for example, has Animal Instincts. As do the #5, 7, and 9.

There's at least one person in every boss that uses Animal Instincts in the top 10. Two of which the top SV for the fight used it. So obviously WotM being the "only viable" talent (as the talent page states) is clearly off.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/11#class=Hunter&spec=Survival&difficulty=4

Heroic Logs. On every fight except 2 of 10, either the #1 or #2 SV uses Animal Instincts.

In both cases, the top survival overall (Velratha) uses Animal Instincts on every fight except Spellblade, where Flanking Strike isn't very reliable.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/11#class=Hunter&spec=Survival&difficulty=3

Normal Logs. There's still some Animal Instincts users, but this is dominated by WotM. This reinforces the idea it's the 2p and 4p that makes Animal Instincts far superior. If you look at the gear of most of the people, they lack the 2p/4p, same with most of the WotM users in Heroic/Mythic.
----

My entire point is the guide states that WotM is the only viable option, but clearly it isn't, when the top SV hunter for heroic runs Animal Instincts, as do many others. It's only in lower tiers where tier gear is still rare that AI isn't taken very often.

The guide really should be updated to mention it's viable, if not preferred, if you have the 2p or 4p. (Not sure which one makes it outperform though, as the diff. SV hunters at the top have different opinions)

And I thank you for passing along the Murder of Crow tier stuff.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Reinhilde

[Guest Whacku]

Is nightmare egg shell a good trinket? I'm trying to gear up my sv and I'm not having any luck getting a BI so I'm looking for one I can farm. I'm not quite at NH level yet either. It's not on the trinket list... I have an 825 one and it feels really strong.

[Valks 2,375]

23 hours ago, Reinhilde said:

The guide really should be updated to mention it's viable, if not preferred, if you have the 2p or 4p. (Not sure which one makes it outperform though, as the diff. SV hunters at the top have different opinions)

And I thank you for passing along the Murder of Crow tier stuff.

I see what you mean, I think I misunderstood slightly what you wanted (thought you meant AI needed to be listed as the top talent over Mok). I'll pass it on again.

As for AMOC, this was Azor's response:

Quote

Snake Hunter will mean more 6-stack Mongoose Fury windows and lets you control when they happen, which ties into the set bonuses and makes it a decent-ish talent choice. Mortal Wounds is just straight suck however.

Should be an update to the guide to reflect that SH can work!

[Valks 2,375]

7 hours ago, Guest Whacku said:

Is nightmare egg shell a good trinket? I'm trying to gear up my sv and I'm not having any luck getting a BI so I'm looking for one I can farm. I'm not quite at NH level yet either. It's not on the trinket list... I have an 825 one and it feels really strong.

It's a fairly decent trinket, but it only procs from auto attacks which kinda sucks. It's way better for dual-wielding classes.

[Guest Legendarys]

I've got a question regarding the legendarys

How comes, that Sephuzs Secret is somehow now a shit legendary, which isn't even listed anymore?

Isn't the haste buff a huge increase to the playstyle overall?

[Valks 2,375]

2 hours ago, Guest Legendarys said:

How comes, that Sephuzs Secret is somehow now a shit legendary, which isn't even listed anymore?

It's not on the rankings because it is no longer usable on boss fights where there are no adds to trigger the proc on. It was previously "bugged" to work for SV Hunter, but has since been fixed. It is still evaluated, but it is pretty poor in raids.

[Guest randomdude]

Hey i just modeled your opener in simc and compared it to the opener of the survival faq.

the opener from the survival faq comes out ontop with like 6% if you switch Crows with Explosion Trap

 

adjust it maybe?

[Valks 2,375]

On 2/4/2017 at 9:07 PM, Guest randomdude said:

adjust it maybe?

It's actually not to do with swapping Crows, it looks like Azor has possibly forgotten to add in Explosive at the start. Will pass it on anyway and find out if it is a mistake/issue and get if fixed. You would still crows after Harpoon, even according to the SV FAQ. 

[Vuda 1]

I don't know if someone noted that earlier, but in Gems, Enchants and Consumables page the recommended gems and enchants are haste, but on Stat Priority page it says "[...]  and because Versatility is much less frequent on gear, that is what you should be gemming and enchanting in almost all cases as well. "

[Valks 2,375]

19 minutes ago, Vuda said:

I don't know if someone noted that earlier, but in Gems, Enchants and Consumables page the recommended gems and enchants are haste, but on Stat Priority page it says "[...]  and because Versatility is much less frequent on gear, that is what you should be gemming and enchanting in almost all cases as well. "

Good catch! Will pass this on and get it clarified/fixed.

[Guest Lathe]

I have a couple questions about BM's The Apex Predator's Claw. Does the 5% damage buff apply to Flanking Strike, and if so, where does it fall in survival's legendary rankings? If used, am I correct in assuming Tenacity is the best spec for a pet?

Also relating to legendaries, if using Nesingwary's Trapping Treads, is using Caltrops on CD recommended (provided I'm not energy capped), or should I still only use it to maintain the DoT?

[Valks 2,375]

6 hours ago, Guest Lathe said:

I have a couple questions about BM's The Apex Predator's Claw. Does the 5% damage buff apply to Flanking Strike, and if so, where does it fall in survival's legendary rankings? If used, am I correct in assuming Tenacity is the best spec for a pet?

Also relating to legendaries, if using Nesingwary's Trapping Treads, is using Caltrops on CD recommended (provided I'm not energy capped), or should I still only use it to maintain the DoT?

Will ask Azor and let you know!

[Valks 2,375]

On 2/14/2017 at 5:10 AM, Guest Lathe said:

I have a couple questions

Responses from Azor:

1. It should apply, but the legendary basically still sucks. It's not great for BM and it's even worse for SV, since it's also a terrible stat stick.
2. If you have absolutely nothing else to spend your energy or global on since everything is under control/need focus, then yes, use it before the DoT expires. If not, don't.

Hope this helps!

[Guest Anon]

What is the reasoning behind 16%mastery guaranteeing 100% MB proc through flanking strike. I understand there is triple the chance with 2pc but that hardly gets to 100%. Is there something I'm missing?

[TalonShadowsong 5]

5 hours ago, Guest Anon said:

What is the reasoning behind 16%mastery guaranteeing 100% MB proc through flanking strike. I understand there is triple the chance with 2pc but that hardly gets to 100%. Is there something I'm missing?

So, perhaps it was unclear before how the Survival 2pc worked, but blizz cleared it up in this tweet:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/834179027019575296

So, with that 16x6 = 96.
That's pretty damn close to 100, considering 17x6 = 102.

So, if we want to nitpick, I suppose the 100% value would be 16.7x6 = 100.2%

Therefore, the 2pc is ridiculous, if you haven't figured that out already. Every 4.5s ish(assuming 10k haste - i dont have it so cant be accurate), you are guaranteed 1 Mongoose Bite. Which means during the 14s Mongoose Bite window you generate 3.11~ stacks from Flanking Strike, which ensures you will always get at least 1 6 stack Mongoose Bite per window.

Edited February 22, 2017 by TalonShadowsong
Added more

[Guest Wyrdhoof]

A very good guide,however i have a question about it.

 

As far as i can count,the current BiS gear set up dont provide the 10% master that you should have?

 

Or am  i missing something?

[Guest Eliazer]

So I can't seem to find this in the guide anymore: do riverbeasts and scorpids still have a chance to proc Mongoose Bite from their mortal strike ability? I know I read it at some point, because I've been toting this hippo around for months for a reason, but was trying to explain it to another hunter friend today and cannot find the citation. Am I insane? Can I use a wolf now?

Also, where does Convergence of Fates stand if you have Call of the Wild? I'd assume they would rocket upwards in that situation for survival, but I don't have the bracers to test it with myself.

[Guest Sacredblaze]

On 27/2/2017 at 2:29 AM, Guest Eliazer said:

So I can't seem to find this in the guide anymore: do riverbeasts and scorpids still have a chance to proc Mongoose Bite from their mortal strike ability? I know I read it at some point, because I've been toting this hippo around for months for a reason, but was trying to explain it to another hunter friend today and cannot find the citation. Am I insane? Can I use a wolf now?

Also, where does Convergence of Fates stand if you have Call of the Wild? I'd assume they would rocket upwards in that situation for survival, but I don't have the bracers to test it with myself.

According to developers, now, all the pets should have the same probabilities of generating a Mangoose Bite charge since they fixed the Mastery. Now it's attached uniquely to pets basic attacks, not abilities (this is why it's now suggested to use the Ferocity pet specialization since one of it's passives increases it's autoattack haste). Thus you can rock any pet you want, although I would suggest you to use, in a raid/dungeon envoriment, either a Crane (for combat res) or a Netheray (for Heroism/Bloodlust), and in a PVP envoriment use any of the Mortal wounds pets (I use myself a Carrion bird). If you are not interested in any of the previous things (or you already have plenty of c-resers and Heroism users like shamans or mages) then you can go with any pet you like.

 

Regarding the Convergence of Fates and Call of the wild combo, I got my Call of the wild last week (f*cking finally), and I actually have the Convergence of Fates (with 890 ilvl). I tested several combinations (in unitarget), using Call of the wild in all of them: 

Kill'jaden + Bloodthirst Instict (890)

Bloodthirst Instict + Convergence of Fates + Nesinwary's Boots

Kill'jaden + Convergence of fates.

My results after several hours of testing are that Bloodthirst Instict is way too valuable to take off, so that becomes a permanent trinket. Now the battle was between Kill'jaden VS Convergence of Fates + Nesinwary's Boots and it seems Kill'jaden outclased that combo in almost every scenario. Not only it has a pretty strong burst but the stats are just too good, and to be honest Convergence of Fates really didn't made much of a difference. AT MOST I got a 15 seconds reduction on Aspect of the Eagle in each cycle, remember, although we Survival are haste maniacs our auto attacks are very, very slow in comparisson to a feral, or a enhancement, or a rogue. This devaluates the power of Convergence of Fates since the CD reduction only comes from auto attacks, not abilities.

TL;DR: My tests said that, regardless you have Call of the Wild or not, if you have both Bloodthirst Instict and Kill'jaden trinkets, go with them instead of Convergence of Fates.

 

Hope I helped you out here buddy, it's always a pleasure to interact with the Survival Community :D

[Guest Eliazer]

On 3/2/2017 at 1:46 PM, Guest Sacredblaze said:

According to developers, now, all the pets should have the same probabilities of generating a Mangoose Bite charge since they fixed the Mastery. Now it's attached uniquely to pets basic attacks, not abilities (this is why it's now suggested to use the Ferocity pet specialization since one of it's passives increases it's autoattack haste). Thus you can rock any pet you want, although I would suggest you to use, in a raid/dungeon envoriment, either a Crane (for combat res) or a Netheray (for Heroism/Bloodlust), and in a PVP envoriment use any of the Mortal wounds pets (I use myself a Carrion bird). If you are not interested in any of the previous things (or you already have plenty of c-resers and Heroism users like shamans or mages) then you can go with any pet you like.

 

Regarding the Convergence of Fates and Call of the wild combo, I got my Call of the wild last week (f*cking finally), and I actually have the Convergence of Fates (with 890 ilvl). I tested several combinations (in unitarget), using Call of the wild in all of them: 

Kill'jaden + Bloodthirst Instict (890)

Bloodthirst Instict + Convergence of Fates + Nesinwary's Boots

Kill'jaden + Convergence of fates.

My results after several hours of testing are that Bloodthirst Instict is way too valuable to take off, so that becomes a permanent trinket. Now the battle was between Kill'jaden VS Convergence of Fates + Nesinwary's Boots and it seems Kill'jaden outclased that combo in almost every scenario. Not only it has a pretty strong burst but the stats are just too good, and to be honest Convergence of Fates really didn't made much of a difference. AT MOST I got a 15 seconds reduction on Aspect of the Eagle in each cycle, remember, although we Survival are haste maniacs our auto attacks are very, very slow in comparisson to a feral, or a enhancement, or a rogue. This devaluates the power of Convergence of Fates since the CD reduction only comes from auto attacks, not abilities.

TL;DR: My tests said that, regardless you have Call of the Wild or not, if you have both Bloodthirst Instict and Kill'jaden trinkets, go with them instead of Convergence of Fates.

 

Hope I helped you out here buddy, it's always a pleasure to interact with the Survival Community :D

This is fabulous info, thank you! Now...I have an 865 BI and an 890 Entwined Elemental Foci...do I need to still be using BI? I have KBW in my second trinket slot. I know the Foci is good, but BI is a guaranteed proc of our very best stat so I'm a little confused, and was curious what you think.

[Guest Sacredblaze]

13 hours ago, Guest Eliazer said:

This is fabulous info, thank you! Now...I have an 865 BI and an 890 Entwined Elemental Foci...do I need to still be using BI? I have KBW in my second trinket slot. I know the Foci is good, but BI is a guaranteed proc of our very best stat so I'm a little confused, and was curious what you think.

It's definetely hard to say.. BI with 865 is low but as you said it's almost a 50% uptime in boss battles of our primary stat. I would check again the SV guide section of trinkets, maybe you can figure out which is better for you. Regardless I always prefer to do personal dummy tests and come out with my personal conclusion. For example, the tests I did showed that Spitting Cobra although generally is stronger than Expert Trapper, it was only about 5 to 10% of damage improvement, with AoE Expert Trapper was much better for sustained AoE fights. Thus I prefer just to roll with Exper Trapper.

 

Speaking about tests I also have the Entwined Elemenfal Foci (with 900 ilvl) and it was no match VS BI (with 890 ilvl), yes the proc was very very strong but I usually got 1 or 2 procs each 2 minutes. Do a 10min test against the dummy with both combinations and see what works better for you ;)

[xardasbot1 0]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/burning-legion/Qúincy/simple

 

i think on 7.2 patch traits i need more critical for new mongose trait 20% critical damage?