Survival Hunter 7.3

[Guest Orconcio]

Hi Azor! Great job with your guide! I do have a question reggarding trinkets. I saw your BiS trinket rating and i do have Stone of elements and Skull of War available. However AskMrRobot is telling me to use Chipped Soul and Mirror Blades trinkets as BiS. So... what do you think it would be the best combination considering these four tinkets?

Thanks in advance!

[Azortharion 62]

Wanna know what AskMrRobot also tells you?

 

[Guest Orconcio]

Good point... so i guess Stone of elements + Skull is the way to go. 

Thanks!

[Guest Fyperia]

Thanks so much for doing all this work. It's been really helpful.

I'm wondering if the T18 set bonuses are worth it? The 2pc seems to be but I feel like the 4pc is making the rotation very clunky.

[Azortharion 62]

The set bonuses are not great, but they are still worth going for.

[Guest Gybter]

Could we see sims for Aspect of the Beast against Expert Trapper? On paper, it seems like Expert Trapper with Improved Traps adds 17.5% attack power per second, whereas Bestial Ferocity adds 22.5% per second. 

[Azortharion 62]

[Guest Veln]

Hey Azor, thanks alot for the guide, very useful. This is a slightly off topic question but just wondering, based on the current state the spec is in now, how well do you think it performs in Legion raiding conetent. I've read alot of people say Surv doesn't scale well later on and it has problems since none of its secondary stats scale directly with any skills damage wise and that mastery especially is a completely wasted stat to have. Is all of this true in your opinion or will Surv do fine?

[Azortharion 62]

"People" have no idea what they are talking about, usually.

 

Survival isn't looking very good. Really mediocre AoE, doesn't make up for it in singletarget.

[Guest Veln]

6 hours ago, Azortharion said:

"People" have no idea what they are talking about, usually.

 

Survival isn't looking very good. Really mediocre AoE, doesn't make up for it in singletarget.

So what they're saying about mastery etc is incorrect but despite that fact Survival is still mediocre at best? Do you think it'll be as useless/uncompetitive as it was in WoD post nerf or is it not that bad?

[Guest Kamiyadori]

11 hours ago, Azortharion said:

"People" have no idea what they are talking about, usually.

 

Survival isn't looking very good. Really mediocre AoE, doesn't make up for it in singletarget.

This one is confusing me a bit since in the guide you say "Strong single-target burst damage is generally considered to be one of the most important traits a spec can have, now and in the future, so it is possible that Survival will be a desirable spec."

Is the way you think really that different from when you wrote the guide?

4 hours ago, Guest Veln said:

So what they're saying about mastery etc is incorrect but despite that fact Survival is still mediocre at best? Do you think it'll be as useless/uncompetitive as it was in WoD post nerf or is it not that bad?

Right now i deal decent 40k-50k but i think it depends heavily on whether or not I'm able to retain the buff with Raptor Strike. AoE could definately be better, but on the other hand, thats where our fire mages shine^^

In my opinion, mastery could scale a little bit better, but on the other hand i get lucky sometimes receiving a lot of mongoose stacks in a row. In legion, with the help of the CDR on Aspect of the Eagle via the Artifact perk and the legendary ring it might work out really well. Also there will be the T19 Set Bonus which also might help out. I'm really looking forward to all that stuff.

 

One ting i wonder though is the T18 Set. Right now i have 2 pieces but as soon as i have the full bonus wonder, wheter spreading Lacerate on different targets or ceeping the debuff on the main target is the better choice DPS wise. Did you test that one, Azor?

 

[Guest Kamiydori]

47 minutes ago, Guest Kamiyadori said:

Right now i deal decent 40k-50k but i think it depends heavily on whether or not I'm able to retain the buff with Raptor Strike. AoE could definately be better, but on the other hand, thats where our fire mages shine^^

Oh, i forgot to mention, my GS is 710 right now with the Survial Hunter :)

(sry for the doublepost)

[Guest Veln]

3 hours ago, Guest Kamiyadori said:

 

Right now i deal decent 40k-50k but i think it depends heavily on whether or not I'm able to retain the buff with Raptor Strike. AoE could definately be better, but on the other hand, thats where our fire mages shine^^

 

I too am playing Survival in pre patch so I know what the numbers are like, I haven't however played Survival in Legion beta which is why I'm asking Azor about it. There are so many variables and differences to take into account between pre patch and Legion beta, that current dps is almost completely irrelevant. When you factor in the new Artifact skill, all of the artifact talents, some of the legendaries, set bonuses and just how much other classes are going to change as well, there's not point even thinking about DPS now vs Legion.

[Azortharion 62]

Survival in the prepatch is much stronger than it will probably be in Legion since the artifacts for the other two specs are much better, but yeah if I were rewriting the guide I'd probably talk about Survival a little differently now that we're much closer to the expansion.

 

It won't be as useless as before prepatch. It'll probably be like the equivalent of playing Beast Mastery hunter in HFC before the prepatch, probably a bit better. So there is a spot for it, just maybe not in the top like.. 500.

 

Mastery is a pretty terrible stat which doesn't help it gearing up. It's a terrible stat. The worst stat for the other two specs is still quite good, not the case for Survival.

 

Best way to play the 2pc is to cycle it on different targets when possible, and always using it on cooldown.

[VictorVakaras 83]

On 8/9/2016 at 4:23 PM, Azortharion said:

Survival in the prepatch is much stronger than it will probably be in Legion since the artifacts for the other two specs are much better, but yeah if I were rewriting the guide I'd probably talk about Survival a little differently now that we're much closer to the expansion.

 

It won't be as useless as before prepatch. It'll probably be like the equivalent of playing Beast Mastery hunter in HFC before the prepatch, probably a bit better. So there is a spot for it, just maybe not in the top like.. 500.

 

Mastery is a pretty terrible stat which doesn't help it gearing up. It's a terrible stat. The worst stat for the other two specs is still quite good, not the case for Survival.

 

Best way to play the 2pc is to cycle it on different targets when possible, and always using it on cooldown.

The effect mastery has on the pet was doubled recently, I wonder if that changes things.

[GalloViking 2]

4 hours ago, VictorVakaras said:

The effect mastery has on the pet was doubled recently, I wonder if that changes things.

I don't think that it does. Mastery isn't bad because it doesn't proc often, it's bad because the mangoose strike mechanism itself is bad.

Mastery would be viable if it increased the duration AND would restore charge more often.

[Azortharion 62]

The combined buffs makes Survival about as good as the other specs on a single-target, but it's still worse than the other specs at everything else, and has the disadvantage of being melee as well. Bit better, but my post still pretty much applies.

Mastery is still only a mediocre stat. How good it is hugely depends on how much of it you have.

[GalloViking 2]

On 17/08/2016 at 9:54 PM, Azortharion said:

The combined buffs makes Survival about as good as the other specs on a single-target, but it's still worse than the other specs at everything else, and has the disadvantage of being melee as well. Bit better, but my post still pretty much applies.

Mastery is still only a mediocre stat. How good it is hugely depends on how much of it you have.

Is melee really a disadvantage? The harpoon is very effective to gap close and the grenade (talent) combined with fire trap are also good dots for aoe encounters.

[Azortharion 62]

Melee is a disadvantage when the ranged specs are so good.

[GalloViking 2]

On 19/08/2016 at 3:40 AM, Azortharion said:

Melee is a disadvantage when the ranged specs are so good.

That's true on paper, but as far as I can tell I always have a better dps as a survival than other hunter specs when I go in a raid. Maybe they just don't know how to play? :/

But hey, can't really tell without the artifact weapon and lvl 110... It's just prepatch and things will probably change one or two times before Legion launches.

Also, small edit.

About the consumables, it might be worth mentionning that Pandaren race can get in Ashran (from one of the PvP vendors) a food called "Pre-Mixed pot of Noodles" that gives a massive +292 Versatility, that becomes a +584 with racial. It only costs 2g50s for 5 of them.

Edited August 20, 2016 by GalloViking

[Guest Not that Tauren]

Hello. Great guide but your artifact trait path, going to hellcarver instead of sharpened fang, is it because you were also considering the artifact power needed to get to the next trait? 

[Azortharion 62]

Direct quote from guide.

 

" Whilst this path does initially skip on some single-target traits like  Sharpened Fang at first, the pursuit of the powerful golden traits as quickly as possible makes this worth it. "

[Guest Cris]

Not sure why AOE is listed as a con. Perhaps the guide was before Legion, but with Explosive Trap, Dragonfire Grenade and the artifact ability, on top of Carve, SV aoe is in a really good spot.

[Azortharion 62]

The guide is post-Legion and Survival AoE is decent at best and lackluster at worst. Most of the time, it's lackluster considering 2/3 of the abilities you mentioned are on a 30+ second cooldown, and Carve does extremely low damage.

[Guest VeritasLuxMea]

3 hours ago, Azortharion said:

The guide is post-Legion and Survival AoE is decent at best and lackluster at worst. Most of the time, it's lackluster considering 2/3 of the abilities you mentioned are on a 30+ second cooldown, and Carve does extremely low damage.

My experiences in Mythic dungeons up to this point seem to run contrary to this notion. Fury of the Eagle is available for just about every large trash pull, as are dragonsfire grenade and explosive trap. Though, I suppose this could ring false in Mythic+, where mobs have significantly more health, and there is virtually no downtime between pulls.  

I understand that in a Mythic raiding environment where there is already fierce competition for limited melee spots, Survival is not really an option for most Hunters. However, from what I have experienced so far on live, Survival excels in many areas (including burst AoE) and is a perfectly viable, if not above average spec for both dungeons and raids.  

I would also add that missing from your guide is any information regarding the current implementation of Hunting Companion, namely the fact that Thunderstomp has a chance to proc Hunting Companion once for each target hit, and that Pet Class specific abilities such as the Carrion Bird's Bloody Screech have a chance to proc Hunting Companion as well. Thus making Tenacity Spec Carrion Birds superior pet choices for Survival.